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Author Topic: Wojo's Peer Group  (Read 2377 times)

shoothoops

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2020, 12:20:47 PM »
I did this in the other Wojo performance thread that looked at his wins by quadrant in close games.  Instead of trying to determone who's in the same bucket as Wojo in terms of the end result, how about we let the data tell us how Wojo has done versus his "peers"?

Peer group to include;
All first time coaches in the last 10 or 20 years,
that have had 5 years as a head coach at the same university regardless of win percentage and NCAA success.

Rank those coaches by # NCAA bids and over all win percentage.  Can list the furthest each coach attained in the NCAA tournament.  Wojo will fall naturally in line with his "peers".

For me, comparing him to the rest of the league has more value than any new D-1 coach.

lurch91

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2020, 12:45:48 PM »
For me, comparing him to the rest of the league has more value than any new D-1 coach.

I was afraid that it would be too limited of a sample size to draw any conclusions.

MU82

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2020, 12:49:22 PM »
I'm sticking with the "peer group" I presented earlier -- 9 all-time great coaches, none of whom accomplished as much in his first five seasons as Wojo did.

Cherry-picking data is fun!

And then, while I'm at it, I think I'll start 87 more threads "proving" how great or how horrible Wojo is. Cuz each of those will be fun, too!

Maybe one of them will even show how DePaul's program is better than Wojo's. Fun, fun, fun!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 12:50:54 PM by MU82 »
“The advancement and diffusion of knowledge is the only guardian of true liberty.”

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JakeBarnes

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2020, 12:58:15 PM »
I'm sticking with the "peer group" I presented earlier -- 9 all-time great coaches, none of whom accomplished as much in his first five seasons as Wojo did.

Cherry-picking data is fun!

And then, while I'm at it, I think I'll start 87 more threads "proving" how great or how horrible Wojo is. Cuz each of those will be fun, too!

Maybe one of them will even show how DePaul's program is better than Wojo's. Fun, fun, fun!

  Norman Dale is the shot in the arm our program needs and can coach circles around wojo. Welcome to my TED talk   
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


dad's couch

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2020, 01:00:53 PM »
Norman Dale is the shot in the arm our program needs and can coach circles around wojo. Welcome to my TED talk   

Hands on a player? Didn't work out too well for Bobby Knight.

BallBoy

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2020, 01:44:17 PM »
And, as a little bonus, see below for the peer group for my expectations for Marquette basketball.  There are exactly 27 coaches/programs on this list; which would stand to reason with the ProJo ideology that Wojo has built us into a top 25-30 program.

Criteria:
>.500 winning percentage at current school
>100 games coached at current school
>50% NCAA Tourney appearance rate
> or equal to 1 Sweet Sixteen (most are well above this)

Few things:
1.  If Wojo were to get a Sweet Sixteen, he would join the list of some of the Top 25 coaches of all time.  Even as a Projo, I wouldn't say that. 
2.  Outside of a few names this list is the whose who of college coaches and we are measuring Wojo's success based on that.  Wojo should be compared to coaches with 20+ years of success?  Coach K?  Tom Izzo? Jay Wright? Roy Williams? Huggins, etc.? If that is what he has to live up to, no wonder he isn't living up to your expectations only six years into his career.
3.  You look at a few of those coaches.  They have sweet sixteens not because of what they did but because of what happened before them.  Would you think it is at all possible that if Wojo would have walked into the three amigos he might have gotten a sweet sixteen. 

ATL MU Warrior

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2020, 01:52:27 PM »
Few things:
1.  If Wojo were to get a Sweet Sixteen, he would join the list of some of the Top 25 coaches of all time.  Even as a Projo, I wouldn't say that. 
2.  Outside of a few names this list is the whose who of college coaches and we are measuring Wojo's success based on that.  Wojo should be compared to coaches with 20+ years of success?  Coach K?  Tom Izzo? Jay Wright? Roy Williams? Huggins, etc.? If that is what he has to live up to, no wonder he isn't living up to your expectations only six years into his career.
3.  You look at a few of those coaches.  They have sweet sixteens not because of what they did but because of what happened before them.  Would you think it is at all possible that if Wojo would have walked into the three amigos he might have gotten a sweet sixteen.
#2 is dead on. 

How about this.  Of the 27 coaches on this list, which ones achieved better results (overall winning %, Tournament %, etc.) in the first 6 years of their careers?    How many has Wojo out-performed?  I have no idea what that would show, but it would be potentially more revealing than saying Wojo hasn't lived up to the performance of the best coaches in the business in his first 6 years, most of which have 10+ years of experience on him.  That's meaningless and obvious.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2020, 03:49:18 PM »
I'm probably just talking to air right now, but another very interesting tidbit to me:

14 coaches in P6 conferences have been employed 5+ years and have ZERO Sweet Sixteen appearances.
5 of these coaches are in the Big East:  Willard, Cooley, Wojo, Leitao, McDermott

Not good tourney results for Big East coaches in general.

shoothoops

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2020, 06:23:51 PM »
I was afraid that it would be too limited of a sample size to draw any conclusions.
[/quote

I think it would be fair to compare the 5 years with other Power 5 leagues, good, middle, bad teams as well as top few non Power 5 leagues...but not just anywhere.

For me, fair or unfair first year coach at MU has higher expectations than mid major or low major schools.


ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Wojo's Peer Group
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2020, 07:02:48 PM »
What is your fascination with slurping?  You mention it quite a bit.  Is there something you want to get off your chest?

When willie slurps, he ain't wasting a drop.  nothing on his chest at all.
Unless Sultan says differently that is, then we’d obviously have to go with that....

--Lighthouse 84, 9/16/18

 

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