COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[The Sultan]

That aside, I am curious what course of action(s) people who are critical would have wanted/suggested?

A question repeatedly answered in this thread.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Unfortunate it began in China, and they report 82k cases in a country of 1.4B?  The blame for this pandemic lies squarely at the feet of China.  They are the true enemy to the U.S., and in this case the globe. All outrage and anger should be directed there, first and foremost.

you are deflecting as a defense?

not surprising

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Unfortunate it began in China, and they report 82k cases in a country of 1.4B?  The blame for this pandemic lies squarely at the feet of China.  They are the true enemy to the U.S., and in this case the globe. All outrage and anger should be directed there, first and foremost.

Right, I was just responding to the talking point that I believe originated with the RNC and Mitch McConnell that the President's slow/non-reaction was because Democrats were distracting him. The actions that could have/should have been taken have been discussed previously.

And yes, this originated in China, and I agree with everyone that their numbers are highly suspicious. Unfortunately I don't know what control we, the U.S., or the world has over that.  The U.S. did, however, have control over our own situation. Unless you subscribe to Tom Cotton's conspiracy theory that this is a bio-weapon engineered and purposefully released by the Chinese, blaming them is of little use IMO.

[Eldon]

'Team Umizoomi Actually Kind Of Interesting,' Reports Stay-At-Home Dad On Verge Of Full Psychotic Breakdown

https://local.theonion.com/team-umizoomi-actually-kind-of-interesting-reports-s-1840172408

[GooooMarquette]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/us/politics/navarro-warning-trump-coronavirus.html

I think this article about a memo from Navarro to Trump - and the severely high numbers contained within - from January is even more interesting.

Feel free to cross-reference that time frame with public commentary from the administration.

This to me is the most damning piece of evidence about how Trump ignored the warnings. No "unnamed sources," but rather a very high level Administration official, which totally negates any claim that Trump acted as soon as he had any idea that it might be bad. And in yesterday's campaign event, Trump denied reading the memos. But honestly, it doesn't matter - he had the information at his fingertips, and did nothing about it for weeks.

[Elonsmusk]

A question repeatedly answered in this thread.

I was late to this party that has now swollen to a 142 page thread.  So, didn't see what the consensus solutions offered were, by those who are most critical/frustrated with the Administrations response.  My biggest frustration:

- No Nationwide lockdown - though I can understand the "why" as to why that wasn't implemented  I do not feel leaving each state to decide on their own was the right call.

- Trump calling it a Democratic hoax was stupid AF, not the first or last time he'll make a dumb comment.  However, after the Russian collusion and Impeachment proceedings, he no doubt was on the attack.

I believe that even with the stark warning from Navarro at end of January, shutting down travel from China was a pretty big step (had never been done before, nor had any other country in the world taken such a step.)

That aside, based on the data, reported numbers that came out during month of February and even first week of March - would ANYONE really have shut the economy down at that point?  States weren't shutting things down, schools were in session, etc.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

This to me is the most damning piece of evidence about how Trump ignored the warnings. No "unnamed sources," but rather a very high level Administration official, which totally negates any claim that Trump acted as soon as he had any idea that it might be bad. And in yesterday's campaign event, Trump denied reading the memos. But honestly, it doesn't matter - he had the information at his fingertips, and did nothing about it for weeks.

One more from The Onion


Damning Report Finds White House Ignored Skeletal Horsemen Galloping Through Sky As Early As January
https://www.theonion.com/damning-report-finds-white-house-ignored-skeletal-horse-1842754580?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email

[jesmu84]

I was late to this party that has now swollen to a 142 page thread.  So, didn't see what the consensus solutions offered were, by those who are most critical/frustrated with the Administrations response.  My biggest frustration:

- No Nationwide lockdown - though I can understand the "why" as to why that wasn't implemented  I do not feel leaving each state to decide on their own was the right call.

- Trump calling it a Democratic hoax was stupid AF, not the first or last time he'll make a dumb comment.  However, after the Russian collusion and Impeachment proceedings, he no doubt was on the attack.

I believe that even with the stark warning from Navarro at end of January, shutting down travel from China was a pretty big step (had never been done before, nor had any other country in the world taken such a step.)

