Wojo's Peer Group

[5DollarPitcher]

>.500 record at current school
>100 games coached at current school
Between 1 and 3 NCAA Tournament appearances (inclusive)
Zero Sweet Sixteen (or further) appearances

If Wojo's results are all we should ever expect (without being entitled), which of these coaches/programs are we aspiring to be?

[JakeBarnes]

Scoop's peer group:

[Silent Verbal]

If your spreadsheet is accurate, that’s an ugly list.

[We R Final Four]

The great Pat Chambers made the list!

[Uncle Rico]

Scoop's peer group:

[brewcity77]

114-78 is below .500? I hope you didn't get your mathematics education at Marquette.

[5DollarPitcher]

114-78 is below .500? I hope you didn't get your mathematics education at Marquette.

The criterion is GREATER THAN .500 as indicated by “>.500”.

I hope you didn’t get your mathematics degree from Marquette.

[Johnny B]

What is the purpose of this wojo sucks garbage all day every day? Like a broken record. Weren't saying shi t when we were 7-4. Teams go on skids. Win the next two and ranked once again in good position and all the whiners disappear. I mean what is this? I get the play has been awful the last two games but teams go on skids. At this point in the season isn't rational to say" yes they're on a skid but let's wait out the rest of the year and see what happens" before we freak out and spew wojo sucks. The team sucks. The athetlic department sucks. The fans love mediocrity bs like theres no tommor? Or f uck it we could just post about how crape things are all day on here if it helps

[#UnleashSean]

114-78 is below .500? I hope you didn't get your mathematics education at Marquette.

Thats an ooooooof partner

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

>.500 record at current school
>100 games coached at current school
Between 1 and 3 NCAA Tournament appearances (inclusive)
Zero Sweet Sixteen (or further) appearances

If Wojo's results are all we should ever expect (without being entitled), which of these coaches/programs are we aspiring to be?

The question you ask at the end does not match the data you provide. Aspiring to be implies future results, not current ones. The more accurate measure would be to look at coaches whose first five years featured the criteria you listed.

[WhiteTrash]

114-78 is below .500? I hope you didn't get your mathematics education at Marquette.

[brewcity77]

The criterion is GREATER THAN .500 as indicated by “>.500”.

I hope you didn’t get your mathematics degree from Marquette.

 

Well played.

[lurch91]

The question you ask at the end does not match the data you provide. Aspiring to be implies future results, not current ones. The more accurate measure would be to look at coaches whose first five years featured the criteria you listed.

But that doesn't fit the narrative that Wojo sucks.

And what the hell, DePaul didn't make the list?!?!?!

[BallBoy]

>.500 record at current school
>100 games coached at current school
Between 1 and 3 NCAA Tournament appearances (inclusive)
Zero Sweet Sixteen (or further) appearances

If Wojo's results are all we should ever expect (without being entitled), which of these coaches/programs are we aspiring to be?

Interesting criteria for selecting a peer group.  I noticed that certain coaches weren’t in the list.

Josh Pastner - Coached at Georgia tech for >100 games. Not include because he is <.500. Has a much longer coaching career but also has NCAA violations.

Danny Manning - Head coach at Wake Forest. Coached there for >100. Not included because he is <.500

Patrick Ewing - just under 100 at 88 barely over .500 and 0 NCAA appearances.

Greg McDermott - Long time head coach.  Has not made it passed the round of 32 in 25yrs as a head coach. Only not on the list because it his 11years at Creighton made the NCAA 6 times.

Shaka Smart has >100 at Texas. Just barely .500. No sweet sixteen appearances. Not on the list because you conveniently included his VCU.

Chris Collins - sub .500 so not on the list

Brad Underwood - 92 games, sub<.500 no NCAA, no sweet sixteen

Cuonzo Martin - 92 games at Missouri. not .500 and only one NCAA tournament. Including California over .500 no NCAA wins. Have to go all the way back to Tennessee to see sweet sixteen and why he wasn’t included in your list which is his only NCAA wins in 12 yrs as head coach.

