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Author Topic: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package  (Read 58629 times)


#UnleashSean

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2020, 06:39:26 AM »
Well, that'll help a bit.

jesmu84

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2020, 06:59:08 AM »
Not enough.

Much like anyone with a budget both spending and income need to be taken into account.

Need to suspend rent/mortgage, utilities and loan payments

Johnny B

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2020, 07:42:08 AM »
Paywall

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2020, 08:00:50 AM »
Not enough.

Much like anyone with a budget both spending and income need to be taken into account.

Need to suspend rent/mortgage, utilities and loan payments


This bill is actually pretty generous, not only for the direct payments, but for the increased unemployment insurance.

Suspending mortgage payments across the board is a huge problem.  Banks need that money to loan back out via lines of credit, etc. 

If that doesn't work, the feds need to do more of the same.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

shoothoops

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2020, 08:18:06 AM »
The bill needs to include checks for low income Seniors, the disabled, the poor, or it's unacceptable.

jesmu84

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2020, 08:19:15 AM »
The bill needs to include checks for low income Seniors, the disabled, the poor, or it's unacceptable.

Did you read the article?

GB Warrior

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2020, 08:21:03 AM »
The bill needs to include checks for low income Seniors, the disabled, the poor, or it's unacceptable.

That was the biggest change from the initial bill the Senate pushed out - it is not regressive against those that don't pay federal taxes. Will hold judgment until we get the final bill's text, but early returns are that this isn't perfect, but something.

I would have preferred a UBI model given uncertainty of how long this will last. But I doubt this is the final stimulus.

shoothoops

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2020, 08:25:47 AM »
Did you read the article?

For example:

Disabled income is not taxed.

What about poor people that did not file 2018/2019 taxes?

If it is tied to tax retruns, and the above do not get it, the deal is unacceptable trash in my opinion.



« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 08:54:07 AM by shoothoops »

Pakuni

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2020, 08:37:40 AM »

This bill is actually pretty generous, not only for the direct payments, but for the increased unemployment insurance.

Suspending mortgage payments across the board is a huge problem.  Banks need that money to loan back out via lines of credit, etc. 

If that doesn't work, the feds need to do more of the same.

Agreed. Those who can continue to pay should.
Under the circumstances, just about the last thing the banks want on their hands right now is a bunch of empty and devalued properties. So, they're going to be highly motivated to suspend payments for those who legitimately cannot make them. But most people continue to work, and most businesses continue to operate, and there's really no reason for them not to make their payments.


shoothoops

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2020, 08:39:42 AM »
That was the biggest change from the initial bill the Senate pushed out - it is not regressive against those that don't pay federal taxes. Will hold judgment until we get the final bill's text, but early returns are that this isn't perfect, but something.

I would have preferred a UBI model given uncertainty of how long this will last. But I doubt this is the final stimulus.

I have heard different things back and forth. This article and some others suggest that if someone did not file taxes, disabled, poor, some elderly etc...they wouldn't be getting a check.

Other things have already been mentioned in this thread of which I agree that apparently are not included either.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 08:44:03 AM by shoothoops »

Archies Bat

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2020, 08:45:47 AM »
A slight tangent. 

I get providing funds to the airline companies because we need to travel by air for business, as well as visiting family.

I don't get the idea of bailing out cruise lines.  Other than jobs, is the functioning of cruise ships vital to US interests?

Thanks


Pakuni

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2020, 08:54:06 AM »
A slight tangent. 

I get providing funds to the airline companies because we need to travel by air for business, as well as visiting family.

I don't get the idea of bailing out cruise lines.  Other than jobs, is the functioning of cruise ships vital to US interests?

Thanks

Beyond that, these companies pay virtually no federal taxes.
Carnival Corporation is incorporated in Panama. Royal Caribbean in Liberia. Norwegian Cruise Line in Bermuda
We'd essentially be spending American tax dollars to prop up foreign companies.

Jay Bee

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2020, 08:57:22 AM »
Many Scoopers will get $0. Sad!
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

skianth16

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2020, 10:08:51 AM »
For example:

Disabled income is not taxed.

What about poor people that did not file 2018/2019 taxes?

If it is tied to tax retruns, and the above do not get it, the deal is unacceptable trash in my opinion.