That aside, based on the data, reported numbers that came out during month of February and even first week of March - would ANYONE really have shut the economy down at that point?  States weren't shutting things down, schools were in session, etc.

I'll give you a super easy one: mobilize whatever federal resources necessary to ensure our healthcare workers have the supplies they would need when the pandemic hit us. That could have been down early on and likely would have helped.

[tower912]

If an emergency order for millions of gowns, N95s, surgical masks, face shields, gloves, soap, disinfectant, etc. had been placed in the first couple weeks of January, the federal government would be the heroes right now.   

[GooooMarquette]

One more from The Onion


Damning Report Finds White House Ignored Skeletal Horsemen Galloping Through Sky As Early As January
https://www.theonion.com/damning-report-finds-white-house-ignored-skeletal-horse-1842754580?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email

Thanks - I really needed the laugh!

[MU82]

The blame for this pandemic lies squarely at the feet of China.

Well, Ners, you're not blaming Wojo, so I guess that's progress!

How should President Pandemic have handled things differently, you asked ...

How about not forcing states to bid against each other and the federal government for PPE and ventilators?

How about not denying aid and equipment to states whose governors he doesn't like?

How about not letting maintenance contracts on life-saving equipment lapse in 2018 and not dismantling the NSC's global health security office that same year?

How about not lying to the American public dozens (if not hundreds) of times about the severity of the problem? Those lies were backed up by endless lies from his embarrassingly cloying Fox News cohorts, insuring that millions upon millions of gullible people would totally dismiss the coming pandemic.

How about not letting his red-state buddies keep beaches and churches open to serve as COVID-19 incubators?

How about not pushing his experts aside at his press conferences and then contradicting what they said, giving Americans a false sense of security?

How about educating himself as to how pandemics spread and not pretending we'd be down to "close to zero" cases "within days"?

Having listened to his experts (which he didn't) and educating himself (which he didn't), how about stockpiling the equipment we would need to survive the pandemic without so much loss of life?

How about, instead of going to rallies and getting his easily conned followers into a lather over the Dem "hoax," he had been honest with them instead? Maybe doing so would have convinced the deniers that this thing was serious. Maybe had they been led properly by their emperor, they would have paid more attention to social-distancing rules and other strong recommendations.

Once it was here and infecting people, how about getting extremely proactive by ensuring adequate PPE supplies, convincing governors (especially those friendly to him) to shut down their states, etc.

How about putting competent people, preferably those not married to his daughter, in charge of the effort?

How about taking even a smidge of responsibility for any of this?

How about not patting himself on the back if "only" 100K die?

Etc, etc, etc ... as discussed many times earlier in this thread.

I made the joke about Wojo to start this post, Ners, but I do find it funny that you are ever willing to hold a basketball coach accountable for failings on his watch -- so willing that you'll go on and on and on until you get yourself banned multiple times. But you are not willing to hold the president of the United States accountable for failings on his watch.

[GooooMarquette]

^^^

Solid list, MU82.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

^^^

Solid list, MU82.

Was going to say the same.

Impressive like you were a columnist once upon a time!

FWIW - David Frum supposedly has a blistering 13 page one just out today at The Atlantic going into detail on all of this.  I have not seen yet.

[The Sultan]

Well, Ners, you're not blaming Wojo, so I guess that's progress!

How should President Pandemic have handled things differently, you asked ...

How about not forcing states to bid against each other and the federal government for PPE and ventilators?

How about not denying aid and equipment to states whose governors he doesn't like?

How about not letting maintenance contracts on life-saving equipment lapse in 2018 and not dismantling the NSC's global health security office that same year?

How about not lying to the American public dozens (if not hundreds) of times about the severity of the problem? Those lies were backed up by endless lies from his embarrassingly cloying Fox News cohorts, insuring that millions upon millions of gullible people would totally dismiss the coming pandemic.

How about not letting his red-state buddies keep beaches and churches open to serve as COVID-19 incubators?

How about not pushing his experts aside at his press conferences and then contradicting what they said, giving Americans a false sense of security?

