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Marquette
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Date/Time: Oct 16, 2020?
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Author Topic: I didn't get to watch the game...  (Read 9646 times)

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2020, 07:59:42 AM »
Defense was very good, but I was mostly encouraged how we attacked the basket on offense.  Got the ball inside instead of just launching.
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JakeBarnes

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2020, 08:01:24 AM »
Defense was very good, but I was mostly encouraged how we attacked the basket on offense.  Got the ball inside instead of just launching.

Agreed.  A lot more of a focus on getting in the paint. That work early on opened the floor to the shooters.
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cheese ball chaser

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2020, 09:56:26 AM »
but all I need to know about the results is indicated by traffic on this board.     Mmmmm, sweet silence.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact the game wasn't televised for a lot of us? Might be a better explanation than the idea that everyone disappears from Scoop when MU wins *shrug*

mu03eng

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2020, 09:59:10 AM »
The biggest example of the change in focus/intensity for me was when Brendan attacked baseline for a dunk instead of settling for a corner 3 like he has in the past. An aggressive Bailey on the offensive end(ie attacking instead of always taking jumpers) would be a very key development for this team. BB can get to the hoop against other teams as well as shoot but he tends to hesitate on the drive for some reason. A slashing 4 could be a perfect salve on this teams occasional offensive woes.
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MU82

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2020, 10:04:48 AM »
The biggest example of the change in focus/intensity for me was when Brendan attacked baseline for a dunk instead of settling for a corner 3 like he has in the past. An aggressive Bailey on the offensive end(ie attacking instead of always taking jumpers) would be a very key development for this team. BB can get to the hoop against other teams as well as shoot but he tends to hesitate on the drive for some reason. A slashing 4 could be a perfect salve on this teams occasional offensive woes.

Yep ... I LOVED that dunk! There was a game earlier in the season in which Bailey paused, thought about it, begrudgingly drove the baseline, and missed the uncontested layup. I couldn't help but shout, "Dunk it!" at the TV. Thrilled to see how much more comfortable, involved and aggressive BB has become the last month or so.
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skianth16

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2020, 10:18:29 AM »
Yep ... I LOVED that dunk! There was a game earlier in the season in which Bailey paused, thought about it, begrudgingly drove the baseline, and missed the uncontested layup. I couldn't help but shout, "Dunk it!" at the TV. Thrilled to see how much more comfortable, involved and aggressive BB has become the last month or so.

That play last night was the same as the one against Wisconsin when he tried to lay it in and had a very different outcome. I would love to see that side of Brendan a little more. I'm happy he was able to finish the game the way he did, because he was pretty quiet offensively until the last 5-6 minutes. Let's hope that big dunk last night (SC top 10 worthy, IMO) can help give him the confidence to go make big plays a little more often.

 

MU82

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2020, 10:24:27 AM »
On the FS postgame show, they lavished praise on the lead guards for MU and SH.

They included a graphic with stats while they were doing the gushing:

Markus 35 pts vs X on 12-27 shooting; Powell 29 pts vs Butler on 9-23 shooting.
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mu03eng

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2020, 10:37:51 AM »
On the FS postgame show, they lavished praise on the lead guards for MU and SH.

They included a graphic with stats while they were doing the gushing:

Markus 35 pts vs X on 12-27 shooting; Powell 29 pts vs Butler on 9-23 shooting.

The way Markus played last night is a great example of both Markus and Wojo making adjustments that the fanbase seemingly doesn't credit or notice. I've been as hard as anyone on Wojo from an in-game coaching perspective this season (I went on a 10 minute rant about the last 5 and half minutes of the Providence game in the podcast) but the X game was good Wojo. X was running everything off the 3 point line, especially Markus and trying to defend him with length. So while Markus certainly tried to jack a couple of shots to keep them honest, he did most of his damage by going inside and outquicking the guards. That wasn't an accident that was Markus and staff taking what the other team gave them.
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Mr. Nielsen

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2020, 10:57:50 AM »
On the FS postgame show, they lavished praise on the lead guards for MU and SH.

