COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

They locked Wuhan down from the rest of China. But not from the rest of the world. They knew what they were "exporting". The rest of the world (early on) had no idea what they were "importing". If we knew exactly what we were "importing" why was Trump's travel ban from China met with hostility and cries of racism and xenophobia?

Lenny - Dont you think the last part is hyperbolic?  I mean you can find people supporting or whining about anything, but the travel ban has been one of the Presidents least controversial decisions on this topic.  Many corporations had already deployed this ban (and quarantining employees who were in China in Early Jan) weeks ahead as well...so really not that surprising.

[Hards Alumni]

They locked Wuhan down from the rest of China. But not from the rest of the world. They knew what they were "exporting". The rest of the world (early on) had no idea what they were "importing". If we knew exactly what we were "importing" why was Trump's travel ban from China met with hostility and cries of racism and xenophobia?

Look Lenny, it was met with xenophobia and cries of racism by idiots.  You know and I know it.  I'm a pretty liberal guy, and I applauded the measure of closing borders because it was the most logical thing to do at the time.  But please stop pretending like the criticism of the travel ban was wide spread.

And do you honestly think that China intentionally, and maliciously spread this virus around the world?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Moral equivalency for (probably accidentally) creating and then knowingly exporting a killer virus (while protecting your own citizens) and doing a less than perfect job of dealing with one that was sent to you(Spain, Italy, USA, the entire world)? Really?

Less than perfect? 

Hilarious.

[rocky_warrior]

Japan to State of Emergency. There's just no current way out.

Despite the rest of the post - and replies to it.  This is actually a pretty big deal.  Japan has a very high percentage of people that wear masks - even for common everyday things.  So the fact that they're seeing a high rate of spread - for a droplet born pathogen - in a mask wearing county = bad.

[Jay Bee]

If, indeed, Wuhan was "knowingly exporting the virus" here, their leaders must have been freakin' delighted that our leader was ignoring most red flags, lying to his citizens over and over and over and over (and over) again, screaming at rallies about Dem hoaxes, and proclaiming that it was just like the common flu.

Dude/dudette, try to reign it in a bit. I know you dont have to follow the rules here that many of us have to, but it's over the top. Sad!

[Jockey]

Not quite everything. They were still actively and knowingly exporting the virus to the rest of the world.

You think China intentionally spread the virus around the world?

[forgetful]

Wuhan had 'unknown' spread for Dec & Jan--so your comment is more about once they responded. 

NYC had 'unknown spread' essentially end Jan, Feb and early Mar. before lock down.  So same time duration -- ~2 months. 

Unlike some here trying to extrapolate things to policies, reactions, etc, my comment is just about numbers and based on us seeing the virus spread in multiple areas unchecked (like wuhan) they are too low to be real.

The problem is, you cannot say they are too low to be real, unless you also consider policies and reactions. The reason is this, you are right, that there was a similar amount of 'unknown spread' up until things were locked down. So if the lock downs were equivalent, we'd expect the same numbers of cases/deaths.

They were not equivalent.

The police state in Wuhan was able to rapidly decrease the R0 to around 0.2-0.4. That means you have to have 3-5 cases to have each new case.

The difference in policies in NYC, only recently was able to decrease R0 below 1, most of the time it was in the 1.4-2 range. That means for most of the lockdown, each case was generating 1.4-2 new infections. Only recently has that got to the point that less than 1 new case for each infection.

The result is NYC was in exponential growth longer, and should have expected dramatically higher case counts.

I'm honestly not faulting anyone there. We are not a police state, nor should we be one. But the fact is, that the police state was able to have a greater impact on R0, and then should have significantly fewer cases. That's just science. Still think there are aspects of China's numbers that are BS, but I don't think they are off considerably.

[forgetful]

Not quite everything. They were still actively and knowingly exporting the virus to the rest of the world.

Serious question, because I don't know the answer. How much of that travel you are referring to were expats returning to their home of residence?

All nations directed that their citizens/nationals need to be able to return from Wuhan. So China could not cease all travel, because the international community did not permit it. Even our "ban" was not a ban, US nationals were allowed to travel.

[MU82]

Dude/dudette, try to reign it in a bit. I know you dont have to follow the rules here that many of us have to, but it's over the top. Sad!

There are no rules because, according to at least one Scooper, we're all gonna die.

Like we used to say to our kids when they were trying to boss each other around: "Jay Bee worry about Jay Bee."

Have a nice day, and stay well.

[MU82]

Which is why it's also smart for governors to form pacts to defray as well. Ultimately, governors need to continue ring the bell that all uncertainty is due to a lack of federal response (still!) to testing.

They're not only forming pacts but also holding the feds to the promises that the feds made.

