Vaccine/Antibody updates

[Warriors4ever]

Dr.Murphy from Northwestern on the radio right now says that they are waiting two months after the last participant got the second dose.

[rocky_warrior]

Apologies for being lazy and not looking it up myself.  How is the 90% calculated?  Is it that 90% less trial participants have contracted covid than a similar representative control group?  Or 90% more show antibodies?   Just curious.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Apologies for being lazy and not looking it up myself.  How is the 90% calculated?  Is it that 90% less trial participants have contracted covid than a similar representative control group?  Or 90% more show antibodies?   Just curious.

Here is a link from the NIH, but I'm not smart enough to read it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7361120/

[Jockey]

The article I read said they wanted 2 more months of data. I think it was partially inaccurate (likely journalist mis-stating aspects of an interview), in that they need a minimum of 2-months of safety data. Looks to be on track for initial use by late December.

I saw it the same way. There are 2 main questions with a vaccine. Does it work? Is it safe?

The first is the easiest to answer and the news is good. The second requires time. Even then, safety is not a certainty. As we have seen with many drugs over the years - they appear to be safe, until they aren't. Two months is not long enough to determine if there are long-term affects, but the trade-off is probably worth it in this case because of the rate at which people are dying.

[rocky_warrior]

Here is a link from the NIH, but I'm not smart enough to read it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7361120/

Hah.  I can read it, but I don't understand it!  Fine, I searched myself, the CDC has a easier-to-understand answer:
https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson3/section6.html

"So a VE of 90% indicates a 90% reduction in disease occurrence among the vaccinated group, or a 90% reduction from the number of cases you would expect if they have not been vaccinated."

[GooooMarquette]

If I were to bet, from here forward shut-downs are going to be dictated at the local and state level and will be based on hospital stress.  Also, we know more about what needs to close, so more targeted versus blanket.

Like this:

https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/gov-herbert-declares-new-state-of-emergency-to-address-hospital-overcrowding-case-surge

Also notice who was referenced as providing advice from the the Feds.

All this news makes the Scott Atlas experiment look really silly...

I have a feeling more and more state and local officials will be listening directly to Fauci, Birx and Redfield, and simply ignoring the background noise from the White House.

I also suspect that if any of them get fired by POTUS for speaking up (a very real possibility), Biden will scoop them up and put them on his task force.

[wadesworld]

I have a feeling more and more state and local officials will be listening directly to Fauci, Birx and Redfield, and simply ignoring the background noise from the White House.

I also suspect that if any of them get fired by POTUS for speaking up (a very real possibility), Biden will scoop them up and put them on his task force.

I'm hoping Biden will put whoever he feels can best perform the job, and not just take someone to spite Donald Trump.

[GooooMarquette]

I'm hoping Biden will put whoever he feels can best perform the job, and not just take someone to spite Donald Trump.

Agreed. But they have been in the midst of this since the beginning, so it's hard to imagine many people who would be more qualified. Fauci and Birx in particular have unparalleled credentials and experience. Redfield perhaps a little less so, but his time at the top of CDC would at least have made him privy to information that hardly anyone else would have.

Perhaps another way to say the same thing - IMO, they would be the most qualified people if they suddenly became available.

[Jockey]

A question for the experts here.

Obviously there is promising news from Pfizer. The bad news is that their vaccine requires cold storage - up to 100 degrees below zero.

My question is - do we have the capability to do this on a large scale? It would seem to preclude giving the vaccine at a doctor's office. I don't know that Walgreens or CVS have the capability for storage on the scale that is needed.

[The Sultan]

From what I read, they have developed special cold storage containers to get the vaccine though the distribution process.

[rocky_warrior]

We?

Sounds like Pfizer is planning on doing it themselves:
https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/pfizer-sidelines-us-government-covid-19-vaccine-distribution-plan-favor-its-own-reports

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/pfizer-designed-new-container-and-plans-to-tap-shipping-companies-for-covid-19

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

We?

Sounds like Pfizer is planning on doing it themselves:
https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/pfizer-sidelines-us-government-covid-19-vaccine-distribution-plan-favor-its-own-reports

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/pfizer-designed-new-container-and-plans-to-tap-shipping-companies-for-covid-19

Pfizer has been really overt about pointing out that they are doing their own thing separate from OWS today.  I wonder why.

[Jockey]

Pfizer has been really overt about pointing out that they are doing their own thing separate from OWS today.  I wonder why.

They did not take money from the US government if I remember correctly. They were not a part of Warp Speed despite what Pence claimed today.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[GooooMarquette]

Pfizer has been really overt about pointing out that they are doing their own thing separate from OWS today.  I wonder why.

Because the WH has been really overt about (erroneously) claiming that Pifzer's project was funded by OWS, and Pfizer wants full credit for their efforts.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-celebrates-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-but-government-didnt-fund-2020-11

"We were never part of the Warp Speed," Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president and the head of vaccine research and development at Pfizer, told The New York Times. "We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone."

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla in September told CBS News' Margaret Brennan that the company was taking somewhat of a risk by not taking taxpayer money to help with the vaccine, but that it wouldn't "break" the pharmaceutical giant.

"I wanted to liberate our scientists from any bureaucracy," Bourla said. "When you get money from someone, that always comes with strings. They want to see how we are growing to progress, what types of moves you are going to do. They want reports. I didn't want to have any of that."

