COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[GooooMarquette]

Johns Hopkins Data Chart U.S. and European Union:

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1282442536305426432?s=19

It just boggles the mind that the True Believers still accept the administration's BS that this is going to just disappear. Meanwhile millions get sick - often with long-term consequences if they are lucky enough to survive - and tens of thousands die.

Heartbreaking to see a nation with so much potential fail so miserably...

[pbiflyer]

Trump just Retweeted Chuck Woolery (yea game show host Chuck Woolery) saying the CDC is lying about everything.

[MUBurrow]

We were never going to get this right. As Americans, we pride ourselves on freedom above all else, and we've come to view freedom as antithetical to cooperation or shared sacrifice.

[Jockey]

Trump just Retweeted Chuck Woolery (yea game show host Chuck Woolery) saying the CDC is lying about everything.

Sickening.

But we knew they were gonna Fauci. There is no level the orange killer won't sink to. And he has the help of a party actively working to kill Americans.

[The Sultan]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/upshot/coronavirus-response-fax-machines.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Public health officials in Houston are struggling to keep up with one of the nation's largest coronavirus outbreaks. They are desperate to trace cases and quarantine patients before they spread the virus to others. But first, they must negotiate with the office fax machine.

The machine at the Harris County Public Health department in Houston recently became overwhelmed when one laboratory sent a large batch of test results, spraying hundreds of pages all over the floor.

[pbiflyer]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/upshot/coronavirus-response-fax-machines.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Public health officials in Houston are struggling to keep up with one of the nation's largest coronavirus outbreaks. They are desperate to trace cases and quarantine patients before they spread the virus to others. But first, they must negotiate with the office fax machine.

The machine at the Harris County Public Health department in Houston recently became overwhelmed when one laboratory sent a large batch of test results, spraying hundreds of pages all over the floor.

[Jockey]

White House is already sending out statements to News organizations criticizing Fauci.

No depths are too low for these people.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It's just part of the never ending attempt to shift blame. Its the fault of the WHO, Obama, the CDC, Biden, the media, Hillary, Democratic legislators, woman, people of color, Democratic Governors, CNN, and now Fauci. I'm sure I missed a few.

But the guy at the top? "I take no responsibility at all."

[The Sultan]

Even if the administration is right about their lack of fault back in January, February and March (and they're not), what is their excuse for May, June and July?

[withoutbias]

I don't know how it's possible to defend any of this.

[MarquetteDano]

I don't know how it's possible to defend any of this.

I think at this point a decent segment of society just doesn't care.  Someone asked very early in this thread that we may have to ask how much of the economy do we give up to save lives.  I think a fair bit of people in the US can deal with 250,000 deaths as long as 1% of GDP is saved.

[cheebs09]

Even if the administration is right about their lack of fault back in January, February and March (and they're not), what is their excuse for May, June and July?

Yea. I mean when the only success you can claim is shutting down travel from China early on, it's not a great story to tell.

It will be interesting to see how this goes. If Trump somehow starts going all-in on the mask, then he admits being wrong and probably loses a chunk of his base. If things keep going how they have been, things are going to keep getting worse.

It's crazy to think if he listened to experts and we had a controlled re-open with masks, the economy is probably roaring back and his re-election is very likely.

[Jockey]

It's crazy to think if he listened to experts and we had a controlled re-open with masks, the economy is probably roaring back and his re-election is very likely.

That would require knowing how to govern.

[The Sultan]

I think at this point a decent segment of society just doesn't care.  Someone asked very early in this thread that we may have to ask how much of the economy do we give up to save lives.  I think a fair bit of people in the US can deal with 250,000 deaths as long as 1% of GDP is saved.

I know you know this, but that's just a false choice.  The best way to fix the GDP is to get the virus under control.

It's like if you have a leak in your house that stains your drywall.  Sure you can paint over the drywall, but unless you fix the leak, the wall will continue to stain.

[MarquetteDano]

I know you know this, but that's just a false choice.  The best way to fix the GDP is to get the virus under control.

It's like if you have a leak in your house that stains your drywall.  Sure you can paint over the drywall, but unless you fix the leak, the wall will continue to stain.

Not necessarily disagreeing but their argument goes like this....

1. If you try to ensure not a single person dies,  things are so restrictive that the economy goes into Great Depression territory

2. If you don't care at all how many die,  the economy gets hit but not as bad as #1.

It appears that a large segment in society thinks it is better to be closer to #2 than #1.

[Coleman]

I think at this point a decent segment of society just doesn't care.  Someone asked very early in this thread that we may have to ask how much of the economy do we give up to save lives.  I think a fair bit of people in the US can deal with 250,000 deaths as long as 1% of GDP is saved.

And this, my friends, is the downside of capitalism.