They included a graphic with stats while they were doing the gushing:

Markus 35 pts vs X on 12-27 shooting; Powell 29 pts vs Butler on 9-23 shooting.

I enjoy the FS1 postgame shows they do for all sports. Thing I hated about ESPN, you go to Sportscenter and it's nothing to start in what you were just watching.
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GoldenDieners32

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2020, 11:01:00 AM »
Very impressed with SyBoogie, kid is gonna be very good
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connie

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2020, 11:08:36 AM »
The way Markus played last night is a great example of both Markus and Wojo making adjustments that the fanbase seemingly doesn't credit or notice. I've been as hard as anyone on Wojo from an in-game coaching perspective this season (I went on a 10 minute rant about the last 5 and half minutes of the Providence game in the podcast) but the X game was good Wojo. X was running everything off the 3 point line, especially Markus and trying to defend him with length. So while Markus certainly tried to jack a couple of shots to keep them honest, he did most of his damage by going inside and outquicking the guards. That wasn't an accident that was Markus and staff taking what the other team gave them.
The inconsistency is really frustrating.  I understand not all plans are going to work, but it seems like we get too much all or nothing.  (Possibly just a fan perspective). 

tower912

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2020, 11:10:06 AM »
Watched the game now.   A lot of fun.   
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mu03eng

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2020, 11:12:29 AM »
The inconsistency is really frustrating.  I understand not all plans are going to work, but it seems like we get too much all or nothing.  (Possibly just a fan perspective).

It really depends, some Big East teams like Creighton or even Providence have length and athleticism some have one or the other in a player but not both like Georgetown, X, and MU. Markus is going to really struggle against long players that he can't out pace on the drive which forces even larger adjustments than we saw last night. Providence and Creighton are able to guard Markus 35 feet out all the way to the rim with their guards which limits him. That forces players like Bailey and Sacar to step up, some times they do, some times they don't.
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TheyWereCones

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2020, 11:23:01 AM »
The biggest example of the change in focus/intensity for me was when Brendan attacked baseline for a dunk instead of settling for a corner 3 like he has in the past. An aggressive Bailey on the offensive end(ie attacking instead of always taking jumpers) would be a very key development for this team. BB can get to the hoop against other teams as well as shoot but he tends to hesitate on the drive for some reason. A slashing 4 could be a perfect salve on this teams occasional offensive woes.

Early in the game, he also had a very impressive drive from the wing to the middle, came to a jump stop and quickly put up and nailed a short floater.  Very encouraging and would add another dimension to his game.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2020, 11:28:40 AM »
The inconsistency is really frustrating.  I understand not all plans are going to work, but it seems like we get too much all or nothing.  (Possibly just a fan perspective).

With Wojo, I have come to the realization is that he isn’t going to make many adjustments within a game. He is a systems coach and his answer is perform better within the system. Buzz, Crean, Deane had base systems, but they would throw stuff out during the game.

That’s okay. Bo, K, Boheim and Knight are/were systems coaches. When Bo got down, his teams hardly ever got back into games. Others like Jay Wright will go all match-ups and will be working it from media time out to media time out. I think this is what bothers fans in the cuddles. Look at MU’s blow outs pro and con. When the system works, Wojo’s offenses have been some of the best in MU’s history...when not like at CU or SH, it is ugly trying to get back in it.

I mention this as whether you are a critical poster, the Hausers or the press, Wojo will generally make most of his adjustments in practices and not in a cuddle. It took Wojo all summer to rescheme his defense for example.  To be consistent, he needs roster continuity like Bo, and that’s been a problem. That said, Coach K has learned recently, he needs to adapt more to the modern game...as has Gard.

mu03eng

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2020, 11:38:43 AM »
With Wojo, I have come to the realization is that he isn’t going to make many adjustments within a game. He is a systems coach and his answer is perform better within the system. Buzz, Crean, Deane had base systems, but they would throw stuff out during the game.