Dan Hurley - 10 seasons head coach. Two NCAA tournaments. Only two years at UConn but no NCAA appearances

Bobby Hurley - meets the criteria. Not on list. 7 years as head coach.

Greg Gard - walked in two good years has done nothing since. Did his teams get the sweet sixteen or did Bo’s

Kevin Willard - 4 NCAA appearances in 10 years eliminates him from Wojo’s peer group. No sweet sixteen.

Fran McCaffery - 4 NCAA appearances in 10 years. No sweet 16. Had 14years of prior head coaching experience. Not on the list because he had 4 appears.

Ed Cooley- made 4 NCAAs but not sweet 16s at Providence while there 10yrs. Has 5 years previous coaching experience.

All of these coaches were eliminated as peers because of some arbitrary measure. I was just pulling random coaches and I don’t think their resumes at their current schools beat Wojo’s by much of at all.

[GoldenDieners32]

IMO not a great list to be on, hopefully he can improve

[BallBoy]

I will add others.

Brian Wardle as some have mentioned him for the position >100 sub .500. Only 1 NCAA appearance.

Mike Hopkins -washington 97 games. No sweet sixteen. Good first two years horrible third year.

Jamie Dixon - >100 games with current team. 1 tournament with no sweet sixteen. Last passed sweet sixteen in 2009. 17years head coaching experience

Ben Howland - >100games at current school. One NCAA appearance. No sweet 16s. Last relevancy was UCLA and has 24 years head coaching experience.  His current run doesn’t live up to his early days.

Frank Haith - Not on your list because he made 4 nCAAs in 16year career.

Your list is meaningless.

[MU82]

Well done, Ball Boy.

Anybody can come up with a list to make any coach of their choosing look good or bad in comparison.

For example ...

Of Jay Wright, Mike Krzyzewski, Lute Olson, Jim Calhoun, Dana Altman, Kelvin Sampson, Eddie Sutton, John Beilein, Mike Montgomery and Steve Wojciechowski, only Wojciechowski reached the NCAA tournament twice in his first five seasons as a D1 head coach.

That's some peer group, and Wojo's at the head of it!

(Before Nojos start screaming that Wojo hasn't earned the right to be listed with those guys, and those guys have more than made up for relatively slow starts, and many of those guys started when conferences received only one bid, and Wojo is at a bigger school than most of those other guys, and yada yada yada ... I get it. I was just demonstrating how anybody can make up a "peer group" to fit one's narrative.)

[5DollarPitcher]

I will add others.

Brian Wardle as some have mentioned him for the position >100 sub .500. Only 1 NCAA appearance.

Mike Hopkins -washington 97 games. No sweet sixteen. Good first two years horrible third year.

Jamie Dixon - >100 games with current team. 1 tournament with no sweet sixteen. Last passed sweet sixteen in 2009. 17years head coaching experience

Ben Howland - >100games at current school. One NCAA appearance. No sweet 16s. Last relevancy was UCLA and has 24 years head coaching experience.  His current run doesn’t live up to his early days.

Frank Haith - Not on your list because he made 4 nCAAs in 16year career.

Your list is meaningless.

I'm confused as to the point you're making.  Are you saying adding these coaches, who barely missed based on the criteria, would be somehow better for Wojo?  It would still be an embarrassing list.

The idea wasn't to name every bad coach in the NCAA; it was to come up with a list of coaches whose resume lines up with Wojo's at Marquette.  So far the high major coaches that align with him are Rich Pitino and Pat Chambers...  Big yikes.

[5DollarPitcher]

Well done, Ball Boy.

Anybody can come up with a list to make any coach of their choosing look good or bad in comparison.

For example ...

Of Jay Wright, Mike Krzyzewski, Lute Olson, Jim Calhoun, Dana Altman, Kelvin Sampson, Eddie Sutton, John Beilein, Mike Montgomery and Steve Wojciechowski, only Wojciechowski reached the NCAA tournament twice in his first five seasons as a D1 head coach.

That's some peer group, and Wojo's at the head of it!

