collapse

* Stud of Colorado Game

Tyler Kolek

21 points, 5 rebounds,
11 assists, 1 steal,
40 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: NC State

Marquette
81
Marquette vs

NC State

Date/Time: Mar 29, 2024, 6:09 pm
TV: CBS
Schedule for 2023-24
Colorado
77

Author Topic: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?  (Read 23572 times)

cheebs09

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4516
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #100 on: May 10, 2021, 12:47:29 PM »
Obviously, I’m overstating it.  But that’s not really any different than Jose Perez (for example) being on a car commercial or whatever on whatever platforms or media.  I think NIL stuff is nonsense for the most part.  Now, if one is talking about an SA being able to make money coaching basketball skills (for example again) at a camp I’m far more agreeable since that involves actual work for pay as opposed to making endorsements that no one cares about or will even consider to be valid.

Who determines what’s valid? I think if the company feels it’s worth it to pay a player for their endorsement, that seems valid.

I can see Gatorade paying Markus Howard to drink their drink in his Instagram story. Or Nike paying them to wear a certain type of sweats. That happens for more college students that aren’t athletes than we probably realize.

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11512
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #101 on: May 10, 2021, 12:57:21 PM »
Obviously, I’m overstating it.  But that’s not really any different than Jose Perez (for example) being on a car commercial or whatever on whatever platforms or media.  I think NIL stuff is nonsense for the most part.  Now, if one is talking about an SA being able to make money coaching basketball skills (for example again) at a camp I’m far more agreeable since that involves actual work for pay as opposed to making endorsements that no one cares about or will even consider to be valid.


If your goal is to come off old and out of touch, congrats.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Shooter McGavin

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2678
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #102 on: May 10, 2021, 01:02:00 PM »
Again, Shooter, getting something of value is not the same as  “making money.”

But yes, a college education can be a means toward making money eventually.

Oh I get it.  In the Greg Brady literal sense they are not receiving cash.  It’s just saving their parents or themselves more cash than many people even have.  Hell, maybe even more than the value of their homes.  And it has the added benefit of setting them up for basketball and life without a ton of debt.   

Minus the hyperbole of these poor athletes getting peanuts, you are correct.

Nukem2

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4973
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #103 on: May 10, 2021, 01:10:05 PM »

If your goal is to come off old and out of touch, congrats.
Whatever. Fluffy, what  examples are appropriate for you that are not simply handouts  or inducements from boosters.  Let’s be real here and what limits by the NCAA would be reasonable to you.  Or do you favor huge payments for phony endorsements or whatever to the more elite SAs in FB and BB while the vast majority of SAs get no real benefit.  In short, how do you see it playing out in practice in the real world. 

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11512
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #104 on: May 10, 2021, 01:16:04 PM »
I don't really care if a SA gets a "phoney endorsement deal" that is simply an inducement from boosters.  And yes, the more elite players will get larger benefits.  Kind of like real life. 

Again, there has been growing revenue gaps between have and have not programs for years.  Marquette can afford to buy out one seven figure coach, and turn right around and hire another due to the generosity of its donors and the Fox contract that membership in the Big East affords.

So schools and coaches benefit from a free market enterprise - but somehow student athletes should not?  Seems kinda unamerican to me.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2021, 01:20:13 PM »
Oh I get it.  In the Greg Brady literal sense they are not receiving cash.  It’s just saving their parents or themselves more cash than many people even have.

This isn't true for all. This is only true if the student-athlete was planning on going to college regardless of basketball (or whatever sport). Otherwise it's adding a cost that they weren't going to pay for and then taking that cost away while getting the benefit (assuming the university actually provides the promised education).
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22723
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #106 on: May 10, 2021, 01:20:57 PM »
American college sports fans tend to be big-time capitalists ... except when it comes to an athlete’s ability to share in the capitalism.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

StillAWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4205
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #107 on: May 10, 2021, 01:22:14 PM »
Who determines what’s valid? I think if the company feels it’s worth it to pay a player for their endorsement, that seems valid.

I can see Gatorade paying Markus Howard to drink their drink in his Instagram story. Or Nike paying them to wear a certain type of sweats. That happens for more college students that aren’t athletes than we probably realize.