That’s okay. Bo, K, Boheim and Knight are/were systems coaches. When Bo got down, his teams hardly ever got back into games. Others like Jay Wright will go all match-ups and will be working it from media time out to media time out. I think this is what bothers fans in the cuddles. Look at MU’s blow outs pro and con. When the system works, Wojo’s offenses have been some of the best in MU’s history...when not like at CU or SH, it is ugly trying to get back in it.

I mention this as whether you are a critical poster, the Hausers or the press, Wojo will generally make most of his adjustments in practices and not in a cuddle. It took Wojo all summer to rescheme his defense for example.  To be consistent, he needs roster continuity like Bo, and that’s been a problem. That said, Coach K has learned recently, he needs to adapt more to the modern game...as has Gard.

I don't totally agree with this. Wojo absolutely adjusts to match-ups and adapts schemes in game. Best example is the adjustment he made in the last two minutes of the Providence game to feature Sacar as primary ball handler and decoy with Howard. That's not standard scheme for them. Yes, he generally prefers his standard scheme but he's not above changing it. Another example, they've been featuring a lot more of Howard setting screens and having him pop off of them(especially back screens).

I agree with the defensive example you site, by and large that lack of change (IMHO) was driven not by a system stubbornness but that his personnel were best in that scheme as opposed to changing it. I disagreed with his opinion on the defensive scheme but that's one of many reasons why I'm not a head coach.
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MU82

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2020, 11:49:38 AM »
Good conversation, Doc and mu03. Thanks.
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tower912

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2020, 11:56:36 AM »
With Wojo, I have come to the realization is that he isn’t going to make many adjustments within a game. He is a systems coach and his answer is perform better within the system. Buzz, Crean, Deane had base systems, but they would throw stuff out during the game.

That’s okay. Bo, K, Boheim and Knight are/were systems coaches. When Bo got down, his teams hardly ever got back into games. Others like Jay Wright will go all match-ups and will be working it from media time out to media time out. I think this is what bothers fans in the cuddles. Look at MU’s blow outs pro and con. When the system works, Wojo’s offenses have been some of the best in MU’s history...when not like at CU or SH, it is ugly trying to get back in it.

I mention this as whether you are a critical poster, the Hausers or the press, Wojo will generally make most of his adjustments in practices and not in a cuddle. It took Wojo all summer to rescheme his defense for example.  To be consistent, he needs roster continuity like Bo, and that’s been a problem. That said, Coach K has learned recently, he needs to adapt more to the modern game...as has Gard.
I take issue with one thing.   Crean was more incapable than Wojo of making in game adjustments.    Also, Crean has now shown that for nearly 20 years.    Wojo may still grow out of it.   
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mu03eng

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2020, 11:58:19 AM »
I take issue with one thing.   Crean was more incapable than Wojo of making in game adjustments.    Also, Crean has now shown that for nearly 20 years.    Wojo may still grow out of it.

This is extremely true.....Crean had a 500 page binder for a playbook and would call plays out of it.....he wasn't exactly scheming new concepts in the huddles either
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2020, 12:00:58 PM »
I don't totally agree with this. Wojo absolutely adjusts to match-ups and adapts schemes in game. Best example is the adjustment he made in the last two minutes of the Providence game to feature Sacar as primary ball handler and decoy with Howard. That's not standard scheme for them. Yes, he generally prefers his standard scheme but he's not above changing it. Another example, they've been featuring a lot more of Howard setting screens and having him pop off of them(especially back screens).

I agree with the defensive example you site, by and large that lack of change (IMHO) was driven not by a system stubbornness but that his personnel were best in that scheme as opposed to changing it. I disagreed with his opinion on the defensive scheme but that's one of many reasons why I'm not a head coach.

Yes, I should have said generally. As to plays out of time outs and inbounds plays, I do agree and I think Wojo is actually underrated on these situationals. Buzz was horrid, for example, with in-bounds plays from under the basket. And, I think Crean often overreacted to the point he got skunked out of time outs (see Stanford).

