I didn't get to watch the game...

[Cheeks]

Because 12-6 < 9-9 and a 5 seed last year = missing the tournament

I have to admit, the effort is amazing.  What time is it where you are?  Are you planning on keeping pace?

[79Warrior]

That's a convenient starting point.

It made me laugh that Buzz was fired comment...the transition of power said the new sheriff had to own a set of ethical standards in addition to winning games.  Maybe the booing will land him an extension.  Some of the boomers still pissed the b-ball coach doesn't drink with them after games at the local bars...they can boo all they want.

Your out of your league dude. You post some wicked bullsh#t.

[Cheeks]

Your out of your league dude. You post some wicked bullsh#t.

Please show me how I am out of my league...you think Buzz was fired from MU?  LOL. No he wasn't.  You think Wojo was allowed the same lax options of his predecessor?  LOL.  Nope.  Where am I out of my league on this?

[The Lens]

That's a convenient starting point.

It made me laugh that Buzz was fired comment...the transition of power said the new sheriff had to own a set of ethical standards in addition to winning games.  Maybe the booing will land him an extension.  Some of the boomers still pissed the b-ball coach doesn't drink with them after games at the local bars...they can boo all they want.

The coach hasn't drank with them in 20 years.  We're over that.  We adjusted just fine to Sweet Tea & Sweet 16s. 

[WhoaJoe2020]

I have to admit, the effort is amazing.  What time is it where you are?  Are you planning on keeping pace?

I posted in one of the topics I started that I was required to write thousands of detailed reports in my position at work so snapping off a short, by my standards, reply is really nothing to me.
I'm also motivated AF by the "fans" who trash Wojo and the players. This season and recruiting class are critical to the future of the program IMHO and that has me fired up. Securing a tournament bid and locking up Mane would go a long way in increasing my chill factor.

People that advise me not to engage don't know me very well.

[MUBBau]

What about the booing last night once Wojo was announced?  I'm 44, have been a STH since the KO era.  I cannot remember anything like what I heard. 

That had to be a shock to Lovell and Scholl.  I missed the Nova game.  Was it similar?  Frankly I found it a little jarring.  Glad the team won in the fashion they did.  I'm not a ProJo but I don't want to have the end of this season turning into a Philly sporting event.

I was saying Woooooooooooojo

[mu03eng]

The modern era of MU hoops was started when we hired KO.  We reset expectations then.  For instance, coaches could claim 100 wins in 5 years and still be fired.  We held those same expectations as we fired Buzz for missing the tourney and going 9-9 in conference.  Somehow in the transition of power at Gesu, Wild forgot to instruct Lovell on the same expectations.  Maybe the booing will instruct him.

Buzz was fired?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Buzz was fired?

Mike Deane was a success?

[mu03eng]

Mike Deane was a success?

Who? He coached the competitive piano team right?

[hairy worthen]

Who? He coached the competitive piano team right?

That was Dukiet, No?

[hairy worthen]

I posted in one of the topics I started that I was required to write thousands of detailed reports in my position at work so snapping off a short, by my standards, reply is really nothing to me.
I'm also motivated AF by the "fans" who trash Wojo and the players. This season and recruiting class are critical to the future of the program IMHO and that has me fired up. Securing a tournament bid and locking up Mane would go a long way in increasing my chill factor.

People that advise me not to engage don't know me very well.

IMHO?  nothing humble about you.

[Galway Eagle]

The modern era of MU hoops was started when we hired KO.  We reset expectations then.  For instance, coaches could claim 100 wins in 5 years and still be fired.  We held those same expectations as we fired Buzz for missing the tourney and going 9-9 in conference.  Somehow in the transition of power at Gesu, Wild forgot to instruct Lovell on the same expectations.  Maybe the booing will instruct him.

Huh?

Deane was fired for crappy recruiting, and trending way down. I'd rather Wojo's 97 wins in 5yrs in a major conference than Deanes 100 in a crap conference.

Also Buzz was not fired. Are you using your own "alternative facts"?

[WhiteTrash]

It's not a matter of faith, it's a matter of who is going to MU.  Head coaches aren't and has been proven time and time again.  On the rare occasion we do, we get Deane and Dukiet...guys not used to recruiting high level players.  Therefore it is a roll of the dice with assistants.  That's tough to get right consistent,y, I don't care who is in the administration.  And on the chance we get a good one,..they don't stay around that long.

I'm PRO MU, too.  I'm also pragmatic and a study of history.  Until MU bucks our own trend, that's what I'm going by.   Has Scholl ever hired a major sport coach as an AD?  Will they go to an outside agency...many of which have been less than stellar with their recommendations.  I worked there when we let Deane go and hired Crean.  You make a bad hire and you are one additional hire away from going on a 8 to 10 year run of crap....it can happen and a school like MU will take longer to get out of it than a big state school.