I'm no particular fan of the NCAA, but I suspect that they will end up trying to be the arbiter of what is valid and what is not. Maybe the floodgates will be completely opened or maybe there will be some limitations. Currently, SAs can have jobs and work, but they cannot get paid more than someone else would be paid. It would not surprise me if the NCAA tries to have some sort of a similar concept in the NIL context where they try to impose some sort of "commercially viable" standard. Nike could pay someone a ton and that would be commercially viable. Same with Gatorade. Local car dealers, restaurants, message boards, etc. could also pay kids...but probably couldn't justify as much. This could be used as an attempt to limit some booster from forming an LLC and just paying a kid $1 million to attend their alma mater. There would have to be some expectation of a return on the marketing investment.

I'm not advocating this -- and I do think it would open up a can of worms -- but I will not be surprised if there is a push to have this sort of limits on what can be done as an attempt to avoid simply allowing rich boosters to pay athletes whatever they want.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 01:24:06 PM by StillAWarrior »
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #108 on: May 10, 2021, 01:29:52 PM »
Whatever. Fluffy, what  examples are appropriate for you that are not simply handouts  or inducements from boosters.  Let’s be real here and what limits by the NCAA would be reasonable to you.  Or do you favor huge payments for phony endorsements or whatever to the more elite SAs in FB and BB while the vast majority of SAs get no real benefit.  In short, how do you see it playing out in practice in the real world.

I expect to play out just like allowing student athletes to have employment has. Before that change was made, there was fear that boosters would create bogus internships where recruits get paid millions to sit on their a$$es and do nothing in exchange for going to the school of the booster's choice. Instead, the NCAA put limits on it and I can't think of a single allegation of boosters funneling money to recruits through fake jobs.

NIL will be harder to regulate for sure, but honestly I don't foresee the rampant booster donations that some seem to be predicting. Choosing a student-athlete for an endorsement carries a large reputational risk for the endorsee. I think you will see a lot more of students getting paid marginal amounts for social media influencing, video games, skills camps, etc, then you will massive endorsement deals.
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


StillAWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4205
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #109 on: May 10, 2021, 01:36:03 PM »
I expect to play out just like allowing student athletes to have employment has. Before that change was made, there was fear that boosters would create bogus internships where recruits get paid millions to sit on their a$$es and do nothing in exchange for going to the school of the booster's choice. Instead, the NCAA put limits on it and I can't think of a single allegation of boosters funneling money to recruits through fake jobs.

NIL will be harder to regulate for sure, but honestly I don't foresee the rampant booster donations that some seem to be predicting. Choosing a student-athlete for an endorsement carries a large reputational risk for the endorsee. I think you will see a lot more of students getting paid marginal amounts for social media influencing, video games, skills camps, etc, then you will massive endorsement deals.

I agree.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Nukem2

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4973
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #110 on: May 10, 2021, 01:38:08 PM »
I expect to play out just like allowing student athletes to have employment has. Before that change was made, there was fear that boosters would create bogus internships where recruits get paid millions to sit on their a$$es and do nothing in exchange for going to the school of the booster's choice. Instead, the NCAA put limits on it and I can't think of a single allegation of boosters funneling money to recruits through fake jobs.

NIL will be harder to regulate for sure, but honestly I don't foresee the rampant booster donations that some seem to be predicting. Choosing a student-athlete for an endorsement carries a large reputational risk for the endorsee. I think you will see a lot more of students getting paid marginal amounts for social media influencing, video games, skills camps, etc, then you will massive endorsement deals.
Thats much what I’m suggesting.  Some small numbers of the vast majority might benefit marginally while the elite Div I athletes get “paid” for their short stays in college.  Weird outcome in the name of fairness for all SAs.

cheebs09

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4516
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #111 on: May 10, 2021, 01:39:58 PM »
Thats much what I’m suggesting.  Some small numbers of the vast majority might benefit marginally while the elite Div I athletes get “paid” for their short stays in college.  Weird outcome in the name of fairness for all SAs.

So pretty much what happens now, but legal?

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11512
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #112 on: May 10, 2021, 01:40:43 PM »
Thats much what I’m suggesting.  Some small numbers of the vast majority might benefit marginally while the elite Div I athletes get “paid” for their short stays in college.  Weird outcome in the name of fairness for all SAs.

Apparently Nukem is a Marxist.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Nukem2

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4973
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #113 on: May 10, 2021, 01:43:16 PM »
So pretty much what happens now, but legal?
Probably far more of it it though when on a “legal” basis. 

StillAWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4205
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #114 on: May 10, 2021, 01:44:53 PM »
Thats much what I’m suggesting.  Some small numbers of the vast majority might benefit marginally while the elite Div I athletes get “paid” for their short stays in college.  Weird outcome in the name of fairness for all SAs.

I have no problem with that outcome in theory. I'm not entirely sure I trust the NCAA to administer it.