How about educating himself as to how pandemics spread and not pretending we'd be down to "close to zero" cases "within days"?

Having listened to his experts (which he didn't) and educating himself (which he didn't), how about stockpiling the equipment we would need to survive the pandemic without so much loss of life?

How about, instead of going to rallies and getting his easily conned followers into a lather over the Dem "hoax," he had been honest with them instead? Maybe doing so would have convinced the deniers that this thing was serious. Maybe had they been led properly by their emperor, they would have paid more attention to social-distancing rules and other strong recommendations.

Once it was here and infecting people, how about getting extremely proactive by ensuring adequate PPE supplies, convincing governors (especially those friendly to him) to shut down their states, etc.

How about putting competent people, preferably those not married to his daughter, in charge of the effort?

How about taking even a smidge of responsibility for any of this?

How about not patting himself on the back if "only" 100K die?

Etc, etc, etc ... as discussed many times earlier in this thread.

I made the joke about Wojo to start this post, Ners, but I do find it funny that you are ever willing to hold a basketball coach accountable for failings on his watch -- so willing that you'll go on and on and on until you get yourself banned multiple times. But you are not willing to hold the president of the United States accountable for failings on his watch.

A big one.  Sending mixed messages about the length needed to stay at home.  Saying that he wanted things open by Easter and that "the cure can't be worse than the disease," which caused the Texas Lt Gov to suggest that grandma could by sacrificed for the sake 401(k)'s everwhere, only to back track less than a week later.  Which is one of the reason we have this mish-mash of stay at home orders.

It just magnified his weaknesses.  Lack of attention to detail.  Lack of willingness to listen to experts.  Surrounding himself with "yes men" and "blonde women" who tell him what he wants to hear versus having his own beliefs challenged.

And most of all, his anti-Harry Truman belief that the buck always stops somewhere else.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It's crap like this that makes me think this is going to continue to roll along.

Lawmakers overturn religious worship size limits in Kansas
Lawmakers have overturned Gov. Laura Kelly's executive order restricting the size of religious gatherings amid the coronavirus outbreak after the state's top prosecutor said it likely violates the state constitution.

The Legislative Coordinating Council voted 5-2 Wednesday to topple the order that limited in-person religious services and funerals to 10 people.

The move came after Attorney General Derek Schmidt, a Republican, said that while the order was "sound public-health advice that Kansans should follow," he was discouraging law enforcement agencies and prosecutors statewide from attempting to enforce the requirements. With Easter approaching, Kelly, a Democrat, issued the order Tuesday because of three outbreaks that had been connected to religious gatherings.

https://www.kwch.com/content/news/Kansas-AG-says-religious-restrictions-not-enforceable-569479791.html

[GooooMarquette]

It's crap like this that makes me think this is going to continue to roll along.

Lawmakers overturn religious worship size limits in Kansas

Unfortunately, I fear you may be right.

Mardi Gras in New Orleans, Spring Break in Florida, now Easter services at various places in the Bible Belt. Ugh.

[jesmu84]

It's crap like this that makes me think this is going to continue to roll along.

Lawmakers overturn religious worship size limits in Kansas
Lawmakers have overturned Gov. Laura Kelly's executive order restricting the size of religious gatherings amid the coronavirus outbreak after the state's top prosecutor said it likely violates the state constitution.

The Legislative Coordinating Council voted 5-2 Wednesday to topple the order that limited in-person religious services and funerals to 10 people.

The move came after Attorney General Derek Schmidt, a Republican, said that while the order was "sound public-health advice that Kansans should follow," he was discouraging law enforcement agencies and prosecutors statewide from attempting to enforce the requirements. With Easter approaching, Kelly, a Democrat, issued the order Tuesday because of three outbreaks that had been connected to religious gatherings.

https://www.kwch.com/content/news/Kansas-AG-says-religious-restrictions-not-enforceable-569479791.html

It's crap like this that makes me believe politics, as opposed to citizens, are going to ruin the country

[Jockey]

It's crap like this that makes me believe politics, as opposed to citizens, are going to ruin the country

Guns 'n God, baby. Guns 'n God.

As I said in the other thread, they're only killing their own.