Thanks for your negative opinions about MU.

I'll agree to disagree with you.

[Cheeks]

I posted in one of the topics I started that I was required to write thousands of detailed reports in my position at work so snapping off a short, by my standards, reply is really nothing to me.
I'm also motivated AF by the "fans" who trash Wojo and the players. This season and recruiting class are critical to the future of the program IMHO and that has me fired up. Securing a tournament bid and locking up Mane would go a long way in increasing my chill factor.

People that advise me not to engage don't know me very well.

All good...and I probably agree with 75% of your stuff....I'm just enjoying the head explosions of false accusations by others here.  Please, carry on.

[Cheeks]

Thanks for your negative opinions about MU.

I'll agree to disagree with you.

Question for you, can you name a high profile successful head coach that MU lured to our school in the last 50 years that did well and wasn't fired?

One more, can you name an assistant head coach we hired that stuck around for the long haul ....say10 years and didn't jump ship over the last 50 years?

[mu03eng]

Question for you, can you name a high profile successful head coach that MU lured to our school in the last 50 years that did well and wasn't fired?

One more, can you name an assistant head coach we hired that stuck around for the long haul ....say10 years and didn't jump ship over the last 50 years?

This to me gets at the heart of some of the angst in the fan base around Wojo and/or coaches generally. There is a lot of varying opinion as to what MU is as a coaching "destination" and I think a lot of it depends on what era of MU basketball one started to be a fan.

-Is it realistic that MU could hire a "full formed coach" from a power conference? (ie are we a step up from any non-blue bloods)
-Which is better, a head coach from a low level program or an assistant from a high level program?
-If we dip back into the HC hiring process, how do we know we'll do better than Wojo and/or the new HC would develop faster than Wojo is?

Back to the era piece, if one became a fan in the Buzz era, I can see how you would have a different perspective than if you came of age in the KO era or the Al era or even the Crean era. Same with any of the coaching era's, I think some of your fandom and expectations are formed based on the era that you started as a fan.

[Cheeks]

This to me gets at the heart of some of the angst in the fan base around Wojo and/or coaches generally. There is a lot of varying opinion as to what MU is as a coaching "destination" and I think a lot of it depends on what era of MU basketball one started to be a fan.

-Is it realistic that MU could hire a "full formed coach" from a power conference? (ie are we a step up from any non-blue bloods)
-Which is better, a head coach from a low level program or an assistant from a high level program?
-If we dip back into the HC hiring process, how do we know we'll do better than Wojo and/or the new HC would develop faster than Wojo is?

Back to the era piece, if one became a fan in the Buzz era, I can see how you would have a different perspective than if you came of age in the KO era or the Al era or even the Crean era. Same with any of the coaching era's, I think some of your fandom and expectations are formed based on the era that you started as a fan.

Very reasoned response

[MU82]

This to me gets at the heart of some of the angst in the fan base around Wojo and/or coaches generally. There is a lot of varying opinion as to what MU is as a coaching "destination" and I think a lot of it depends on what era of MU basketball one started to be a fan.

-Is it realistic that MU could hire a "full formed coach" from a power conference? (ie are we a step up from any non-blue bloods)
-Which is better, a head coach from a low level program or an assistant from a high level program?
-If we dip back into the HC hiring process, how do we know we'll do better than Wojo and/or the new HC would develop faster than Wojo is?

Back to the era piece, if one became a fan in the Buzz era, I can see how you would have a different perspective than if you came of age in the KO era or the Al era or even the Crean era. Same with any of the coaching era's, I think some of your fandom and expectations are formed based on the era that you started as a fan.

I became a fan from afar (way afar - Connecticut) during Al's last season and decided to go to MU about 2 weeks before Whitehead's elbow wrecked Hank's first NCAA tourney appearance. Started school the following fall, meaning I was there for the original Sam's two years and then Rivers' arrival.

So during my time as a fan, Marquette hired an assistant from within (who ended up having decent but disappointing results), another assistant from within (who didn't work out but went on to become a great coach elsewhere), a small-major coach (unmitigated disaster), Arizona's top assistant coach (who helped turn around the program but couldn't stand staying still), another small-major coach (who couldn't recruit and went out a loser), Michigan State's top assistant coach (who took us to the Final Four and mostly was good for the program but ultimately thought the grass was greener elsewhere), an assistant from within (who came closest to replicating Al's success but left in a huff due to philosophical differences with MU), and Duke's top assistant coach (grade: Incomplete).

