COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[forgetful]

Study done at Sydney University.  Here is one of the researchers in his own words

https://twitter.com/SBSNews/status/1258298018710736896

Some additional links (appears there a many to choose from)

https://www.barrons.com/news/australia-fears-suicide-spike-due-to-virus-shutdown-01588819808

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8293233/Far-people-Australia-predicted-die-suicide-coronavirus-lockdown.html


If that doesn't grab your attention, 75,000 Americans could die of suicide because of COVID.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/health/coronavirus-deaths-of-despair/index.html

The researchers are saying more deaths in Australia because of suicide, because they are assuming essentially no CoVID deaths. They are estimating 1500 suicides total nationwide. If Australia didn't quarantine, and treat this as seriously as they did, they would already have had far more than 1500 CoVID deaths. Because of Australia's quarantine, tracking, and tracing programs they have only had 97 deaths from CoVID.

Regarding the 75,000 Americans. The study does not look at a comparison of how many would die from overdose or suicide if 100's of thousands of Americans are dying from a disease that is difficult to avoid. My guess is that individuals who are susceptible to overdose and suicide would be far more affected by large scale death and disease, and uncertainty around it, than economic affects. Looking at one in isolation of the other is poor practice.

The one thing that is true though, is regardless, we need to be investing more heavily in mental health care, because many are suffering mental health issues.

[tower912]

Historically, math isn't partisan.  But we do live in a world of alternative facts.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

President Obama said it well yesterday.  "It would have been bad even in the best of governments".  Agree with him completely.  When I see people say blood on someone's hands, or all 75K deaths result of one person, or bigger than Vietnam.  This is nothing but blatant partisanship. 

Could things have been better?  No double in my mind.  Would a different administration have done things differently in an election year?  Highly doubtful.

Industrial strength intellectual dishonesty. So, so chicos.

"Obama continued to tear into the Trump administration's handling of the coronavirus crisis, partly blaming the White House's "what's in it for me" mindset.

"It's part of the reason why the response to this global crisis has been so anemic and spotty," Obama said. "It would have been bad even with the best of governments. It has been an absolute chaotic disaster when that mindset of 'what's in it for me' and 'to heck with everybody else' ... is operationalized in our government."

[Pakuni]

If that doesn't grab your attention, 75,000 Americans could die of suicide because of COVID.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/health/coronavirus-deaths-of-despair/index.html

What WarriorCheeks won't tell you is that the authors of the study in no way are opposed to stay-at-home orders or advocate for reopening things quicker as a means to avoid such tragic consequences. Instead, they argue that the government needs to do more to provide mental health services, drug counseling and other care to those impacted by the downturn.
You know, exactly the kind of thing small government types don't want.

From the report:

This report is not a call to suddenly reopen the country. Some might use this report to argue that this is why our economy needs to open up fast. But that's NOT what we are saying.  We need to abide by good science, and make sure that testing and contact tracing is occurring at adequate levels to assure that it is safe to open up. Even as of today parts of the country are opening, data suggest that this is premature due to a lack of consistent testing, which allows local public health authorities to trace, treat, and isolate to prevent further spread. A range of efforts at containing the COVID-19 pandemic must be rigorously applied to minimize deaths from infection.

[tower912]

He forgot to read his link again.    Tsk, tsk, tsk.

[GooooMarquette]

From the report:

This report is not a call to suddenly reopen the country. Some might use this report to argue that this is why our economy needs to open up fast. But that's NOT what we are saying.  We need to abide by good science, and make sure that testing and contact tracing is occurring at adequate levels to assure that it is safe to open up. Even as of today parts of the country are opening, data suggest that this is premature due to a lack of consistent testing, which allows local public health authorities to trace, treat, and isolate to prevent further spread. A range of efforts at containing the COVID-19 pandemic must be rigorously applied to minimize deaths from infection.

I agree with the conclusions from the report cheeks posted. We need comprehensive testing and contact tracing before we reopen the country; and we need dramatically enhanced mental health services to mitigate mental health issues that might result from this crisis.

#keepsciencing

[Pakuni]

I agree with the conclusions from the report cheeks posted. We need comprehensive testing and contact tracing before we reopen the country; and we need dramatically enhanced mental health services to mitigate mental health issues that might result from this crisis.

#keepsciencing

The report's not necessarily unreasonable, though it is pretty vague and I couldn't find some of their definitions ... like, is a pedestrian hit by a drunk driver a COVID death? I don't know, because they don't appear to define that.
The irony is that the authors emphasize that the report shouldn't be used in exactly the way WarriorCheeks is trying to use it.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I never seen anyone who so frequently posts links that make the opposite point that they think they make. I mean, ALL.THE.TIME.

[GooooMarquette]

The report's not necessarily unreasonable, though it is pretty vague and I couldn't find some of their definitions ... like, is a pedestrian hit by a drunk driver a COVID death? I don't know, because they don't appear to define that.
The irony is that the authors emphasize that the report shouldn't be used in exactly the way WarriorCheeks is trying to use it.

The other factor that cheeks and the report don't address are the possible suicides resulting from reopening the economy too soon...which could result both in worker stress (having to work when they still don't feel safe), and possibly having a bigger second wave than if we open more deliberately.

Either way, the bottom line recommendation from the report is absolutely critical: we need dramatically enhanced mental health services available to all.

[WarriorDad]

The researchers are saying more deaths in Australia because of suicide, because they are assuming essentially no CoVID deaths. They are estimating 1500 suicides total nationwide. If Australia didn't quarantine, and treat this as seriously as they did, they would already have had far more than 1500 CoVID deaths. Because of Australia's quarantine, tracking, and tracing programs they have only had 97 deaths from CoVID.

