COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[GooooMarquette]

A vaccine will the efficacy of the flu vaccine, combined with better theraputic treatments, will be plenty to get society back to "normal."

Agreed. Even a "sort of effective" vaccine could make a huge difference when we're teetering on the edge between more overflowing hospitals and an even worse financial crisis.

To me, the bigger concerns right now are inadequate testing and non-existent contact tracing. Dramatic increases in both are a prerequisite to rationally reopening the economy. POTUS and CDC - can you hear me?!?

[forgetful]

Vaccine, not so much. At least not in the sense of inoculating people against getting the virus. Maybe something as effective as a flu shot, but the efficacy of that varies a lot from year to year.

Something as effective as the flu shot would be amazing. The flu-vaccine is quite effective. The problem is the flu mutates rapidly, and there are so many strains out there, that we are guessing which strains will be prevalent each year.

From a vaccine standpoint, there is one strain of SARS-COV2, and the region they are targeting does not mutate as rapidly as the flu. The problem is, we don't know if you get long term immunity.

My hope is that even if you don't get true immunity, later rounds of infection are at least milder, so that instead of being hospitalized/ICU/dead, you are looking at the worst cases being, very ill/hospitalized/ICU.

Where we knock down the degree of severity one notch.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This study is somewhat good news.  A lot more of us have this than we can measure (50-80x). 

Bad news still not enough to make progress on herd immunity. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/493391-california-antibody-testing-suggests-coronavirus-may-be-far-more-widespread

[Pakuni]

Oh, good God, these people...

@WillieGeist: White House economic advisor Stephen Moore says Americans protesting stay-at-home orders are "modern-day Rosa Parks."

"I call these people the modern-day Rosa Parks — they are protesting against injustice and a loss of liberties." @WashingtonPost https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rallies-against-stay-at-home-orders-grow-as-trump-sides-with-protesters/2020/04/17/1405ba54-7f4e-11ea-8013-1b6da0e4a2b7_story.html

[forgetful]

This study is somewhat good news.  A lot more of us have this than we can measure (50-80x). 

Bad news still not enough to make progress on herd immunity. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/493391-california-antibody-testing-suggests-coronavirus-may-be-far-more-widespread

While interesting, these studies (another from Massachusetts, where 1/3 of people test positive), are confusing.

With lockdowns in place, where and how are they getting infected. If these results are true, then the idea that this is primarily spread by droplets is wrong. There aren't enough people being exposed to droplets in the air for those levels of infection.

The 2nd aspect, both studies used tests that haven't been approved by the FDA. Are these tests even working? And why do these results conflict with approved testing regimes that are seeing that only 10% of symptomatic people are testing positive.

[Pakuni]

While interesting, these studies (another from Massachusetts, where 1/3 of people test positive), are confusing.

With lockdowns in place, where and how are they getting infected. If these results are true, then the idea that this is primarily spread by droplets is wrong. There aren't enough people being exposed to droplets in the air for those levels of infection.

The 2nd aspect, both studies used tests that haven't been approved by the FDA. Are these tests even working? And why do these results conflict with approved testing regimes that are seeing that only 10% of symptomatic people are testing positive.

I think you may be overestimating the extent of the lockdowns and how strictly people are adhering to them.
I had to go to the grocery store yesterday and while I wouldn't say the place was packed, it was busy - busier than most Friday mornings (when I typically do my grocery shopping).

[TSmith34, Inc.]

POTUS and CDC - can you hear me?!?

Trump has been very clear he isn't going to do anything about testing. He is shoving it on the states. He said early and often that he doesn't want "the numbers" to be high, which is what testing would show. Widespread testing will increase not only the number of confirmed cases, but increase the death toll as well since many who die now are never tested.

The lower the confirmed numbers, the more he is able to declare victory. It is demented, but it is true, and he has said this out loud. "I like the numbers being where they are. I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship". Instead of being concerned with the health crisis, he was worried about the numbers. It is a running theme. Who else would be fixed on the ratings of his press conference??

[pbiflyer]

Oh, good God, these people...

@WillieGeist: White House economic advisor Stephen Moore says Americans protesting stay-at-home orders are "modern-day Rosa Parks."

