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Author Topic: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??  (Read 18389 times)

cheebs09

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2020, 04:31:56 PM »
He dislikes the fact that he arrived in the NBA to discover it's a helluva lot harder coaching against Greg Popovich, Nick Nurse and Mike Budenholzer than Chris Collins, Fran McCaffery and Greg Gard.
But sure, Beilein isn't the problem. The players are.

My read is that the players don’t like his style and it’s outdated. I believe the slugs/thugs issue maybe took this to the point of no return. It sounds like he lost the team. I’m not sure this is a Beilein volunteering to walk away scenario.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2020, 04:33:19 PM »
It's interesting to hear his style is outdated.  I thought it would translate well to the NBA, but that shows you what I know about the differences between modern NBA and college offenses.
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Pakuni

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2020, 05:26:42 PM »
That’s not my sole concern and has never been my sole concern....EVER.  I believe free agency will tear teams apart, the haves will benefit as good players move up, while teams are raided they will be hurt.  Bad players will stay or move down.   

That will ultimately cause fans of mid major schools and some high majors that are raided to give up....that will lead to schools moving to D2, reduced scholarships and opportunities.

So wait, you think programs like St. Louis, San Francisco, Bradley and Belmont are going to drop their programs because they lose a transfer or two?
Holy melodrama.

I've got some news for you ... fans of programs like those aren't fans because they think they're seeing a bunch of elite players on the court. They know who they are. They're fans because it's their school or alma mater or because it's the hometown team or because it's family tradition, etc.
That's the reason why they're fans today, and the reason they'll continue to be fans. It has virtually nothing to do with who's leading the scorer.

And the idea that teams are going to be "raided" annually is nonsense. The majority of mid- and low-major teams have no one on their rosters that the big programs want. Do you think Calipari is going to stop bringing in 3-4 McDonald's All Americans every year because he can get a guy who averaged 13 ppg at Austin Peay? Is Marquette going to start getting its players from UWGB and Northern Illinois?
As is the case today, the flow of players down will be much larger than the flow up.


Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2020, 05:32:01 PM »
You are correct Pakuni, Chicos again argues just to hear himself speak.  Could u imagine this guy in person?!
Guys like McEwen, Chartouney, the kid at villanova last year, rick smits kid at Butler, etcetc show how incredibly difficult it can be going from a big fish in a small pond to even a contributor at the highest of high majors
Political free board, plz leave your clever quips in your clever mind.

panda

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2020, 05:50:02 PM »
You are correct Pakuni, Chicos again argues just to hear himself speak.  Could u imagine this guy in person?!
Guys like McEwen, Chartouney, the kid at villanova last year, rick smits kid at Butler, etcetc show how incredibly difficult it can be going from a big fish in a small pond to even a contributor at the highest of high majors

Why anyone gets worked up about the transfer debate is more telling about their own character than anything.

Lennys Tap

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2020, 05:51:27 PM »
He dislikes a bunch of over paid players that don’t listen to the coach and mail it in because they have a guaranteed contract?  I am shocked by this.

Too bad he didn’t talk to you before he took the job. You would have set him straight. LOL

MU82

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2020, 06:29:08 PM »
Jay Wright is competent enough to realize James Dolan is one of the worst owners in all of sports and the deck is stacked against him from day 1. No coach in their right mind would go to the Knicks as long as Dolan is around.

Do you think Phil Jackson (not a coach, but same principle) was "out of his mind"?

Do you think Mike D'Antoni was stupid?

You don't know much about human behavior, do you?
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MU82

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2020, 06:48:19 PM »
It’s called the law of supply and demand. Does D1 college basketball really need 353 teams? Does D1 college football really need schools out of the P5, especially when the same few teams are always the winner?

Or, if they really cared about a free market, why don’t they reduce the number of scholarships available to spread the wealth and make sure all those other schools share in that DTV money? Or allow high school players to go right to the NBA? Or allow star players to get paid for their likenesses?

The answer: They are a cartel...and are trying control their haul. Did Northwestern football really need a $260 million football complex that’s ten times nicer than the Chicago Bears’ facilities?

This.

And speaking of Northwestern, how about Gary Barnett telling his players that "I bleed purple" and preaching loyalty mere hours before he bolted for Colorado? Lou Holtz sold his guys on GopherLand being the only place to be -- and he was still saying it even as he was trying on his effen leprechaun costume.

Yep, the only free agents are the coaches. With very few exceptions, they are all on one-year contracts even if they pretend to be on 10-year contracts.