I look at this from a pragmatic POV: As soon as Marquette shows it can and will hire an active, proven, P6 head coach who has had NCAA tournament success, I will actually believe Marquette can lure such a guy to our job.

I wish we could get that guy. Once Wojo's time is up, I hope we can. But I've been a Marquette fan for 40+ years and it hasn't happened yet.

[connie]

I became a fan from afar (way afar - Connecticut) during Al's last season and decided to go to MU about 2 weeks before Whitehead's elbow wrecked Hank's first NCAA tourney appearance. Started school the following fall, meaning I was there for the original Sam's two years and then Rivers' arrival.

So during my time as a fan, Marquette hired an assistant from within (who ended up having decent but disappointing results), another assistant from within (who didn't work out but went on to become a great coach elsewhere), a small-major coach (unmitigated disaster), Arizona's top assistant coach (who helped turn around the program but couldn't stand staying still), another small-major coach (who couldn't recruit and went out a loser), Michigan State's top assistant coach (who took us to the Final Four and mostly was good for the program but ultimately thought the grass was greener elsewhere), an assistant from within (who came closest to replicating Al's success but left in a huff due to philosophical differences with MU), and Duke's top assistant coach (grade: Incomplete).

I look at this from a pragmatic POV: As soon as Marquette shows it can and will hire an active, proven, P6 head coach who has had NCAA tournament success, I will actually believe Marquette can lure such a guy to our job.

I wish we could get that guy. Once Wojo's time is up, I hope we can. But I've been a Marquette fan for 40+ years and it hasn't happened yet.

Great perspective to keep in mind.

[skianth16]

I look at this from a pragmatic POV: As soon as Marquette shows it can and will hire an active, proven, P6 head coach who has had NCAA tournament success, I will actually believe Marquette can lure such a guy to our job.

I wish we could get that guy. Once Wojo's time is up, I hope we can. But I've been a Marquette fan for 40+ years and it hasn't happened yet.

Over the last 40-50 years, or however far back you want to go, how much consistency has their been in school and athletic department leadership, though? I've got to think that most ADs only hire one or two basketball coaches in their tenure. Most school presidents are probably in the same camp, maybe add one more hire to their list. So while the school may have a track record of doing things a certain way, who's to say that current leadership and powers-that-be would agree with the way things have been done in the past?

I don't see any reason why MU can't attract a successful head coach. The things I assume most coaches are looking for - resources, prestige/reputation, facilities, alumni support, etc. - is offered by Marquette. We're not Duke or Kansas, but I don't see any discernible difference between MU and schools like Villanova, Gonzaga, or Creighton. I'd say the MU job seems like it could be just as attractive as a Texas Tech or Virginia even. Outside of the blue bloods, what would set other schools apart from Marquette when it comes to attracting a basketball coach?

Why couldn't we go out and make a pitch for a guy like Gregg Marshall or Randy Bennett who have proven themselves as head coaches and built strong programs in smaller conferences? I would even think we could attract P6 coaches who might be looking for a change. Maybe guys like Rick Barnes, Matt Painter, Chris Beard, Mark Turgeon would prefer to be at a basketball-first school. I've got to think MU could make a pretty convincing sales pitch to almost any coach in the country. I see no need to always look for the diamond in the rough assistant.

[MU82]

Over the last 40-50 years, or however far back you want to go, how much consistency has their been in school and athletic department leadership, though? I've got to think that most ADs only hire one or two basketball coaches in their tenure. Most school presidents are probably in the same camp, maybe add one more hire to their list. So while the school may have a track record of doing things a certain way, who's to say that current leadership and powers-that-be would agree with the way things have been done in the past?

I don't see any reason why MU can't attract a successful head coach. The things I assume most coaches are looking for - resources, prestige/reputation, facilities, alumni support, etc. - is offered by Marquette. We're not Duke or Kansas, but I don't see any discernible difference between MU and schools like Villanova, Gonzaga, or Creighton. I'd say the MU job seems like it could be just as attractive as a Texas Tech or Virginia even. Outside of the blue bloods, what would set other schools apart from Marquette when it comes to attracting a basketball coach?

Why couldn't we go out and make a pitch for a guy like Gregg Marshall or Randy Bennett who have proven themselves as head coaches and built strong programs in smaller conferences? I would even think we could attract P6 coaches who might be looking for a change. Maybe guys like Rick Barnes, Matt Painter, Chris Beard, Mark Turgeon would prefer to be at a basketball-first school. I've got to think MU could make a pretty convincing sales pitch to almost any coach in the country. I see no need to always look for the diamond in the rough assistant.