"I call these people the modern-day Rosa Parks — they are protesting against injustice and a loss of liberties." @WashingtonPost https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rallies-against-stay-at-home-orders-grow-as-trump-sides-with-protesters/2020/04/17/1405ba54-7f4e-11ea-8013-1b6da0e4a2b7_story.html

So the White House is telling us to social distance and protest social distancing at the same time. What a cluster they are.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

So the White House is telling us to social distance and protest social distancing at the same time. What a cluster they are.

Cluster might imply that it is accidental. It most definitely is intentional. Some here call it "outstanding leadership".

[MU82]

So the White House is telling us to social distance and protest social distancing at the same time. What a cluster they are.

The White House laid out a reasonable well-constructed, 3-phase plan to gradually re-open the economy, area by area.

Then, hours later, the White House sent out a tweet applauding protesters for ignoring the White House's own plan.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Oh, good God, these people...

@WillieGeist: White House economic advisor Stephen Moore says Americans protesting stay-at-home orders are "modern-day Rosa Parks."

"I call these people the modern-day Rosa Parks — they are protesting against injustice and a loss of liberties." @WashingtonPost https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rallies-against-stay-at-home-orders-grow-as-trump-sides-with-protesters/2020/04/17/1405ba54-7f4e-11ea-8013-1b6da0e4a2b7_story.html

I call them a****les who are going to end up with Coronavirus.

[Lennys Tap]

Florida updates:

- Rich residents of an island get their own test for themselves and their workers: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/fisher-island-miami-coronavirus-antibody-testing/index.html

- Florida beaches will reopen beginning this evening.

One week ago the IHME website was predicting more than 4700 would die in Florida and that the peak would be May 3rd. Now projecting 1363 death with the peak already behind us.

[WarriorDad]

Look Lenny, it was met with xenophobia and cries of racism by idiots.  You know and I know it.  I'm a pretty liberal guy, and I applauded the measure of closing borders because it was the most logical thing to do at the time.  But please stop pretending like the criticism of the travel ban was wide spread.

And do you honestly think that China intentionally, and maliciously spread this virus around the world?

It was fairly widespread and pushed by members of they party and media that are not portrayed as idiots here usually.  Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Vox, New York Times, Buzzfeed, and others did say it was xenophobic.

The problem we have come to as a nation is that people who hate Trump will attack whatever he does only because it is him.  Good decisions by him are automatically labeled.  He has brought that on himself with media attacks, but they want to take him down so badly that their initial response is to attack. 

Much of the attacks are deserved, but when it becomes the default response we are no better than when he attacks everyone.  I can turn on FOX and know most of what I will see is positive coverage of the administration.  I can turn on CNN and MSNBC and know probably 95% or higher will be negative.  All three are wrong, but it is that predictable to the point it isn't worth watching.

[reinko]

It was fairly widespread and pushed by members of they party and media that are not portrayed as idiots here usually.  Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Vox, New York Times, Buzzfeed, and others did say it was xenophobic.

The problem we have come to as a nation is that people who hate Trump will attack whatever he does only because it is him.  Good decisions by him are automatically labeled.  He has brought that on himself with media attacks, but they want to take him down so badly that their initial response is to attack. 

Much of the attacks are deserved, but when it becomes the default response we are no better than when he attacks everyone.  I can turn on FOX and know most of what I will see is positive coverage of the administration.  I can turn on CNN and MSNBC and know probably 95% or higher will be negative.  All three are wrong, but it is that predictable to the point it isn't worth watching.

Sources on Biden, Sanders, and news orgs (not editorial pieces) calling POTUS xenophobic?

[Hards Alumni]

It was fairly widespread and pushed by members of they party and media that are not portrayed as idiots here usually.  Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Vox, New York Times, Buzzfeed, and others did say it was xenophobic.

The problem we have come to as a nation is that people who hate Trump will attack whatever he does only because it is him.  Good decisions by him are automatically labeled.  He has brought that on himself with media attacks, but they want to take him down so badly that their initial response is to attack. 

Much of the attacks are deserved, but when it becomes the default response we are no better than when he attacks everyone.  I can turn on FOX and know most of what I will see is positive coverage of the administration.  I can turn on CNN and MSNBC and know probably 95% or higher will be negative.  All three are wrong, but it is that predictable to the point it isn't worth watching.

So you're done pretending now.  That's nice.  The first person you should be honest with is yourself.

[WarriorDad]

Sources on Biden, Sanders, and news orgs (not editorial pieces) calling POTUS xenophobic?