As someone who has benefitted from the current system, I am still totally in favor of these kids being permitted to benefit from the use of their NIL. I think some will do quite well if that happens. I suspect that quite a lot will make more than I expect. But I think most of the kids will not get much or anything. I think that what will be demonstrated is what I've said for quite a while -- there aren't all that many kids who really "move the needle." I honestly don't think it will change things all that much for the overwhelming majority of SAs.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Nukem2

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4973
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #115 on: May 10, 2021, 01:57:58 PM »
I have no problem with that outcome in theory. I'm not entirely sure I trust the NCAA to administer it.

As someone who has benefitted from the current system, I am still totally in favor of these kids being permitted to benefit from the use of their NIL. I think some will do quite well if that happens. I suspect that quite a lot will make more than I expect. But I think most of the kids will not get much or anything. I think that what will be demonstrated is what I've said for quite a while -- there aren't all that many kids who really "move the needle." I honestly don't think it will change things all that much for the overwhelming majority of SAs.
I suppose some might find creative ways to make $$ via various social media and other platforms, but not many will  “move the needle” as you say.  In the meantime, some of the more elite Div I FB and BB players may find it more lucrative to stay in college for a year or two more.
 But, we need to be fair to all.

cheebs09

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4516
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #116 on: May 10, 2021, 02:00:21 PM »
I suppose some might find creative ways to make $$ via various social media and other platforms, but not many will  “move the needle” as you say.  In the meantime, some of the more elite Div I FB and BB players may find it more lucrative to stay in college for a year or two more.
 But, we need to be fair to all.

Isn’t this more fair? I’m sure some kids are passing up money because it’s against NCAA rules.

I think it’s fair. Every person has a chance to profit off their NIL. However, just like anything, how much you profit depends on the value you provide.

StillAWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4205
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #117 on: May 10, 2021, 02:03:43 PM »
I suppose some might find creative ways to make $$ via various social media and other platforms, but not many will  “move the needle” as you say.  In the meantime, some of the more elite Div I FB and BB players may find it more lucrative to stay in college for a year or two more.
 But, we need to be fair to all.

Well, there's the rub, right? What is "fair to all"? Personally, I think it's more fair to allow kids who actually can "move the needle" get paid than to deny them that. I think that a large majority of SAs -- even in the revenue sports -- are not going to get much if anything beyond their scholarship. And that's because nobody is really turning out or tuning in to see them. Most fans are fans of the program and don't really have all that much of a rooting interest in the individual players. I have no problem with those kids not getting paid -- or getting small NIL payments. But the kids who really do have their own fans and following...I just don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to exploit that following and get paid.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22723
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #118 on: May 10, 2021, 02:12:15 PM »
I expect to play out just like allowing student athletes to have employment has. Before that change was made, there was fear that boosters would create bogus internships where recruits get paid millions to sit on their a$$es and do nothing in exchange for going to the school of the booster's choice. Instead, the NCAA put limits on it and I can't think of a single allegation of boosters funneling money to recruits through fake jobs.

NIL will be harder to regulate for sure, but honestly I don't foresee the rampant booster donations that some seem to be predicting. Choosing a student-athlete for an endorsement carries a large reputational risk for the endorsee. I think you will see a lot more of students getting paid marginal amounts for social media influencing, video games, skills camps, etc, then you will massive endorsement deals.

This, of course.

I suppose some might find creative ways to make $$ via various social media and other platforms, but not many will  “move the needle” as you say.  In the meantime, some of the more elite Div I FB and BB players may find it more lucrative to stay in college for a year or two more.
 But, we need to be fair to all.

I am far too lazy to look for it, but articles have been posted at least a couple of times on Scoop in which experts on this kind of thing have shown that a variety of non-football and non-basketball athletes would do surprisingly well. IIRC, "Olympic sports" athletes such as gymnasts, swimmers, volleyball players, and track athletes would do especially well, as would many women's basketball players.

But I guess we won't see for sure until what should have happened decades ago -- letting the athletes share in the wealth of a system that wouldn't exist without them -- actually happens.

I'm looking forward to it!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Billy Hoyle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2660
  • Retire #34
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #119 on: May 10, 2021, 02:18:14 PM »
Getting a full ride -- which at many colleges and universities is worth far less than $200K -- is not the same as "raking in money."

Schools are raking in money. Athletic directors are raking in money. Coaches are really raking in money. Lots of assistant coaches are raking in money. All of the above individuals actually have good money direct-deposited into their checking accounts at regular intervals. And they get to market themselves. And there is no cap on what they can earn. And they can profit off their own NILs if they so choose.