I like to think you are right. Only time will tell until we see if you are. History suggests that is wishful thinking, but sometimes history does get changed. We'll see!

[Lennys Tap]

This to me gets at the heart of some of the angst in the fan base around Wojo and/or coaches generally. There is a lot of varying opinion as to what MU is as a coaching "destination" and I think a lot of it depends on what era of MU basketball one started to be a fan.

-Is it realistic that MU could hire a "full formed coach" from a power conference? (ie are we a step up from any non-blue bloods)
-Which is better, a head coach from a low level program or an assistant from a high level program?
-If we dip back into the HC hiring process, how do we know we'll do better than Wojo and/or the new HC would develop faster than Wojo is?

Back to the era piece, if one became a fan in the Buzz era, I can see how you would have a different perspective than if you came of age in the KO era or the Al era or even the Crean era. Same with any of the coaching era's, I think some of your fandom and expectations are formed based on the era that you started as a fan.

Regardless of era, MU has been pretty consistent in where they look for a new head coach. We've hired 8 coaches post Al - zero from a power conference, 2 from low mid majors and 6 assistants. Of our low major head coaches, 1 was fair and 1 was a disaster. The most successful was the one assistant who had a year of HC experience (Buzz). The next best were assistants hired from major programs (KO and Crean). Hank was an assistant who should have stayed an assistant and Rick was an assistant who would have been great but who wasn't ready. With Wojo the jury is still out but even the most hopeful must admit he didn't arrive as ready as Buzz, KO or Crean in spite of a longer run as an assistant (under a Hall of Fame one at that).

So the evidence post Al says go with top notch assistants. That said, Al was a small college head coach who MU "rescued" from Belmont Abbey. So maybe the key is finding an "it" guy. Al had "it" in spades. Buzz was the closest thing MU has seen since but was too quirky for some. KO and Rick had "it" too but were too self destructive (KO) or too inexperienced (Rick). The only guy without a big personality who has been successful at MU was TC. Wojo Is as white bread as they come, which (IMO) will make it tougher for him.

[Pakuni]

Over the last 40-50 years, or however far back you want to go, how much consistency has their been in school and athletic department leadership, though? I've got to think that most ADs only hire one or two basketball coaches in their tenure. Most school presidents are probably in the same camp, maybe add one more hire to their list. So while the school may have a track record of doing things a certain way, who's to say that current leadership and powers-that-be would agree with the way things have been done in the past?

I don't see any reason why MU can't attract a successful head coach. The things I assume most coaches are looking for - resources, prestige/reputation, facilities, alumni support, etc. - is offered by Marquette. We're not Duke or Kansas, but I don't see any discernible difference between MU and schools like Villanova, Gonzaga, or Creighton. I'd say the MU job seems like it could be just as attractive as a Texas Tech or Virginia even. Outside of the blue bloods, what would set other schools apart from Marquette when it comes to attracting a basketball coach?

Why couldn't we go out and make a pitch for a guy like Gregg Marshall or Randy Bennett who have proven themselves as head coaches and built strong programs in smaller conferences? I would even think we could attract P6 coaches who might be looking for a change. Maybe guys like Rick Barnes, Matt Painter, Chris Beard, Mark Turgeon would prefer to be at a basketball-first school. I've got to think MU could make a pretty convincing sales pitch to almost any coach in the country. I see no need to always look for the diamond in the rough assistant.

MU went after guys like this in 2008 and again in 2014 and couldn't land them. Nobody's saying they couldn't try again, but history shows that where Marquette is on the college basketball landscape and where you think Marquette is on the college basketball landscape are not the same.

[skianth16]

MU went after guys like this in 2008 and again in 2014 and couldn't land them. Nobody's saying they couldn't try again, but history shows that where Marquette is on the college basketball landscape and where you think Marquette is on the college basketball landscape are not the same.

Sounds like we just need a better powerpoint.

[WhiteTrash]

Question for you, can you name a high profile successful head coach that MU lured to our school in the last 50 years that did well and wasn't fired?

One more, can you name an assistant head coach we hired that stuck around for the long haul ....say10 years and didn't jump ship over the last 50 years?

You're completely missing my point.

MU should not and will not stick with an underperforming coach because they are too afraid to hire a new coach. This was proven with Deane.

I happen to trust MU to hire a qualified coach because they have a professional team in place to do so, and a hell of a lot to offer.

You, and some other, don't trust MU. I presume you have your own reason to believe they are incompetent to run a major college program.

There is no guaranty the new hire would work out. Every college and pro sports team has made poor hires, but the good organizations recognize the error and correct it.

That is my point. I don't expect this to change your opinion of MU, so we'll agree to disagree.