Wisconsin

[jficke13]

Is "You [anesthesiologist] get 1 N95/day" a PPE shortage?

[StillAWarrior]

We know there are shortages of PPE. Anecdotal evidence that differs proves nothing.

It proves that there are some places that do not have a shortage.  It's a data point.  There's nothing wrong with providing additional data points. And there's nothing limiting people to posting only negative data points.

For the record, I know many of our clients are struggling to get enough PPE.

[mu_hilltopper]

I know, personal responsibility is a lost virtue these days. The govt, failed, so that's that. Now you get to be a victim. 

For those truly absentee- out of state, I feel badly for them. But that's a tiny minority in every election.  The thousands had plenty of time to do something other than sit on their hands and complain.  You find a way to get it done if it truly is important to you. 

So .. you're saying it wasn't "truly important" to people who properly requested an absentee ballot?   



I'm as anti-victimology as the next guy, but that's over the top.   You request a ballot, you deserve one, full stop.   


We did away with "some people need to do extra things to get a ballot" about 60 years ago.


Bottom line .. this required flexibility, the GOP fought it for their advantage, the judicial system voted in lock-step with their political persuasions, and now we'll have many completely legitimate lawsuits because voters were disenfranchised through no fault of their own.


Paint them as "complainers" all you want.

[The Sultan]

Bottom line .. this required flexibility, the GOP fought it for their advantage, the judicial system voted in lock-step with their political persuasions, and now we'll have many completely legitimate lawsuits because voters were disenfranchised through no fault of their own.

[/quote]


And I'll leave this here.

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1247660220349849601?s=20

[cheebs09]

Good news is that the president of a local health system was on TV today saying that Wisconsin should have enough PPE and hospital capacity to manage the peak, which is projected for next week.  He also said that we have to hit social isolation very hard between now and April 24 to have any thought of loosening stay at home after then.  But overall seemed pretty optimistic that we have avoided a New York like scenario.

This is where most of my frustration comes from regarding in-person voting yesterday (as well as feeling for anyone that gets sick due to it). We are hopefully trending in the right direction based on the measures taken the last few weeks. Did we just undo a lot of it?

However, if there isn't a spike of positive cases in the next 14 days, maybe it shows we continue to be on a good trend. Granted, I hope there was a ton of caution being taken at those locations.

[The Sultan]

This is where most of my frustration comes from regarding in-person voting yesterday (as well as feeling for anyone that gets sick due to it). We are hopefully trending in the right direction based on the measures taken the last few weeks. Did we just undo a lot of it?

He was asked this question specifically, and pretty much dodged it saying "we will see." 

[GB Warrior]

This is where most of my frustration comes from regarding in-person voting yesterday (as well as feeling for anyone that gets sick due to it). We are hopefully trending in the right direction based on the measures taken the last few weeks. Did we just undo a lot of it?

However, if there isn't a spike of positive cases in the next 14 days, maybe it shows we continue to be on a good trend. Granted, I hope there was a ton of caution being taken at those locations.

There were a ton of precautions at my polling place - it was expertly done. That's not the point (and I know not the point you were trying to make).

I don't know who said it, so I can't credit them, but the amount of people that will get sick because of in person voting will not be zero. That is unacceptable. The amount of people that will die because of in person voting will likely not be zero. That is abjectly reprehensible.

[Spotcheck Billy]

My wife's aunt (aunt-in-law?) that had been hospitalized near Madison last week died yesterday. The only person I knew so far 1st hand that had the virus.

[Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist]

There are ppe shortages in states and cities where they were hit the hardest (As well as improperly managing the ppe)

Wisconsin does not have any of these shortages in hospitals.

Unleash where are you getting this from?  My hospital has a PPE shortage.  This is bogus.  it depends on your definition of PPE. It's also important to understand what PPE was like before the pandemic.  prepandemic, if I was seeing a patient with a highly dangerous and infectious disease, I would change gown and mask every time i left the room.  This is considered best practice in case the PPE is soiled.   Due to lack of PPE, this was not and is not currently possible.  I started out with one N95 and one gown.  Many hospital workers are in the same boat.  Due to early conservation of PPE, things are now improving.  Due to outside donations of masks and shields, things are now improving.