[forgetful]

A question for the experts here.

Obviously there is promising news from Pfizer. The bad news is that their vaccine requires cold storage - up to 100 degrees below zero.

My question is - do we have the capability to do this on a large scale? It would seem to preclude giving the vaccine at a doctor's office. I don't know that Walgreens or CVS have the capability for storage on the scale that is needed.

Although non-trivial, there are ways to get this to work. My lab alone, probably has enough storage for 10k-20k doses or more (depending on size).

In other areas, there are alternatives that can be designed. For instance, a storage container surrounded by dry-ice and isopropanol (isopropyl-alcohol), will maintain a temperature cold enough, and can be resupplied with more dry-ice.

And Pfizer has a lot of really bright people working on this exact issue for awhile. Off the top of my head, I can come up with about a dozen possible strategies, that given an engineering team and a modest budget and I'm pretty confident I could come up with something that would work. That's just me, who doesn't do logistics for a living. Pfizer has teams of people that have done this a lifetime.

[The Sultan]

They did not take money from the US government if I remember correctly. They were not a part of Warp Speed despite what Pence claimed today.

Correct me if I am wrong.

They have not taken money from Warp Speed to help develop the vaccine.

However, they are part of Warp Speed's purchase program.  The US will buy 100 million doses of an effective vaccine for nearly $2 billion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine.html

So Pence isn't 100% wrong when he says they are part of OWS, but federal money had no bearing on the development of the vaccine.

[forgetful]

They have not taken money from Warp Speed to help develop the vaccine.

However, they are part of Warp Speed's purchase program.  The US will buy 100 million doses of an effective vaccine for nearly $2 billion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/health/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine.html

So Pence isn't 100% wrong when he says they are part of OWS, but federal money had no bearing on the development of the vaccine.

Pence said this was the result of their unprecedented public-private partnership. That is false. It was done without government funds or direction.

If someone wants to give a president credit. First credit goes to George Bush, who created the initiative to greatly expand vaccine technology that directly led to the methodologies used here. Second credit goes to Obama, who expanded that initiative.

Without them, the decades+ of research that allowed this to be done at all, and also as quickly as it was, would be non-existent.

[GooooMarquette]

Pence said this was the result of their unprecedented public-private partnership. That is false. It was done without government funds or direction.

If someone wants to give a president credit. First credit goes to George Bush, who created the initiative to greatly expand vaccine technology that directly led to the methodologies used here. Second credit goes to Obama, who expanded that initiative.

Without them, the decades+ of research that allowed this to be done at all, and also as quickly as it was, would be non-existent.

Yep.

Taking credit for a public/private partnership that didn't exist is just par for the course for this Administration.

[Jockey]

Although non-trivial, there are ways to get this to work. My lab alone, probably has enough storage for 10k-20k doses or more (depending on size).

In other areas, there are alternatives that can be designed. For instance, a storage container surrounded by dry-ice and isopropanol (isopropyl-alcohol), will maintain a temperature cold enough, and can be resupplied with more dry-ice.

And Pfizer has a lot of really bright people working on this exact issue for awhile. Off the top of my head, I can come up with about a dozen possible strategies, that given an engineering team and a modest budget and I'm pretty confident I could come up with something that would work. That's just me, who doesn't do logistics for a living. Pfizer has teams of people that have done this a lifetime.

Thanks, man. That is the type of answer I was looking for.

[MU82]

Potentially life-saving news here ...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/11/09/world/covid-19-coronavirus-live-updates?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201109&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=44072&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa#the-fda-gave-emergency-approval-to-eli-lillys-antibody-treatment

The Food and Drug Administration has granted emergency authorization of a Covid-19 treatment made by Eli Lilly that was given to Chris Christie, the former New Jersey governor, when he was infected with the coronavirus.

The decision, announced on Monday by the agency, applies only to people newly infected with the virus, and came with a warning that it should not be used in hospitalized patients. The treatment is approved for people 12 and older, who have tested positive, and who are at risk for developing a severe form of Covid-19 or being hospitalized for the condition. That includes people who are over 65 and obese, the agency said — a key group that early studies have shown can benefit the most from the treatment.

Eli Lilly said that its treatment, called bamlanivimab, should be administered as soon as possible after a positive test, and within 10 days of developing symptoms.

[Warriors4ever]

It comes with a warning that it shouldn't be used in hospitalized patients? Wasn't Christie hospitalized when he got it?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Pfizer has been really overt about pointing out that they are doing their own thing separate from OWS today.  I wonder why.

I read this decision was an attempt to distance itself from the potential politics and maximize the number of people willing to take the vaccine, if successful.  Not pointed out to say they didn't benefit from the govt infrastructure that has been helping to speed trials and pre buying doses. 

[Skatastrophy]

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-coronavirus-drug-vaccine-status/

Bloomberg with a solid graphic updating us on where all these companies are with their vaccine candidates. Nice to see graphically because this has all been a bit much to keep straight.

[Uncle Rico]

I read this decision was an attempt to distance itself from the potential politics and maximize the number of people willing to take the vaccine, if successful.  Not pointed out to say they didn't benefit from the govt infrastructure that has been helping to speed trials and pre buying doses.

Had two people tell me yesterday they won't take it

[cheebs09]

Had two people tell me yesterday they won't take it

Did they give a reason? It seems to be far enough removed from the government that a substandard vaccine isn't being approved for political reasons.