For example, our governor here in NC, said this after a conference call with Trump, Pence and other governors:

"I laid out what's required for North Carolina's path to gradual re-opening, and it's good the White House has shared similar guidance, but we still need the federal government to help with testing and personal protective equipment."

[MU82]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200417&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=25406&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Trump on Friday began openly fomenting far-right protests of social distancing restrictions in states where groups of his conservative supporters have been violating stay-at-home orders, less than a day after announcing guidelines for how governors could decide on an orderly reopening of their communities.

In a series of all-caps tweets, Mr. Trump declared "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" and "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!" — two states whose Democratic governors have imposed social distancing restrictions that have shut down businesses and schools and forced people to remain at home. He also tweeted "LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!"

Mr. Trump's tweets were a remarkable example of a president egging on demonstrators.

Earlier this week, more than 1,000 protesters organized by conservative groups created a traffic jam on the streets around the State Capitol in Lansing, to complain that the restrictions were bad for small businesses. Other protesters, not in vehicles, waved banners in support of Mr. Trump and protested Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, who has been a target of Mr. Trump's ire, by chanting, "Lock her up."

In St. Paul, Minnesota, a group calling itself "Liberate Minnesota" has scheduled a protest in violation of stay-at-home orders in front of the home of Gov. Tim Walz and claims that 500 people are likely to show up. The group's Facebook page says that "now is the time to demand Governor Walz and our state legislators end this lock down!"

Mr. Trump's tweets began just moments after a Fox News report by Mike Tobin, a reporter for the network, about protests in Minnesota and elsewhere. The report featured a protester from Virginia saying "those of us who are healthy and want to get out of our house and do business, we need to get this going again. It's time."

The message of support for those efforts from Mr. Trump is radically different from the one he delivered from the White House on Thursday evening. During a briefing for reporters, the president unveiled guidelines that governors could use to decide when it was safe to phase out restrictions to minimize the chance of a resurgence of the dangerous pathogen.

Dangerous. Dishonest. Disingenuous.

[Jockey]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200417&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=25406&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa


He also tweeted "LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!"

We're just gonna shoot that dang coronavirus straight to h@ll.

[jesmu84]

Florida updates:

- Rich residents of an island get their own test for themselves and their workers: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/fisher-island-miami-coronavirus-antibody-testing/index.html

- Florida beaches will reopen beginning this evening.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/us/coronavirus-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200417&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=25406&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Trump on Friday began openly fomenting far-right protests of social distancing restrictions in states where groups of his conservative supporters have been violating stay-at-home orders, less than a day after announcing guidelines for how governors could decide on an orderly reopening of their communities.

In a series of all-caps tweets, Mr. Trump declared "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" and "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!" — two states whose Democratic governors have imposed social distancing restrictions that have shut down businesses and schools and forced people to remain at home. He also tweeted "LIBERATE VIRGINIA, and save your great 2nd Amendment. It is under siege!"

Mr. Trump's tweets were a remarkable example of a president egging on demonstrators.

Earlier this week, more than 1,000 protesters organized by conservative groups created a traffic jam on the streets around the State Capitol in Lansing, to complain that the restrictions were bad for small businesses. Other protesters, not in vehicles, waved banners in support of Mr. Trump and protested Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, who has been a target of Mr. Trump's ire, by chanting, "Lock her up."

In St. Paul, Minnesota, a group calling itself "Liberate Minnesota" has scheduled a protest in violation of stay-at-home orders in front of the home of Gov. Tim Walz and claims that 500 people are likely to show up. The group's Facebook page says that "now is the time to demand Governor Walz and our state legislators end this lock down!"

Mr. Trump's tweets began just moments after a Fox News report by Mike Tobin, a reporter for the network, about protests in Minnesota and elsewhere. The report featured a protester from Virginia saying "those of us who are healthy and want to get out of our house and do business, we need to get this going again. It's time."

The message of support for those efforts from Mr. Trump is radically different from the one he delivered from the White House on Thursday evening. During a briefing for reporters, the president unveiled guidelines that governors could use to decide when it was safe to phase out restrictions to minimize the chance of a resurgence of the dangerous pathogen.

Dangerous. Dishonest. Disingenuous.

Impressive displays of stupidity all around.

[pbiflyer]

Look Lenny, it was met with xenophobia and cries of racism by idiots.  You know and I know it.  I'm a pretty liberal guy, and I applauded the measure of closing borders because it was the most logical thing to do at the time.  But please stop pretending like the criticism of the travel ban was wide spread.

Serious question, because I don't know the answer. How much of that travel you are referring to were expats returning to their home of residence?

All nations directed that their citizens/nationals need to be able to return from Wuhan. So China could not cease all travel, because the international community did not permit it. Even our "ban" was not a ban, US nationals were allowed to travel.