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2020, 12:08:18 PM »
This is extremely true.....Crean had a 500 page binder for a playbook and would call plays out of it.....he wasn't exactly scheming new concepts in the huddles either

I don’t disagree with you or Tower as our posts from the past contest. CTC thought frenetic activity, including pacing and Diet Coke swigs, would reverse the opponent’s momentum.

Here is how I would rate them:

Game prep: Crean (detail) followed by Buzz (innovative)
In-game and match-ups: Buzz/Deane
Systems: Wojo but paint touches brought a lot of wins.
Situationals: Mixed but all those OT games and wins, I have to net out on Buzz.

Pakuni

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2020, 12:14:53 PM »
I think "slow" or "reluctant" to adjust schemes during games would be more accurate than saying he doesn't do it. There have been occasions, for example, where he's broken out the 2-3 zone to good effect, like the comeback win over Creighton a couple of years ago or even against Maryland this season and made it closer for a bit.

Wish we saw more of that.

tower912

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2020, 12:17:47 PM »
Deane could scheme to keep the score in the 40's, which he needed to because his teams didn't score.    He would burn a time out after the first made basket for the opponent.    He would yank a guy (non-star) when his opponent scored.    His stars got long run because he didn't have many scorers, but woe to the role player.   Right, ners?

Crean had 3000 plays, but ran the weave almost all the time.   His defensive adjustments were limited.   Thought that since he didn't know how to attack a zone, nobody did.    Clapping harder was his main defensive adjustment.

Buzz did have a creative mind.    Showing Brad and Butler a zone they had never seen before in a tournament game.   The driving and dishing of the midget team.    Much of his success was bred upon finding guys with chips on their shoulders, either before they arrived or chips he put there.     That same creative mind convinced him that it was time for him to fly.   

Wojo, for better or worse, is still mostly bound by his Duke background.   His personal background, that made him believe that (A) working harder was the answer (hey, he was defensive player of the year).     And recruiting solves system flaws.    Seriously, how many times has Duke won due to system, versus winning because they had phenomenal players?    So far, still waiting for him to figure out how to do magic. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2020, 12:26:30 PM »
I think "slow" or "reluctant" to adjust schemes during games would be more accurate than saying he doesn't do it. There have been occasions, for example, where he's broken out the 2-3 zone to good effect, like the comeback win over Creighton a couple of years ago or even against Maryland this season and made it closer for a bit.

Wish we saw more of that.

Agree on all counts. Maybe better to use the term “default position”?

I will give you an observation. Texas A&M, who lost all three Orlando games. Buzz never stopped coaching them, even until after the final whistle. He somehow kept the score close, even though they basically had no chance to win. At Creighton or Seton Hall, Wojo just sat down like Bo used to do when it was out of reach (where he doesn’t even have a seat on the bench reserved for him at FF).

Point being, coaches are (mostly) who they are. There are different ways to get there. When MU is running its offensive system, it’s a thing of beauty. When it’s not, we better hope the defense is.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 12:29:09 PM by Dr. Blackheart »

mu03eng

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Re: I didn't get to watch the game...
« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2020, 12:37:57 PM »
I don’t disagree with you or Tower as our posts from the past contest. CTC thought frenetic activity, including pacing and Diet Coke swigs, would reverse the opponent’s momentum.

Here is how I would rate them:

Game prep: Crean (detail) followed by Buzz (innovative)
In-game and match-ups: Buzz/Deane
Systems: Wojo but paint touches brought a lot of wins.
Situationals: Mixed but all those OT games and wins, I have to net out on Buzz.

Maybe it's quibbling but in-game Buzz was generally atrocious with ATO and other set plays. Yes he could adapt the general scheme within games, especially at half but god help him if he needed to get a bucket/stop a bucket out of ATO situations. Wojo is basically the inverse.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

 

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