Joe Biden  Feb 1st  https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1223727977361338370?s=20

"We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump's record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering."  Biden's twitter statement came out hours after the travel ban put into effect.

The New York Times quoted epidemiologist Dr. Michael Osterholm as saying that Trump's decision to restrict travel from China was "more of an emotional or political reaction." on the day of the ban.

Vox; "The evidence on travel bans for diseases like coronavirus is clear: They don't work."  Vox also said on January 31st (the day of the travel ban) "Is this going to be a deadly pandemic? No."   They later deleted the tweet.
https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1243086314330656774/photo/1

[WarriorDad]

So you're done pretending now.  That's nice.  The first person you should be honest with is yourself.

I'm not a far left partisan like you are. Do you understand that though we are shrinking, there is a decent number of moderates that are Democrats.  We may not be as liberal as you are, but your attacks on anything not in your belief system is what continues to degrade dialogue in this country.  Both sides do it.  The right and the left.

[MU82]

Joe Biden  Feb 1st  https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1223727977361338370?s=20

"We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump's record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering."  Biden's twitter statement came out hours after the travel ban put into effect.

The New York Times quoted epidemiologist Dr. Michael Osterholm as saying that Trump's decision to restrict travel from China was "more of an emotional or political reaction." on the day of the ban.

Vox; "The evidence on travel bans for diseases like coronavirus is clear: They don't work."  Vox also said on January 31st (the day of the travel ban) "Is this going to be a deadly pandemic? No."   They later deleted the tweet.
https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1243086314330656774/photo/1

As you can see, Biden did not call that xenophobia. He said the Racist In Chief had a "record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering." There's a difference.

And no links from "Bernie Sanders, New York Times or Buzzfeed."

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Back to the topic at hand--the article below is about a German anti-body study and their path to reopening.

This quote is amazing.

Mr. Hoelscher got the idea for the antibody study in the shower. It was March 19, the day before the state of Bavaria announced its lockdown.

"I thought to myself if we're going into lockdown, we need to start working on an exit strategy now," he said.

The next day, he said he wrote a short pitch to the Bavarian government. Six hours later, he had the green light. It took another three weeks until the test kits had arrived, a new lab was opened and teams of medics started fanning out across the city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html

[Hards Alumni]

I'm not a far left partisan like you are. Do you understand that though we are shrinking, there is a decent number of moderates that are Democrats.  We may not be as liberal as you are, but your attacks on anything not in your belief system is what continues to degrade dialogue in this country.  Both sides do it.  The right and the left.

No, you're a far right partisan masquerading as someone you're not.  You constantly drop far right talking points, and then try to play the 'both sides' card.  As if people around here are stupid enough to fall for your lame attempts at moderation.

Dude, just be honest with us all, and drop the act, Jamie, you're not fooling anyone.

[4everwarriors]

Uncle Joe will handle COVID-9 just fine now that he doesn't have to worry about Super Thursday anymore, hey?

[forgetful]

Back to the topic at hand--the article below is about a German anti-body study and their path to reopening.

This quote is amazing.

Mr. Hoelscher got the idea for the antibody study in the shower. It was March 19, the day before the state of Bavaria announced its lockdown.

"I thought to myself if we're going into lockdown, we need to start working on an exit strategy now," he said.

The next day, he said he wrote a short pitch to the Bavarian government. Six hours later, he had the green light. It took another three weeks until the test kits had arrived, a new lab was opened and teams of medics started fanning out across the city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html

Great story, and I echo you sentiment on staying on the topic at hand.

It is sad that I don't think we have an exit strategy even now, in regards to proper testing and tracking of patients. We need action.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

New Haven just set up a drive up test station with the Abbot Lab 5 min test.  Right off the I91 & I95 interchange.
Anyone can sign up online to schedule their time slot.

[Hards Alumni]

Uncle Joe will handle COVID-9 just fine now that he doesn't have to worry about Super Thursday anymore, hey?

Interesting that you don't see the irony in pointing out Biden's snafus when your buddy in the White House is a walking talking gaffe machine.

[pbiflyer]

Interesting that you don't see the irony in pointing out Biden's snafus when your buddy in the White House is a walking talking gaffe machine.

Quit badmouthing trump. Didn't you see where he saved billions of American lives? How ungrateful!