Human lives become a cost of doing business.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Not necessarily disagreeing but their argument goes like this....

1. If you try to ensure not a single person dies,  things are so restrictive that the economy goes into Great Depression territory

2. If you don't care at all how many die,  the economy gets hit but not as bad as #1.

It appears that a large segment in society thinks it is better to be closer to #2 than #1.

Getting drawn into this hyperbole is actually the failure in and of itself. 

No country that navigated their initial peak successfully thought along the lines of these vectors.

[Pakuni]

Not necessarily disagreeing but their argument goes like this....

1. If you try to ensure not a single person dies,  things are so restrictive that the economy goes into Great Depression territory

2. If you don't care at all how many die,  the economy gets hit but not as bad as #1.

It appears that a large segment in society thinks it is better to be closer to #2 than #1.

These are both false choices and have been from the start.
Countries that have enacted strict measures to protect lives have not spiraled into Great Depression territory. Countries that have taken laissez faire approaches haven't seen their economies significantly less impacted than their neighbors with stricter lockdowns.

[GooooMarquette]

These are both false choices and have been from the start.
Countries that have enacted strict measures to protect lives have not spiraled into Great Depression territory. Countries that have taken laissez faire approaches haven't seen their economies significantly less impacted than their neighbors with stricter lockdowns.

Correct.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

Ever since the coronavirus emerged in Europe, Sweden has captured international attention by conducting an unorthodox, open-air experiment. It has allowed the world to examine what happens in a pandemic when a government allows life to carry on largely unhindered.

This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden's economy has fared little better.

"They literally gained nothing," said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. "It's a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains."

[MarquetteDano]

These are both false choices and have been from the start.
Countries that have enacted strict measures to protect lives have not spiraled into Great Depression territory. Countries that have taken laissez faire approaches haven't seen their economies significantly less impacted than their neighbors with stricter lockdowns.

I have probably have not stated their arguments concisely or correctly as I should.  Bottom line it seems like people are choosing between economy versus lives at this point.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I have probably have not stated their arguments concisely or correctly as I should.  Bottom line it seems like people are choosing between economy versus lives at this point.

I think your perception is right.  What folks are pointing out was that those were false choices from the beginning.  You can have lower levels of death and an improved economic outcome by controlling the virus.  Many countries are proving that in Asia today.  You can have higher levels of death and equal hit to economy...Sweden proved that.

[GooooMarquette]

California becomes the first state to head back toward stay-at-home mode. Not totally there yet, but with the broader restrictions in counties that make up 80% of the population, they're awfully close.

Amid surging cases, California imposes a sweeping rollback of its reopening plans

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-1acfaa7f

With cases surging in California, Gov. Gavin Newsom announced one of the most sweeping rollbacks of any state's reopening plans, saying Monday that he would move to close indoor operations statewide for restaurants, wineries, movie theaters, zoos and card rooms, and bars would be forced to close all operations.

And the governor said that in at least 30 of the hardest counties, business would be forced to close indoor operations for fitness centers, places of worship, non-critical offices, hair salons and barbershops and malls. Roughly 80 percent of the state's population lives in the affected counties, Mr. Newsom said.

---------------

So essentially back to essential services only for the vast majority of California's population.

[jesmu84]

California becomes the first state to head back toward stay-at-home mode. Not totally there yet, but with the broader restrictions in counties that make up 80% of the population, they're awfully close.

Amid surging cases, California imposes a sweeping rollback of its reopening plans

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/world/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage#link-1acfaa7f

With cases surging in California, Gov. Gavin Newsom announced one of the most sweeping rollbacks of any state's reopening plans, saying Monday that he would move to close indoor operations statewide for restaurants, wineries, movie theaters, zoos and card rooms, and bars would be forced to close all operations.

And the governor said that in at least 30 of the hardest counties, business would be forced to close indoor operations for fitness centers, places of worship, non-critical offices, hair salons and barbershops and malls. Roughly 80 percent of the state's population lives in the affected counties, Mr. Newsom said.

---------------

So essentially back to essential services only for the vast majority of California's population.

The designation of who/what is "essential" and what isn't, is a joke.

That said, we should be paying essential workers like they're essential. Not barely above poverty.

[Pakuni]

The designation of who/what is "essential" and what isn't, is a joke.

That said, we should be paying essential workers like they're essential. Not barely above poverty.

Yeah, it's been fun to see some businesses complain about not being able to hire people because unemployment is too generous.
Apparently paying people $15 an hour to do "essential" work during a pandemic is beyond the pale.

[Jockey]

Yeah, it's been fun to see some businesses complain about not being able to hire people because unemployment is too generous.
Apparently paying people $15 an hour to do "essential" work during a pandemic is beyond the pale.

I don't get that. The increased unemployment is for a limited time only.