Many coaches argue players shouldn't get paid even as they put sheets made out of $100 bills on their beds made out of gold. And many of those are the same ones who, like Barnett and Holtz and countless others, plead for loyalty from their players.

I wonder how many times KO, Crean and Buzz preached, "You have to want to be at Marquette," "Marquette is all that matters," etc, to their players? That, of course, didn't apply to them. Each was under contract ... but each was a total free agent who bolted whenever he felt like it.

And dem's da "rules," so I get it. Total free agency for coaches. Any coach really in demand, the new school will pay the buyout. Hell, Rick Barnes shocked everybody when he said he turned down the UCLA job because they wouldn't pay his buyout ... only to admit shortly thereafter that he had been lying. Of course UCLA would have paid the buyout.

But it's cool ... just don't be a hypocrite and complain about a player transferring to better his situation. Especially when the majority of transfers are kids who move down a level because they want more playing time. Absolutely ridiculous that Traci Carter had to sit out a year before he could play at LaSalle. Ridiculous.

There is zero evidence -- ZERO! -- that free agency wouldn't actually help the small and mid-sized schools like LaSalle way more than it would hurt them.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

panda

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2020, 07:04:00 PM »
Do you think Phil Jackson (not a coach, but same principle) was "out of his mind"?

Do you think Mike D'Antoni was stupid?

You don't know much about human behavior, do you?

The entire Knicks organization is toxic and the fact two successful NBA guys failed is reason enough for Wright to say not 100 times over if they ever come and ask.

Smart people don’t always make smart decisions so I’m not sure what you’re getting at..

panda

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2020, 07:11:31 PM »
This.

And speaking of Northwestern, how about Gary Barnett telling his players that "I bleed purple" and preaching loyalty mere hours before he bolted for Colorado? Lou Holtz sold his guys on GopherLand being the only place to be -- and he was still saying it even as he was trying on his effen leprechaun costume.

Yep, the only free agents are the coaches. With very few exceptions, they are all on one-year contracts even if they pretend to be on 10-year contracts.

Many coaches argue players shouldn't get paid even as they put sheets made out of $100 bills on their beds made out of gold. And many of those are the same ones who, like Barnett and Holtz and countless others, plead for loyalty from their players.

I wonder how many times KO, Crean and Buzz preached, "You have to want to be at Marquette," "Marquette is all that matters," etc, to their players? That, of course, didn't apply to them. Each was under contract ... but each was a total free agent who bolted whenever he felt like it.

And dem's da "rules," so I get it. Total free agency for coaches. Any coach really in demand, the new school will pay the buyout. Hell, Rick Barnes shocked everybody when he said he turned down the UCLA job because they wouldn't pay his buyout ... only to admit shortly thereafter that he had been lying. Of course UCLA would have paid the buyout.

But it's cool ... just don't be a hypocrite and complain about a player transferring to better his situation. Especially when the majority of transfers are kids who move down a level because they want more playing time. Absolutely ridiculous that Traci Carter had to sit out a year before he could play at LaSalle. Ridiculous.

There is zero evidence -- ZERO! -- that free agency wouldn't actually help the small and mid-sized schools like LaSalle way more than it would hurt them.

Yep totally agree. I’ve never understood the argument that free agency would ruin the mid major ranks. If anything, the idea of immediate playing time may be more appealing for the 7-10th guy on a power 5 team who was over promised on playing time while being recruited.

cheebs09

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2020, 07:40:07 PM »
It's interesting to hear his style is outdated.  I thought it would translate well to the NBA, but that shows you what I know about the differences between modern NBA and college offenses.

I meant style in the sense of how he relates to players. This article mentions veterans being upset he ran the team like a college program. Reminds me of Al’s comment that he had to coach somewhere he was paid more than the players, or else they wouldn’t listen to him.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cavaliersnation.com/2020/02/17/report-john-beilein-unhappy-miserable-as-cavs-head-coach/amp/

Uncle Rico

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2020, 07:48:04 PM »
I meant style in the sense of how he relates to players. This article mentions veterans being upset he ran the team like a college program. Reminds me of Al’s comment that he had to coach somewhere he was paid more than the players, or else they wouldn’t listen to him.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cavaliersnation.com/2020/02/17/report-john-beilein-unhappy-miserable-as-cavs-head-coach/amp/

It was an awful fit from the get go.  Billy Donovan and Brad Stevens did it right.  Find a place that can win and has a good culture.  Oklahoma City lost its stars but have adapted pretty well
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Cheeks

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2020, 08:26:17 PM »
So wait, you think programs like St. Louis, San Francisco, Bradley and Belmont are going to drop their programs because they lose a transfer or two?
Holy melodrama.