Regarding the 75,000 Americans. The study does not look at a comparison of how many would die from overdose or suicide if 100's of thousands of Americans are dying from a disease that is difficult to avoid. My guess is that individuals who are susceptible to overdose and suicide would be far more affected by large scale death and disease, and uncertainty around it, than economic affects. Looking at one in isolation of the other is poor practice.

The one thing that is true though, is regardless, we need to be investing more heavily in mental health care, because many are suffering mental health issues.

Both studies are saying there are incremental suicides as a result of the economic despair caused by this virus and the actions taken.  I am not passing judgment on what the correct policy action is as only time will tell.  Do you disagree with their assertions that more people are in mental distress because of job losses, their business no longer functioning, anxiety about the future?

[WarriorDad]

Industrial strength intellectual dishonesty. So, so chicos.

"Obama continued to tear into the Trump administration's handling of the coronavirus crisis, partly blaming the White House's "what's in it for me" mindset.

"It's part of the reason why the response to this global crisis has been so anemic and spotty," Obama said. "It would have been bad even with the best of governments. It has been an absolute chaotic disaster when that mindset of 'what's in it for me' and 'to heck with everybody else' ... is operationalized in our government."

The part you quoted was his opinion, which I agree with, but it is only an opinion.  He's in a position where he didn't have to do anything so he can say what he wants and no one can prove it differently.  I do not believe any other administration in an election year would do things much differently.  Political suicide.

Based on news in the last 72 hours, President Obama may be looking to say a number of things right now because of the transcripts released on Friday from the Russia investigation. There is some head scratching testimony from his administration that don't align with the claims of never having a scandal.  I suspect we will be hearing much more in the coming weeks.

[wadesworld]

The part you quoted was his opinion, which I agree with, but it is only an opinion.  He's in a position where he didn't have to do anything so he can say what he wants and no one can prove it differently.  I do not believe any other administration in an election year would do things much differently.  Political suicide.

Based on news in the last 72 hours, President Obama may be looking to say a number of things right now because of the transcripts released on Friday from the Russia investigation. There is some head scratching testimony from his administration that don't align with the claims of never having a scandal.  I suspect we will be hearing much more in the coming weeks.

Wooo boy. A shoe may drop on a man you voted for. Twice!

[forgetful]

Both studies are saying there are incremental suicides as a result of the economic despair caused by this virus and the actions taken.  I am not passing judgment on what the correct policy action is as only time will tell.  Do you disagree with their assertions that more people are in mental distress because of job losses, their business no longer functioning, anxiety about the future?

You are creating a false question, deliberately so, in my opinion. You act as if the only stress is due to job losses and economic uncertainty.

The stress of 10's-100's of thousands of people dying from a disease, and many others dealing with lung/heart scarring, is immense. Especially when there is a constant, uncertain fear, that you and your loved ones may be next, with no ability to protect yourself.

If one quarantines, you get more economic stress. If one does not, you get more health stress as more get sick, and die. A proper analysis, which your link is not, looks at all the compounding issues.

The reason your link regarding 75k deaths doesn't go into those issues, is they are not advocating for any policy, beyond the fact that we need better mental health care during the coronavirus pandemic. Everyone here agrees that we need better mental health care.

[GooooMarquette]

I agree, forgetful.

We could very well see a dramatic increase in suicides regardless of policy decisions made going forward. Either we keep the economy closed, and people get additional stress from being out of work, or we open too soon and people get additional stress from having to go back to work when they still don't feel safe from a life-threatening disease.

Bottom line: we will face additional stress and possible suicides simply because COVID is here. All the more reason for enhanced access to mental health services, regardless of what governors do next.

[tower912]

That is very kind of you, WD, pointing out the weaknesses in the mental health system and advocating for more and better treatment.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

That is very kind of you, WD, pointing out the weaknesses in the mental health system and advocating for more and better treatment.

I heard he used to hold a different position.  However, after a fierce debate at a backyard beer summit, he was swayed to an advocacy position 'for' mental health. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Mammoth intellectual dishonesty. What would one expect from you, eh hoopaloop?

[GooooMarquette]

Somewhere in one of these threads a person asked if POTUS was justified in not using a mask because he had tested negative. The presumption was that he would have access to the best possible testing kits.

I replied that this would only be justified if the rate of false negatives was 0%.

Anyhow, I just stumbled across a New York Times article indicating that the White House is using a test called ID Now, presumably because it provides very quick results (approximately 15 minutes). Unfortunately, this test also has a relatively high rate of false negatives, with Cleveland Clinic reporting a rate of almost 15% in a recent study. Steps are being taken to reduce this rate, but it is clearly well above 0%.

Based on this high rate of false negatives, POTUS could easily test negative and still be spreading the virus. FWIW.

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1259621162163855361?s=19

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/cmyeaton/status/1258511596713738240?s=19

[Hards Alumni]

That is very kind of you, WD, pointing out the weaknesses in the mental health system and advocating for more and better treatment.

Interestingly, an increase in spending on mental health would benefit a guy like him quite a bit.

[tower912]

I think it is a roundabout way to (A) cry for help and (B) express concern about the well-being of other scoopers.   There are resources available WD.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Interestingly, an increase in spending on mental health would benefit a guy like him quite a bit.

Unnecessary.

[Hards Alumni]

Unnecessary.

You're right, he really should seek help.

[rocket surgeon]

Interestingly, an increase in spending on mental health would benefit a guy like him quite a bit.

out of bounds-making light of mh not cool.  thought we moved on from this stuff...