Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package

[Pakuni]

Probably nothing.  I just have a personal problem with religious organizations not paying taxes.  I probably knee jerked a bit. 

My tax dollars already subsidize churches enough... I'd rather the money went to small businesses rather than religious orgs.  When you guys pointed out to me that the money goes into employee pockets and not the overreaching organization... I backed off.  I was wrong.  I hope I've cleared this up. 

Two rosaries and four 'Our Fathers' and all will be forgiven.

[Jockey]

trump attempting to line his pockets in new stimulus bill.

Ain't gonna happen. Trump.

[shoothoops]

Texas man buys Lamborghini with COVID-19 relief money. Florida man did the same:

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1290865124178366465?s=19

[The Sultan]

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/09/900675086/a-national-lockdown-could-be-the-economys-best-hope-says-minneapolis-fed-preside

Minneapolis Fed Chief believes that a nationwide six week lockdown might be the best thing for the economy.

Should have done this June 15.

[GB Warrior]

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/09/900675086/a-national-lockdown-could-be-the-economys-best-hope-says-minneapolis-fed-preside

Minneapolis Fed Chief believes that a nationwide six week lockdown might be the best thing for the economy.

Should have done this June 15.

Would have been cheaper to support, too.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/09/900675086/a-national-lockdown-could-be-the-economys-best-hope-says-minneapolis-fed-preside

Minneapolis Fed Chief believes that a nationwide six week lockdown might be the best thing for the economy.

Should have done this June 15.

Should have done March 15.  Complete incompetence at the top.

[Hards Alumni]

Should have done March 15.  Complete incompetence at the top.

YUP

[pacearrow02]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/08/13/recession-is-over-rich-working-class-is-far-recovered/#click=https://t.co/csGZqYefLN

[MU82]

(To quote the late, great Richard Dawson) ... Survey says ...

https://www.nber.org/papers/w27693?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20200821&instance_id=21487&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=36692&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa&utm_campaign=ntwh&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntwg13

Using a large-scale survey of U.S. consumers, we study how the large one-time transfers to individuals from the CARES Act affected their consumption, saving and labor-supply decisions.

Most respondents report that they primarily saved or paid down debts with their transfers, with only about 15 percent reporting that they mostly spent it.

When providing a detailed breakdown of how they used their checks, individuals report having spent or planning to spend only around 40 percent of the total transfer on average. This relatively low rate of spending out of a one-time transfer is higher for those facing liquidity constraints, who are out of the labor force, who live in larger households, who are less educated and those who received smaller amounts.

We find no meaningful effect on labor-supply decisions from these transfer payments, except for twenty percent of the unemployed who report that the stimulus payment made them search harder for a job.

My wife and I got $2,400. I used about half to start a college fund for my just-turned-1 grand-twins, and I used the rest to contribute to my Roth IRA, so I certainly fit the profile of "save, not spend."

Over and over again, not just for this pandemic period but throughout the last many decades, unemployment benefits have been the single best form of economic stimulus. People who lose their jobs face serious, immediate financial distress. They use any aid they receive to buy food, shelter, clothing, utilities, schooling, etc. They are the ones who put stimulus money right back into the economy. Even those who "misuse" such funds by buying relatively expensive things like updated smartphones (something that seems to outrage a segment of society who believe only rich folks are entitled to decent cellphones) are in fact putting money into the economy.

But sure, if our elected officials want to give me and my wife another $1,200 in the next stimulus package, we will find a very good use for it.

[Hards Alumni]

Richard Dawson was a skeeze.

[4everwarriors]

Cat wuzant bad on Hogan's Heros and Family Feud, aina?

[shoothoops]

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-surged-14-in-2019-to-21-3-million-ceos-now-earn-320-times-as-much-as-a-typical-worker/

CEO pay vs median worker:

1965 21x
1978 31x
1989 61x
1995 118x
2019 320x

[jesmu84]

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-surged-14-in-2019-to-21-3-million-ceos-now-earn-320-times-as-much-as-a-typical-worker/

CEO pay vs median worker:

1965 21x
1978 31x
1989 61x
1995 118x
2019 320x

And we wonder why our society is acting this way.

[rocky_warrior]

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-surged-14-in-2019-to-21-3-million-ceos-now-earn-320-times-as-much-as-a-typical-worker/

CEO pay vs median worker:

1965 21x
1978 31x
1989 61x
1995 118x
2019 320x

This has ??? to do with Covid?

[shoothoops]

This has ??? to do with Covid?

It has to do with the hundreds of billions of dollars wealthy individuals and wealthy corporations have received during COVID-19 while many of their workers have received one $1200 check. This is the stimulus thread.

[jesmu84]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/24/powell-set-to-deliver-profoundly-consequential-speech-changing-how-the-fed-views-inflation.html

Hmm....