At the end of four years, under current rules, a basketball or football player at any of those schools will have not raked in money unless the coach cheated. Indeed, he would have made very close to zero dollars -- relative peanuts. It's easy to see why the schools, ADs and coaches have loved the system since the dawn of big-time sports -- they have raked in money, the athletes who have worked their arses off have raked in bupkis.

Now, has the athlete received something of value, something that he could parlay into future earnings? Certainly. But again, that's not the same as "raking in money."

At Michigan, or Ohio State, or Texas, sure. But at Northern Illinois? An HBCU? Monmouth? Those schools are not "raking in money" from athletes, and their coaches and administrators are not making millions while kids are getting $200K plus of scholarships, gear, and other benefits. AD's know this is going to tilt the balance of power even more than it is now. Kids are asking about NIL during recruiting. One call I was on regarding the subject, Miami's rep said establishing a department to market SA's social media profiles and brand is more important than having academic advisors.

I expect to play out just like allowing student athletes to have employment has. Before that change was made, there was fear that boosters would create bogus internships where recruits get paid millions to sit on their a$$es and do nothing in exchange for going to the school of the booster's choice. Instead, the NCAA put limits on it and I can't think of a single allegation of boosters funneling money to recruits through fake jobs.


they're still out there, but it's up to the school to enforce it and many look the other way or it's done under the table.  The easiest job in college sports is compliance officer in the SEC or Big 12.
“You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked.”

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22056
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #120 on: May 10, 2021, 02:22:20 PM »
Thats much what I’m suggesting.  Some small numbers of the vast majority might benefit marginally

I actually think the vast majority of the vast majority will benefit marginally. Which is better than not benefitting.

Weird outcome in the name of fairness for all SAs.

How is everyone getting the opportunity to make money less fair?
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Nukem2

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4973
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #121 on: May 10, 2021, 02:48:09 PM »
I actually think the vast majority of the vast majority will benefit marginally. Which is better than not benefitting.

How is everyone getting the opportunity to make money less fair?
As I said, the weird outcome is likely to be that the elite athletes will benefit far far more.  In any event, this is all about to happen whether the NCAA  and member schools like it or not.  Game just about on.

StillAWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4205
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #122 on: May 10, 2021, 03:17:35 PM »
As I said, the weird outcome is likely to be that the elite athletes will benefit far far more.

I think some of the confusion is why you think that is weird. That's what I'd expect. What's more, I think it's the most fair. I've generally been against paying the athletes because many of them are not really bringing more to the table than whoever would have had that scholarship if they'd decided to commit to another school. I think that paying those athletes -- even if the program is losing money -- doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But if athletes are able to market their NIL, more power to them.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Nukem2

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4973
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #123 on: May 10, 2021, 03:31:35 PM »
I think some of the confusion is why you think that is weird. That's what I'd expect. What's more, I think it's the most fair. I've generally been against paying the athletes because many of them are not really bringing more to the table than whoever would have had that scholarship if they'd decided to commit to another school. I think that paying those athletes -- even if the program is losing money -- doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But if athletes are able to market their NIL, more power to them.
But, I don’t think that’s where the proponents of NIL legislation in various states are coming from or expect.  They believe they are helping the little guy and that they look like the good guy in the eyes of their electorates.   That’s what makes it weird.  The “rich” get richer.

StillAWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4205
Re: How Much Is NIL Worth To Student Athletes?
« Reply #124 on: May 10, 2021, 03:43:13 PM »
But, I don’t think that’s where the proponents of NIL legislation in various states are coming from or expect.  They believe they are helping the little guy and that they look like the good guy in the eyes of their electorates.   That’s what makes it weird.  The “rich” get richer.

"Little" is a relative term. I think NIL helps the "little guy" when you figure Zion Williamson and Trevor Lawrence are the "little guys" as compared to Duke Basketball and Clemson Football. And some money will spread around at lower levels, I think. If anyone is presenting NIL as evening the playing field between superstars in revenue sports and role players or SAs in non-revenue sports, I haven't heard that. I'm not saying people aren't saying that; it's quite possible they are (and wouldn't be the first or the last time a completely unrealistic reason is given for something).

But if we're talking "little guys" like the third string OG or a tennis player or something similar as compared to the superstars...yeah...those "little guys" are not going to do as well under NIL. But, like some have said, I that there will be some surprises out there on who does well. I'd imagine a VB player in Nebraska or a wrestler in Iowa will be able to earn some money.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.