Yesterday I saw covid patients and had one gown and one N95 mask for my entire shift.  That is improved from one for the entire month of march but not best practice.  By wearing the same one over and over, you theoretically put your coworkers and patients at risk of getting exposed, not to mention yourself.  There is no ideal way to sterilize PPE.  That is why it is usually tossed.  unless you have been to every wisconsin hospital, your statement simply isn't accurate. 

[Jockey]

There are ppe shortages in states and cities where they were hit the hardest (As well as improperly managing the ppe)

Wisconsin does not have any of these shortages in hospitals.

Thanks, Jayce. My wife is a nurse, so we have lots of connections. Some say what you say. Others say mild shortages but none of the nurses are from Milwaukee.

Do you have info on how prepared they are (re. PPE), if things get worse in the city.?

[Coleman]

Unleash where are you getting this from?  My hospital has a PPE shortage.  This is bogus.  it depends on your definition of PPE. It's also important to understand what PPE was like before the pandemic.  prepandemic, if I was seeing a patient with a highly dangerous and infectious disease, I would change gown and mask every time i left the room.  This is considered best practice in case the PPE is soiled.   Due to lack of PPE, this was not and is not currently possible.  I started out with one N95 and one gown.  Many hospital workers are in the same boat.  Due to early conservation of PPE, things are now improving.  Due to outside donations of masks and shields, things are now improving.

Yesterday I saw covid patients and had one gown and one N95 mask for my entire shift.  That is improved from one for the entire month of march but not best practice.  By wearing the same one over and over, you theoretically put your coworkers and patients at risk of getting exposed, not to mention yourself.  There is no ideal way to sterilize PPE.  That is why it is usually tossed.  unless you have been to every wisconsin hospital, your statement simply isn't accurate.

[🏀]

Anyone think hospital PPE likely needs to be reassessed? Maybe something more sustainable and reusable?

[tower912]

I think (hope) that is going to come out of this at the end.     New forms of PPE.   New protocols for use.   An understanding of the need to stockpile for a rainy day.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

There were a ton of precautions at my polling place - it was expertly done. That's not the point (and I know not the point you were trying to make).

I don't know who said it, so I can't credit them, but the amount of people that will get sick because of in person voting will not be zero. That is unacceptable. The amount of people that will die because of in person voting will likely not be zero. That is abjectly reprehensible.

It is a calculation they've made and are completely comfortable with. Voter suppression is essential to them retaining power. And just for Ziggy, here are more examples, including a new one from our extraordinary leader, unflinchingly, unabashedly, confessing this out loud:

"Republicans should fight very hard when it comes to state wide mail-in voting. Democrats are clamoring for it. Tremendous potential for voter fraud, and for whatever reason, doesn't work out well for Republicans. @foxandfriends
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 8, 2020
(emphasis added)

In Georgia, the Republican Speaker of the House, David Ralston, said allowing people to vote by mail would be "extremely devastating to Republicans and conservatives in Georgia."
Georgia's GOP House Speaker says vote-by-mail system would be 'devastating to Republicans'
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490879-georgias-gop-house-speaker-says-vote-by-mail-system-would-be-devastating

Pennsylvania state House Republican leader Mike Turzai said this weekend that the state's new voter ID law will "allow" Mitt Romney to win the state in November, according to a report.
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/06/pa-pol-voter-id-helps-gop-win-state-077811

Bonus: Making sure only the "right" sort of people can vote:
"Texans casting a ballot on Monday, when early voting begins, will need to show one of seven forms of photo ID. A concealed handgun license is okay, but a student ID isn't. The Supreme Court on Saturday allowed Texas to go forward with this controversial voter ID law. A federal judge had previously struck down the law, arguing that it could disenfranchise 600,000 voters or a full 4.5 percent of registered voters, many of them black and Latino."
https://newrepublic.com/article/119900/texas-voter-id-allows-handgun-licenses-not-student-ids