I get what you're saying, but how else would you suggest processing all the requests and the means testing aspect without creating new forms, websites, agencies, etc? When you're dealing with a review of the entire country, this is a very logical way to go about it. Not being perfect is far from being trash.

shoothoops

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2020, 10:12:22 AM »
I get what you're saying, but how else would you suggest processing all the requests and the means testing aspect without creating new forms, websites, agencies, etc? When you're dealing with a review of the entire country, this is a very logical way to go about it. Not being perfect is far from being trash.

It’s trash. These are among the people that need it most.

skianth16

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2020, 10:25:09 AM »
It’s trash. These are among the people that need it most.

The link below says about 5% of citizens fail to file returns. Helping 95% or more of the population is usually considered a success. Again, I understand your point about some of the most vulnerable potentially being left out here, but logistically, this makes sense. Holding up the process and the payments for 95% of citizens doesn't seem like a good alternative.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/irswatch/2014/08/27/7-million-taxpayers-fail-to-file-their-income-taxes/#879a106706f6

Pakuni

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2020, 10:28:50 AM »
It’s trash. These are among the people that need it most.

Details continue to leak out, but from what little I've seen the bill does include measures aimed at including the poor and those who don't file taxes.


shoothoops

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2020, 10:35:21 AM »
The link below says about 5% of citizens fail to file returns. Helping 95% or more of the population is usually considered a success. Again, I understand your point about some of the most vulnerable potentially being left out here, but logistically, this makes sense. Holding up the process and the payments for 95% of citizens doesn't seem like a good alternative.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/irswatch/2014/08/27/7-million-taxpayers-fail-to-file-their-income-taxes/#879a106706f6

“Men and Women for others”

Aren’t we supposed to help the most vulnerable first, not last or not at all? It doesn’t have to be an either or.

I would like to see a good deal in a wide variety of areas for a wide variety of people. That of course is important. But helping these categories of people is essential and a priority in my opinion.

shoothoops

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2020, 10:36:55 AM »
Details continue to leak out, but from what little I've seen the bill does include measures aimed at including the poor and those who don't file taxes.

Thanks. I spend some time around a lot of these people. I will wait and see what else comes out today.  I have yet to see anywhere that these people will be getting checks.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 11:03:08 AM by shoothoops »

GB Warrior

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2020, 11:41:19 AM »
I get what you're saying, but how else would you suggest processing all the requests and the means testing aspect without creating new forms, websites, agencies, etc? When you're dealing with a review of the entire country, this is a very logical way to go about it. Not being perfect is far from being trash.

Process for all individuals so there is no need for income validation etc. Accept that you're giving money to people who don't need it at the expense of more timely disbursement to those that do. Efficiency vs effectiveness tradeoff.

Jockey

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2020, 11:48:19 AM »
Thanks. I spend some time around a lot of these people. I will wait and see what else comes out today.  I have yet to see anywhere that these people will be getting checks.

Dems were addressing these issues, so I doubt they would have signed off on this, otherwise. Hopefully.

The problem with those who didn't file tax returns is that it will take longer to get their checks. For those of us that file, they will get use IRS data to get us the money and I'm guessing it will probably be done through direct deposit as that is how most get their tax refunds. With the poor, it will need to be done manually.

skianth16

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2020, 11:58:52 AM »
Process for all individuals so there is no need for income validation etc. Accept that you're giving money to people who don't need it at the expense of more timely disbursement to those that do. Efficiency vs effectiveness tradeoff.

Sure, that's a possibility. Honest question, though - where would the federal government get the details of who to include and how to get their money out to them if the feds aren't using tax returns? This might sound dumb, but if someone isn't filing their taxes, where else does Uncle Sam get their info? Maybe state databases?

It also makes it hard to ensure that families get an extra boost if you don't use tax info. Or maybe we just assume all households have 2-3 kids? No added support for families in the plan?

Last, I assume the direct deposit info from tax return processing increases the security of all this too. If everyone knows there will be a bunch of checks for a couple grand in everyone's mailbox next week, don't you think more than a few of those checks don't end up in the right hands?

There might have been a more complete way to do this, but it seems like this was a pretty darn good solution to move quickly and have a significant impact.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2020, 12:44:45 PM »
Sure, that's a possibility. Honest question, though - where would the federal government get the details of who to include and how to get their money out to them if the feds aren't using tax returns? This might sound dumb, but if someone isn't filing their taxes, where else does Uncle Sam get their info? Maybe state databases?


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GB Warrior

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Re: Senate and WH Agree on Terms of Stimulus Package
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2020, 01:19:28 PM »

Social Security.

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