(Before Nojos start screaming that Wojo hasn't earned the right to be listed with those guys, and those guys have more than made up for relatively slow starts, and many of those guys started when conferences received only one bid, and Wojo is at a bigger school than most of those other guys, and yada yada yada ... I get it. I was just demonstrating how anybody can make up a "peer group" to fit one's narrative.)

I think the greater than 100 games with their current university criteria is the important thing to note.  These are coaches who are committed/tied to their respective universities.  Most of the guys you named would be eliminated from this list based on that criteria.  And when they did show up again at their new universities (i.e. Wright at Nova), they'd be eliminated due to the "success" criteria (i.e. more NCAA bids, Sweet Sixteen).

[MU82]

I think the greater than 100 games with their current university criteria is the important thing to note.  These are coaches who are committed/tied to their respective universities.  Most of the guys you named would be eliminated from this list based on that criteria.  And when they did show up again at their new universities (i.e. Wright at Nova), they'd be eliminated due to the "success" criteria (i.e. more NCAA bids, Sweet Sixteen).

Cool. My point was that most anybody can come up with a "peer group" if they want to tear down or build up a coach, player, politician, businessman, etc.

We all want Marquette to win more.

[rocky_warrior]

Seriously, this is the most arbitrary set of filters ever.  Pass, not worth my time.

(And I realize I spent time reading and replying, whoops)

[JakeBarnes]

Seriously, this is the most arbitrary set of filters ever.  Pass, not worth my time.

(And I realize I spent time reading and replying, whoops)

Rocky: i want to be real life friends after your past 2 weeks of posts. Arby's meetup in like Schaumburg?

[dad's couch]

I'll add to the list. Anthony Grant of Dayton. You know the team with a 4 beside their name. Eleven seasons as a head coach with a record of 253–141 (.642). Three NCAA tournament appearances with 1 win. How about Colorado's Tad Boyle? You may recognize his team as the one with a 21 besides their name. His Colorado record in 9+ seasons is 210–129 (.618) and only 1 NCAA Tournament win in 4 appearances which came in 2015-16. The three following seasons he's 9 games over .500 total. In case you need a reminder. MU is currently 8 games over .500 this year. Andy Enfield is also putting Wojo to shame with his 2  NCAA appearances and 1 win in the five seasons at USC. But with your criteria the 1 win in March makes him superior to Wojo.

What about coaches who have regressed the six years we had Wojo. Utah's Krystkowski is probably not going to make the tournament this year. In the past 5 seasons, 1 NCAA appearance with 1 win which happened 5 years ago. Maybe we start a support group with their fan base.

Larrañaga of Miami has made a Sweet 16 in the past 5 seasons (doesn't look like he's going to make the tournament this year so I'll add it). But 2 appearances in the 4 seasons since with zero wins probably with consecutive years of missing the tournament probably means his time is limited.

I think you would be happy with Brian Brownwell of Clemson another titan towering over Wojo. Tenth season this year. Two appearances total but did make the Sweet 16 in year 8.

Can we stop this nonsense now? To paraphrase Norman Dale. My coach is on the court.

[JakeBarnes]

I'll add to the list. Anthony Grant of Dayton. You know the team with a 4 beside their name. Eleven seasons as a head coach with a record of 253–141 (.642). Three NCAA tournament appearances with 1 win. How about Colorado's Tad Boyle? You may recognize his team as the one with a 21 besides their name. His Colorado record in 9+ seasons is 210–129 (.618) and only 1 NCAA Tournament win in 4 appearances which came in 2015-16. The three following seasons he's 9 games over .500 total. In case you need a reminder. MU is currently 8 games over .500 this year. Andy Enfield is also putting Wojo to shame with his 2  NCAA appearances and 1 win in the five seasons at USC. But with your criteria the 1 win in March makes him superior to Wojo.

What about coaches who have regressed the six years we had Wojo. Utah's Krystkowski is probably not going to make the tournament this year. In the past 5 seasons, 1 NCAA appearance with 1 win which happened 5 years ago. Maybe we start a support group with their fan base.

Larrañaga of Miami has made a Sweet 16 in the past 5 seasons (doesn't look like he's going to make the tournament this year so I'll add it). But 2 appearances in the 4 seasons since with zero wins probably with consecutive years of missing the tournament probably means his time is limited.