[Jockey]

Was going to say the same.

Impressive like you were a columnist once upon a time!

FWIW - David Frum supposedly has a blistering 13 page one just out today at The Atlantic going into detail on all of this.  I have not seen yet.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/americans-are-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/

Not behind a paywall.

[Johnny B]

Guns 'n God, baby. Guns 'n God.

As I said in the other thread, they're only killing their own.

I never understood the connection there. Is jesus a big gun lover?

[Johnny B]

Religion isnt supposed to get special treatment. If there arent restrictions on chruch gathering size then others can gather in large groups for other things to. Obviously none of it should be allowed. Does baffle me some peoples main concern with all this is they have some temporary restrictions on where they can go and with how many people.

[GB Warrior]

Well, Ners, you're not blaming Wojo, so I guess that's progress!

How should President Pandemic have handled things differently, you asked ...

How about not forcing states to bid against each other and the federal government for PPE and ventilators?

How about not denying aid and equipment to states whose governors he doesn't like?

How about not letting maintenance contracts on life-saving equipment lapse in 2018 and not dismantling the NSC's global health security office that same year?

How about not lying to the American public dozens (if not hundreds) of times about the severity of the problem? Those lies were backed up by endless lies from his embarrassingly cloying Fox News cohorts, insuring that millions upon millions of gullible people would totally dismiss the coming pandemic.

How about not letting his red-state buddies keep beaches and churches open to serve as COVID-19 incubators?

How about not pushing his experts aside at his press conferences and then contradicting what they said, giving Americans a false sense of security?

How about educating himself as to how pandemics spread and not pretending we'd be down to "close to zero" cases "within days"?

Having listened to his experts (which he didn't) and educating himself (which he didn't), how about stockpiling the equipment we would need to survive the pandemic without so much loss of life?

How about, instead of going to rallies and getting his easily conned followers into a lather over the Dem "hoax," he had been honest with them instead? Maybe doing so would have convinced the deniers that this thing was serious. Maybe had they been led properly by their emperor, they would have paid more attention to social-distancing rules and other strong recommendations.

Once it was here and infecting people, how about getting extremely proactive by ensuring adequate PPE supplies, convincing governors (especially those friendly to him) to shut down their states, etc.

How about putting competent people, preferably those not married to his daughter, in charge of the effort?

How about taking even a smidge of responsibility for any of this?

How about not patting himself on the back if "only" 100K die?

Etc, etc, etc ... as discussed many times earlier in this thread.

I made the joke about Wojo to start this post, Ners, but I do find it funny that you are ever willing to hold a basketball coach accountable for failings on his watch -- so willing that you'll go on and on and on until you get yourself banned multiple times. But you are not willing to hold the president of the United States accountable for failings on his watch.

So what you're saying is if Republicans and congress won't hold him accountable, maybe the NCAA will suspend him for lack of organizational control.

[Jay Bee]

Lefties, what do you think the best path is from today?

I feel we're just delaying things. I understand the things we probably need, but no promise as to when they'll come.

These past couple of weeks have told me (talking not just fed, but state & local levels) that the current approach is "fu(k, we need time to figure this out. Please stay home so it doesn't get crazy wild super fast".

I don't see answers/plans.. just buying time. Maybe a weather plan as well, which is scary from a longer term view.

Earth is done. #LastDays

But curious if the lefties on here have thoughts on what should be done at THIS point in time.  (Aside from "be nicer in press conferences, etc)

[jesmu84]

Lefties, what do you think the best path is from today?

I feel we're just delaying things. I understand the things we probably need, but no promise as to when they'll come.

These past couple of weeks have told me (talking not just fed, but state & local levels) that the current approach is "fu(k, we need time to figure this out. Please stay home so it doesn't get crazy wild super fast".

I don't see answers/plans.. just buying time. Maybe a weather plan as well, which is scary from a longer term view.

Earth is done. #LastDays

But curious if the lefties on here have thoughts on what should be done at THIS point in time.  (Aside from "be nicer in press conferences, etc)

People have told you multiple times. Including the article I linked

[Jay Bee]

People have told you multiple times. Including the article I linked

So, no current plan as of today. Great