[MU82]

New Gallup poll:

Both Democrats and Republicans strongly support additional stimulus.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/318452/broad-bipartisan-support-additional-stimulus.aspx?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20200902&instance_id=21833&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=37322&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

[The Sultan]

New Gallup poll:

Both Democrats and Republicans strongly support additional stimulus.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/318452/broad-bipartisan-support-additional-stimulus.aspx?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20200902&instance_id=21833&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=37322&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

I don't like the idea of another direct stimulus check.

I love the idea of extending the additional $600 benefit through the end of the year.  Even if it does "incentivize people not to work," it will help the people who need it most.

[Skatastrophy]

I don't like the idea of another direct stimulus check.

I love the idea of extending the additional $600 benefit through the end of the year.  Even if it does "incentivize people not to work," it will help the people who need it most.

My argument for direct stimulus: Unemployment doesn't cover contractors, anyone that was running a small business, or anyone in the gig economy. Stimulus checks are not enough. There will be a lot of people going hungry soon.

The economy has gotten worse since March/April, not better.

[MU82]

My argument for direct stimulus: Unemployment doesn't cover contractors, anyone that was running a small business, or anyone in the gig economy. Stimulus checks are not enough. There will be a lot of people going hungry soon.

The economy has gotten worse since March/April, not better.

A lot of my umpire friends - who are basically contractors and/or 1-man corporations - did receive unemployment benefits earlier this year. Their claims were rejected by the state, but they got the $600/week from the Feds.

[shoothoops]

Yep all of the above in the above few posts, as well as benefit for other categories of people as well. Direct payments are an essentia priorityl, and, by all accounts are not a sticking point in current discussions. If anything it isn't enough especially when one considers the massive money given to wealthy corporate individuals and entities.

[jesmu84]

Nah.

Just give more of our money to the rich and large corporations.

Oh, and when the appropriate timelines are met, allow those corps to layoff hundreds/thousands.

[The Sultan]

Nah.

Just give more of our money to the rich and large corporations.

Oh, and when the appropriate timelines are met, allow those corps to layoff hundreds/thousands.

To be fair, I am not exactly sure what you expect these airlines to do.  There just isn't enough demand for air travel, and there won't be IMO for the next nine to 12 months.

I have come full circle on this.  A few months ago, I thought a payroll protection program was the best model.  But I made the assumption that this was going to be a shorter event and that ramping things up would go more smoothly than it has.

Now I think giving employees more direct unemployment support is the better option.  Yeah it initially overwhelmed the state unemployment offices but most states were able to handle this and distribute the money.

Oh and this payroll tax holiday that is being proposed with the assumption of an eventual forgiveness by Congress?  Terrible idea.

[jesmu84]

To be fair, I am not exactly sure what you expect these airlines to do.  There just isn't enough demand for air travel, and there won't be IMO for the next nine to 12 months.

I have come full circle on this.  A few months ago, I thought a payroll protection program was the best model.  But I made the assumption that this was going to be a shorter event and that ramping things up would go more smoothly than it has.

Now I think giving employees more direct unemployment support is the better option.  Yeah it initially overwhelmed the state unemployment offices but most states were able to handle this and distribute the money.

Oh and this payroll tax holiday that is being proposed with the assumption of an eventual forgiveness by Congress?  Terrible idea.

I'm not an expert on any of this stuff.

But it made sense to me to give the money to the individuals. If people kept their jobs, great. If they didn't, that sucks, but at least they'd have the money.

Now they have no job and no money.

I dunno.

The payroll tax holiday is one convenient step toward eventually gutting social security/medicare.

Trickle down economics does not work.

[JWags85]

I'm not an expert on any of this stuff.

But it made sense to me to give the money to the individuals. If people kept their jobs, great. If they didn't, that sucks, but at least they'd have the money.

Now they have no job and no money.

I dunno.

The payroll tax holiday is one convenient step toward eventually gutting social security/medicare.

Trickle down economics does not work.

I don't know how big of a lump sump you think would have been given to people. But if they didn't fund airlines and others, they would have had no job for the last 3-6 months. It's terrible that layoffs will still come in many sectors and, like Fluffy said, this has gone longer than anticipated, but pure finances say you're better off keeping your job and your benefits than a handout.

My sister worked for a performing arts management company that didn't get PPP funds cause it wouldn't have mattered. There was literally zero money coming in at that time or into the future. But she was kept employed until June 1. So she still got the best of the unemployment benefits but unequivocally stated she'd rather have been employed longer for myriad reasons, beyond simple dollars deposited in her bank account.

Now I don't believe the unemployment benefits and supplements should be stopped, but at the time, it's always better to keep jobs intact and companies alive. $2500 a month from a paycheck with your insurance, benefits, 401K contribution, etc... is not like for like with a $2500 check from the government