[GB Warrior]

It is a calculation they've made and are completely comfortable with. Voter suppression is essential to them retaining power. And just for Ziggy, here are more examples, including a new one from our extraordinary leader, unflinchingly, unabashedly, confessing this out loud:

"Republicans should fight very hard when it comes to state wide mail-in voting. Democrats are clamoring for it. Tremendous potential for voter fraud, and for whatever reason, doesn't work out well for Republicans. @foxandfriends
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 8, 2020
(emphasis added)

In Georgia, the Republican Speaker of the House, David Ralston, said allowing people to vote by mail would be "extremely devastating to Republicans and conservatives in Georgia."
Georgia's GOP House Speaker says vote-by-mail system would be 'devastating to Republicans'
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/490879-georgias-gop-house-speaker-says-vote-by-mail-system-would-be-devastating

Pennsylvania state House Republican leader Mike Turzai said this weekend that the state's new voter ID law will "allow" Mitt Romney to win the state in November, according to a report.
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/06/pa-pol-voter-id-helps-gop-win-state-077811

Bonus: Making sure only the "right" sort of people can vote:
"Texans casting a ballot on Monday, when early voting begins, will need to show one of seven forms of photo ID. A concealed handgun license is okay, but a student ID isn't. The Supreme Court on Saturday allowed Texas to go forward with this controversial voter ID law. A federal judge had previously struck down the law, arguing that it could disenfranchise 600,000 voters or a full 4.5 percent of registered voters, many of them black and Latino."
https://newrepublic.com/article/119900/texas-voter-id-allows-handgun-licenses-not-student-ids

My comments were related to Health and Safety at the polling place. You don't need to convince me that voter ID laws are a false flag operation. Evidence can be found in the fact that 75% of people had their faces covered when voting...didn't seem to be an issue that it's awfully hard to validate identity off a picture that way.

[Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist]

Anyone think hospital PPE likely needs to be reassessed? Maybe something more sustainable and reusable?

In order to reuse it it needs to be able to be sterilized easily.  Right now that is not possible.  Alcohol containing products or liquids ruin masks and gowns.  Hospitals are using UV wands to try and sterilize PPE.  The main reason PPE has improved is largely due to conservation efforts nationwide.  Never in my 20 year career have I ever had to previously worry about PPE or worry about tossing it after single use.   Since things were announced, hospitals have been conserving PPE.  Those in the ICU and ER have good supplies.  Those in non-ICU covid wards have fairly decent supplies.  Those in noncovid floors, the primary care clinics, imaging, lab, or anywhere else in health care do not have good supplies at all.  Those people are probably being exposed but don't know it.

It has made sense to conserve PPE for areas most in need, but to say PPE supply is fine is not accurate at all.  It hasn't bee accurate from day one of the pandemic until today.   I would love for some engineer to develop reusable PPE.  The problem is, to truly stay sterile you need to ungown and then sterilize in between patients... much like an operating room setting.  You don't want to risk bringing germs from one patient into the room of another patient.  Right now that is happening due to lack of PPE.  Hospitals have large nosocomial infection rates.  I'm sure there are many nosocomial infections happening despite our best infection control efforts.
The reality is ICUs and covid ward providers see more than one patient a day.... they may have 20 total patients per day and wear the same gear for all of them.

[Jockey]

Does anyone have numbers for voters in Milwaukee yesterday?

Close as I can tell, it will be way, way less than the 2016 primary. Only 18,000+ voted yesterday. So far, absentee ballots at under 60,000. So even with a few trickling in yet, the number will be under 90,000.

2016? 193,000. So in case anyone is wondering why Rs were so insistent on voting in the middle of a pandemic yesterday.....


If anyone has updated numbers, please post.

[Coleman]

Does anyone have numbers for voters in Milwaukee yesterday?

Close as I can tell, it will be way, way less than the 2016 primary. Only 18,000+ voted yesterday. So far, absentee ballots at under 60,000. So even with a few trickling in yet, the number will be under 90,000.