Most of the criticism was for two reasons:
1. It was too late. All US carriers had already stopped flying by the time the ban was issued.
2. It only included  Chinese nationals. Everyone else was allowed into the US. A total of over 40,000 people, including from the hardest hit areas in China. That is where the racism criticism came in.  And there was no plan in place to quarantine or even test those people arriving from China. Obviously, they could not prevent US citizens from coming home, but they should have at least had a plan in place to mitigate the spread from those people.

[GooooMarquette]

So now that POTUS has declared this a problem for states to solve, there's no need for a daily COVID campaign rally in the rose garden, right?

[pbiflyer]

Impressive displays of stupidity all around.

[Warriors4ever]

We need to stop calling it a travel ban, as stated it was never a ban, tens of thousands of people entered the country after the 'ban'.

[MU82]

Impressive displays of stupidity all around.

Yesterday, President Pandemic stood in front of all American citizens and presented the guidelines and milestones necessary for states to start "re-opening."

Today, he told extremists to protest that their states weren't open already -- guidelines and milestones be damned.

Also, interesting that he wasn't too interested in these protests:

Not all the protests were aimed at Democratic governors: In Ohio, around 100 protesters gathered outside the Statehouse during an appearance by Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican. And in St. George, Utah, demonstrators showed up with signs reading "Resist like it's 1776" and "America will never be a socialist country," after the Republican governor, Gary Herbert, instructed residents to stay at home.

Where were the LIBERATE OHIO and LIBERATE UTAH twits?

[Jockey]

Yesterday, President Pandemic stood in front of all American citizens and presented the guidelines and milestones necessary for states to start "re-opening."

Today, he told extremists to protest that their states weren't open already -- guidelines and milestones be damned.

Also, interesting that he wasn't too interested in these protests:

Not all the protests were aimed at Democratic governors: In Ohio, around 100 protesters gathered outside the Statehouse during an appearance by Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican. And in St. George, Utah, demonstrators showed up with signs reading "Resist like it's 1776" and "America will never be a socialist country," after the Republican governor, Gary Herbert, instructed residents to stay at home.

Where were the LIBERATE OHIO and LIBERATE UTAH twits?

I'm just glad the Utah patriots brought up socialism. That's what Covid is all about

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I'm just glad the Utah patriots brought up socialism. That's what Covid is all about

Did they buy their sign materials with their stimulus checks?

[Jockey]

Did they buy their sign materials with their stimulus checks?

I'm a little slow today, T. I had to read that twice

[Pakuni]

Look Lenny, it was met with xenophobia and cries of racism by idiots.  You know and I know it.  I'm a pretty liberal guy, and I applauded the measure of closing borders because it was the most logical thing to do at the time.  But please stop pretending like the criticism of the travel ban was wide spread.

This is exactly correct. The Fox News spin that Trump was ahead of the game when he boldly called for travel restrictions that the media and Democrats called racist has no basis in reality. The move was neither bold nor early, and other than a very few on the fringe, there were no cries of racism.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/27/donald-trump/fact-checking-whether-biden-called-trump-xenophobi/

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-travel-restrictions/

[MU82]

The latest Pew poll shows that nearly 2/3rds of Americans polled say Trump was too slow in his initial response to the coronavirus threat. Also, almost the exact same majority of Americans polled say they are more concerned that governments will lift COVID-19 related restrictions too quickly than they are that restrictions will not be lifted quickly enough ...

https://www.people-press.org/2020/04/16/most-americans-say-trump-was-too-slow-in-initial-response-to-coronavirus-threat/?campaign_id=56&emc=edit_cn_20200417&instance_id=17722&nl=on-politics-with-lisa-lerer&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=25379&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

Notable in the above is that even the majority of Republicans polled (51%) worry about governments being too quick to end restrictions.

Meanwhile, here's a fun little skirmish between Trump and Cuomo ...

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/04/17/in-trump-cuomo-spat-on-coronavirus-the-gloves-come-off/24016749/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook&fbclid=IwAR1Rz0hvD24_5yC3P75y25qcCLAJ07z5U6L5g0wvoEoZQKTBUGD_YL8ks1Y

The most fun part of Trump's tweet was the one in which he told Cuomo: "Your numbers are not good."

Of course ... do I even have to tell anybody? ... Cuomo's approval ratings are considerably higher than Trump's. I mean, it's not even close.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/approval_rating/governor/ny/governor_cuomo_job_approval-3502.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

[GooooMarquette]

I am not a big fan of POTUS delegating this entirely to the states, but once he did this I wish he would stick to it. But he can't help himself. Yesterday, "states can decide." Today, "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!!," "LIBERATE MINNESOTA!!," "LIBERATE VIRGINIA!!"

So does he want states to follow his deliberate 3-phase plan, or not?

Don't his supporters see the inherent inconsistency in these messages?