I think you would be happy with Brian Brownwell of Clemson another titan towering over Wojo. Tenth season this year. Two appearances total but did make the Sweet 16 in year 8.

Can we stop this nonsense now? To paraphrase Norman Dale. My coach is on the court.

this guy f*cks

[BallBoy]

I'm confused as to the point you're making.  Are you saying adding these coaches, who barely missed based on the criteria, would be somehow better for Wojo?  It would still be an embarrassing list.

The idea wasn't to name every bad coach in the NCAA; it was to come up with a list of coaches whose resume lines up with Wojo's at Marquette.  So far the high major coaches that align with him are Rich Pitino and Pat Chambers...  Big yikes.

It is an absolutely meaningless list and has no relevance.  It’s a filtered list of 25 names nothing more. Are the coaches  on the list good/bad? Can’t tell you. You looked at the list and said well there are only 2 P-5 coaches so it’s proof that Wojo sucks which again has no basis in reality.

I listed a whole bunch of coaches that at some point were the next big thing or are coaches at P-5 schools. In many cases have worse records than Wojo’s record.  They are still head coaches in D1 and he is doing better than them. P-5 coaches that aren’t as good as Wojo.  yikes. None were on your list.

Some coaches just weren’t on your list because they coached for so long. Not as good of resume as Wojo.

If few number of p-5 coaches on your list give you the yikes let’s see why there aren’t more with just our conference.

Jay wright - Been coaching 20years. Been to more than 4 tournaments. Won a lot too. I would say Wojo is no comparison but he is also a 6 year head coach. He is no Jay Wright but how is he against Jay Wright at 6 years...Wojo’s record in his first 6 years is better than Jay’s in his first 6 years.  Does it mean anything...likely not. Comparing someone with 20 years experience isn’t apples to apples though.

Willard - record isn’t that much better than Wojo’s.  Willard is in year ten only has one more NCAA appearance. His first 6 years were not as good as Wojo’s but the last years are better. I would consider him a good measuring stick. Will Wojo’s record be better than Willard’s through 10 years?  Regardless not in the peer group due to 1 extra appearance in 4 more years of coaching.

Cooley - 15years experience 4 appearances. Worse appearance rate. Nothing to say he is significantly better than Wojo. Not on your list only do to that appearance in 9 years.

Ewing- should easily be in Wojo’s peer group. Similar number of years, conference, school type, etc. not on your list. Why because he is not as good as Wojo and can’t have that.

Leitao - not as good as Wojo so not on your list

Mike Anderson - not on the list because not enough games at current school.  In the last 10years his record isn’t much better than Wojo’s even though he is more experienced. His last good run was 12years ago. Seems like the definition of the guy who lost his edge but as been coaching for 18years. 

Steele - hasn’t played enough games to count.

Jordan - Not enough games at Butler to count. If we include his previous stops than he would. Only made NCAA 1 in 4 years. Seems like someone who should be in MU’s peer group.

McDermott - 25years coaching. No sweet 16s. Not on your list because he has more than 3 NCAA tournaments but in 25 years. Would Wojo be on your list if he was a coach for 25 years. No.

So just looking at your list we eliminate 5 of the 9 because they have been coaching longer.

2 because they haven’t been coaching long enough

2 because they suck. A whole p-5 conference wiped away without really understanding the quality of the coach relative to the peer group.  I mean it makes it easy to then say well there is only 2 p-5 coaches so he must suck but it has no meaning.

Realistically other than Wright are any of the coaches’ resumes that are much better than Wojo’s. I would say duration McDermott has more time on earth. Anderson as well but hasn’t done much in the last decade and he doesn’t look good now.

That would tell me Wojo is in the upper half of the conference and may yet surpass McDermott and Anderson if he coaches for as long.

I wonder what the list would look like if you normalized versus arbitrary numbers.

100 games coached or more in career.
Number of appearances relative to their tenure 4appearances/10year head coach =40%
No NCAA sweet 16 or greater in last 6 years.