2016? 193,000. So in case anyone is wondering why Rs were so insistent on voting in the middle of a pandemic yesterday.....


If anyone has updated numbers, please post.

Not quibbling with you in theory, but keep in mind 2016 was a primary for both parties.

[MUBurrow]

There are ppe shortages in states and cities where they were hit the hardest (As well as improperly managing the ppe)

Wisconsin does not have any of these shortages in hospitals.

Yeah... no.  That's just completely untrue and I'm not sure how you could claim that. 

Bo's Massage Therapist gave a perfect account so no need for me to add much more.  But my sig other at a major hospital in Wisconsin is having to use face shields over masks to facilitate reusing masks and other similar steps that, as Bo mentions, are a sacrifice from best practices in the name of preserving and addressing the PPE shortage.

[Sir Lawrence]

An article on yesterday's election and potential litigation:

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-now-waits-for-the-spring-election-results-and-then-the-lawsuits/article_bd1ba279-363e-5f93-8349-4933d4fcdb96.html

[🏀]

In order to reuse it it needs to be able to be sterilized easily.  Right now that is not possible.  Alcohol containing products or liquids ruin masks and gowns.  Hospitals are using UV wands to try and sterilize PPE.  The main reason PPE has improved is largely due to conservation efforts nationwide.  Never in my 20 year career have I ever had to previously worry about PPE or worry about tossing it after single use.   Since things were announced, hospitals have been conserving PPE.  Those in the ICU and ER have good supplies.  Those in non-ICU covid wards have fairly decent supplies.  Those in noncovid floors, the primary care clinics, imaging, lab, or anywhere else in health care do not have good supplies at all.  Those people are probably being exposed but don't know it.

It has made sense to conserve PPE for areas most in need, but to say PPE supply is fine is not accurate at all.  It hasn't bee accurate from day one of the pandemic until today.   I would love for some engineer to develop reusable PPE.  The problem is, to truly stay sterile you need to ungown and then sterilize in between patients... much like an operating room setting.  You don't want to risk bringing germs from one patient into the room of another patient.  Right now that is happening due to lack of PPE.  Hospitals have large nosocomial infection rates.  I'm sure there are many nosocomial infections happening despite our best infection control efforts.
The reality is ICUs and covid ward providers see more than one patient a day.... they may have 20 total patients per day and wear the same gear for all of them.

1. TYFYS

I'm not questioning the use and need of constant changing. More of the figuring out how to disinfect and reuse, there's positive opportunity there. I'm not thinking you need to be walking around like the DJ from Slipknot or anything.

[GB Warrior]

Not quibbling with you in theory, but keep in mind 2016 was a primary for both parties.

I couldn't find figures, but saw somewhere the turnout gap between Milwaukee and Waukesha narrowed, which feels like an indicator

[jficke13]

https://twitter.com/SenDanFeyen/status/1247943644327206913?s=20

"Sen. Dan Feyen
@SenDanFeyen
I learned today that the WEC received a call from a postal service worker informing them 3 large tubs of absentee ballots from Oshkosh and Appleton, were just located.

I understand your frustration and am working hard to try to remedy the situation."

I'm shocked, shocked, that something like this happened. Who could possibly have predicted an occurrence like this?

[Jockey]

Not quibbling with you in theory, but keep in mind 2016 was a primary for both parties.

You're right, that affects the numbers some, but I was only talking about Milwaukee County Democratic numbers from 4 years ago - not overall numbers..

Total votes in Milwaukee County were about 300,000 4 years ago compared to 93,000 yesterday.

Another stolen election.

[Jockey]

An article on yesterday's election and potential litigation:

https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-now-waits-for-the-spring-election-results-and-then-the-lawsuits/article_bd1ba279-363e-5f93-8349-4933d4fcdb96.html

Lawsuits will not matter in any way.

Right-wing State Supreme Court and right-wing Fed Supreme Court. We already know what these rulings will be.