I've got some news for you ... fans of programs like those aren't fans because they think they're seeing a bunch of elite players on the court. They know who they are. They're fans because it's their school or alma mater or because it's the hometown team or because it's family tradition, etc.
That's the reason why they're fans today, and the reason they'll continue to be fans. It has virtually nothing to do with who's leading the scorer.

And the idea that teams are going to be "raided" annually is nonsense. The majority of mid- and low-major teams have no one on their rosters that the big programs want. Do you think Calipari is going to stop bringing in 3-4 McDonald's All Americans every year because he can get a guy who averaged 13 ppg at Austin Peay? Is Marquette going to start getting its players from UWGB and Northern Illinois?
As is the case today, the flow of players down will be much larger than the flow up.

Did I mention those programs in particular?  Nope.

Do I think some programs will drop...yes.  Hell, even fluffy admits that will happen.  EVERY D1 program that drops means LESS opportunities for kids, most of them women and minorities. 

You again aren't reading what I write, so I'll try again.  It's a domino effect.  Do I expect the Haves to raid Loyola Chicago or Evansville...no.  Do I expect them to raid someone like Seton Hall, Marquette, Mississippi State, Arkansas or St. Mary's?  Yes.   Hey Markus, you just lost the Hauser brothers and everyone is picking you for middle of the pack...you can stay at MU or come play at Duke where you have a chance to win a title.   Etc, etc.  You're damn right I expect that to happen because it will happen.   And then MU, SH, etc, etc will go lopping off kids from the next rung and away we go.

You essentially become a feeder system for whatever school is one piece away.   Today it already happens to a degree with graduate transfers...but a much lesser degree.  Allow this where anyone can leave whenever, all hell is going to break loose.  Way easier to recruit a kid that produced for a year or two at good school in a good conference than taking a flier on them. 

The flow of players down doesn't mean a hill of beans....of course that will happen.  When players go down those aren't the type of players that leave programs in a lurch.  Players going UP leave those teams struggling because of the talent loss, not the other way around.  When a major league team sends a kid down to the minors it isn't a hit for the major league team...no difference here.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2020, 08:29:21 PM »
It’s called the law of supply and demand. Does D1 college basketball really need 353 teams? Does D1 college football really need schools out of the P5, especially when the same few teams are always the winner?

Or, if they really cared about a free market, why don’t they reduce the number of scholarships available to spread the wealth and make sure all those other schools share in that DTV money? Or allow high school players to go right to the NBA? Or allow star players to get paid for their likenesses?

The answer: They are a cartel...and are trying control their haul. Did Northwestern football really need a $260 million football complex that’s ten times nicer than the Chicago Bears’ facilities?

I don't know if they do or do not....I only know what is current.  And CURRENTLY scholarships come with those programs at that level, which means if they go away so do the opportunities that go with them. 

I am fine with players going directly to the NBA and have argued so here a million times.  DO IT.  PLEASE GOD, DO IT.  Let the college kids play college and those that think they are pros get paid in the pros.  PLEASE...NBA get your CBA in order and DO IT!!!!

Northwestern can build a bingo parlor for all I care, that is their money as a private institution and can choose whatever the hell they wish to do with THEIR money. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2020, 08:31:37 PM »
Yep totally agree. I’ve never understood the argument that free agency would ruin the mid major ranks. If anything, the idea of immediate playing time may be more appealing for the 7-10th guy on a power 5 team who was over promised on playing time while being recruited.

It's not just the mid majors....and yes, it impacts the MAJORS as well.  If you're a really good player in a rebuild year on an average P6 school with at best a 50-50 shot to make postseason....why stay?  Why not go to an upper echelon team?  And that's where it all starts.  Mid Majors will be hurt, low majors will cut their programs, but high major programs are going to get hit as well and people have their heads in the sand to think this won't happen.

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Uncle Rico

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2020, 08:33:23 PM »
It's not just the mid majors....and yes, it impacts the MAJORS as well.  If you're a really good player in a rebuild year on an average P6 school with at best a 50-50 shot to make postseason....why stay?  Why not go to an upper echelon team?  And that's where it all starts.  Mid Majors will be hurt, low majors will cut their programs, but high major programs are going to get hit as well and people have their heads in the sand to think this won't happen.

Good
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Pakuni

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2020, 08:38:42 PM »
After months of arguing that this is catastrophic for low and mid-majors Cheeks has now informed us that it's programs like Marquette and Seton Hall that will be the real victims.



But love the crocodile tears for the athletes. I'm willing to wager the athletes support this change. If only they had Cheeks around to tell them a system that limits their options and punishes them for seeking better opportunities is totally in their best interests.

panda

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2020, 08:40:26 PM »
It's not just the mid majors....and yes, it impacts the MAJORS as well.  If you're a really good player in a rebuild year on an average P6 school with at best a 50-50 shot to make postseason....why stay?  Why not go to an upper echelon team?  And that's where it all starts.  Mid Majors will be hurt, low majors will cut their programs, but high major programs are going to get hit as well and people have their heads in the sand to think this won't happen.

And people said free agency would be the death of professional sports...

Jockey

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2020, 08:41:00 PM »
My read is that the players don’t like his style and it’s outdated. I believe the slugs/thugs issue maybe took this to the point of no return. It sounds like he lost the team. I’m not sure this is a Beilein volunteering to walk away scenario.



I was gonna say that even Boylan is a better NBA coach than Beilein, but some things just sound dumb when you say them out loud - whether they are true or not.

Cheeks

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2020, 08:41:35 PM »
Good

Yay 1%ers.  Take away those scholarships and opportunities.  Screw those minorities and women athletes.  Outstanding. 

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2020, 08:43:02 PM »
After months of arguing that this is catastrophic for low and mid-majors Cheeks has now informed us that it's programs like Marquette and Seton Hall that will be the real victims.



But love the crocodile tears for the athletes. I'm willing to wager the athletes support this change. If only they had Cheeks around to tell them a system that limits their options and punishes them for seeking better opportunities is totally in their best interests.

Go back and read....that was always part of the argument....going to apologize when shown that is the case? Of course you won't. 

Athletes support this....I'm sure the 1%ers will.  Now, interview the athletes after their programs are dropped and their opportunities gone because of the consequences.....ahh, but who gives a crap about them....right Pakuni. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Uncle Rico

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #71 on: February 17, 2020, 08:44:22 PM »
Yay 1%ers.  Take away those scholarships and opportunities.  Screw those minorities and women athletes.  Outstanding. 

Welcome to America
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Cheeks

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #72 on: February 17, 2020, 08:48:10 PM »
And people said free agency would be the death of professional sports...

Sigh, already destroyed Mikey's argument.  Yes, in fact free agency was destroying pro sports.  Guess what had to be done to fix it?  SALARY CAPS as a response.  Otherwise most of the best players were going to the HAVES, so they limited that movement.  It allowed Green Bay to actually be a decent franchise again.  It prevented the 49ers, Cowboys and a few others from monopolizing the talent.  They also did things like franchise tagging, etc.  Contracts also held players on to certain teams.  Same goes for the NBA with changes made two CBAs ago, because teams couldn't keep their best players so they allowed for max contracts now for the home teams....why....because free agency was destroying the NBA and making it about 5 to 7 teams.

But Panda, you are so smart I'm sure you knew this.

Now, tell me how in college sports you are going to do this?  You can't, which is why your statement is so utterly moronic. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

panda

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2020, 08:52:05 PM »
Sigh, already destroyed Mikey's argument.  Yes, in fact free agency was destroying pro sports.  Guess what had to be done to fix it?  SALARY CAPS as a response.  Otherwise most of the best players were going to the HAVES, so they limited that movement.  It allowed Green Bay to actually be a decent franchise again.  It prevented the 49ers, Cowboys and a few others from monopolizing the talent.  They also did things like franchise tagging, etc.  Contracts also held players on to certain teams.  Same goes for the NBA with changes made two CBAs ago, because teams couldn't keep their best players so they allowed for max contracts now for the home teams....why....because free agency was destroying the NBA and making it about 5 to 7 teams.

But Panda, you are so smart I'm sure you knew this.

Now, tell me how in college sports you are going to do this?  You can't, which is why your statement is so utterly moronic.

Student athletes don’t get paid so there’s no need for a salary cap.

Every school can only offer 13 scholarships.

Boom problem solved.

Uncle Rico

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Re: OT: Jay Wright to the Knicks??
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2020, 08:53:40 PM »
And people said free agency would be the death of professional sports...

It won’t ruin college sports either. 

College sports lust and greed is insatiable from the bottom to the top
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”