what kind of result this year gets wojo canned?

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I'm not even sure what this means but the stats I used are adjusted for competition and tempo, so....

The numbers are severely flawed......  there's no comparison between any of buzz's tourney teams and the crap that Wojo spews out on to the floor right now.  The professional level of talent on Buzz's teams dwarfs Wojo's.  The comparison holds no merit whatsoever.   

[Goose]

I say it all the time, watch the game and factor that into your analysis. Stats are great but do not tell the whole story. Buzz's team were far superior defensively than any team Wojo has thrown on the court. I will trust the eye test more times than not.

[BM1090]

The numbers are severely flawed......  there's no comparison between any of buzz's tourney teams and the crap that Wojo spews out on to the floor right now.  The professional level of talent on Buzz's teams dwarfs Wojo's.  The comparison holds no merit whatsoever.   

Got it. No reason trying to reason with someone who disagrees with any stat that doesn't validate their opinion.

[Marquette4life]

I really like stan and would rather have him as a coach over wojo (i really think he is the strong recruiter anyways) but not sure if it comes down to firing wojo if we could take a partial reboot,  might have to just blow up the whole thing but those recruits we have on the docket might just force the program to keep stan in the hopes that garcia and co stay.

COULDNT AGREE MORE

[Elonsmusk]

Isn’t Stan part of the current staff, game planning and strategy, scouting and recruiting? 

The harm is pushing a program into uncharted waters for 2 to 3 years by promoting someone from a staff that you already believe is underperforming.

Stan does not get to make playing time decisions, decide rotations, etc.  Personally, I feel we'd be a trainwreck of a program if Stan weren't on this staff - he's our ace recruiter, best rapport with players, helped us avoid a bigger mutiny this past off-season. 

There have been many assistant coaches who have gone on to exceed their former boss. 

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Got it. No reason trying to reason with someone who disagrees with any stat that doesn't validate their opinion.

You clearly haven't factored in talent level.  The amount of people Buzz has put into the NBA/Europe vs. Wojo is overwhelming.  That alone crushes your numeric theory.

[BM1090]

You clearly haven't factored in talent level.  The amount of people Buzz has put into the NBA/Europe vs. Wojo is overwhelming.  That alone crushes your numeric theory.

We don't disagree on talent level. Buzz's teams were superior when it comes to pro talent, no question. We disagree whether there is a scheme and the overall quality of defense.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

We don't disagree on talent level. Buzz's teams were superior when it comes to pro talent, no question. We disagree whether there is a scheme and the overall quality of defense.

Last night aside, I think the general quality of MUs defense is good and definitely good enough to have a top-25 team.  We couldn't say the same thing a few years ago (which actually resembled last night).

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

What's the system then?  Stats don't account for rotating defensively, helping out, blocking passing lanes, boxing out, etc. of which MU doesn't consistently perform.  Not to mention, how many of MU's losses were cut shorter by garbage time 3 pointers made?  Let's be honest, Wojo's high scoring offensive approach hasn't worked.  If you can't turn around a program in 3 -4 years, you're not MU material.  It's time to go when your incoming recruiting class is your selling point and you lost 2 of your best players to the transfer pool.

  Watch LaSalle play defense and there's a clear difference between the 2 teams.  Furthermore, one coach is in year 2 while the other is in year 6.  That says a lot right there.

[willie warrior]

Wojo ain't going to get canned by the admin  unless he goes about 3 and 14 rest of year, and then only maybe. The guy can recruit but cannot coach, that is patently obvious. He is in a holding pattern for Duke, but he shouldn't hold his breath for that. Doubt if he even goes 9-9 in BEast. He cant coach, and the talent is not capable. There will be more blow outs like last night, but also a game or 2 that he squeaks out against a team not expected. Hell, would not be surprised if DePaul sweeps Wojo ass this year. But we should realistically expect the Homer's to continue to rationalize that Wojo needs another 3 or 4 years before the jury wakes up.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Wojo ain't going to get canned by the admin  unless he goes about 3 and 14 rest of year, and then only maybe. The guy can recruit but cannot coach, that is patently obvious. He is in a holding pattern for Duke, but he shouldn't hold his breath for that. Doubt if he even goes 9-9 in BEast. He cant coach, and the talent is not capable. There will be more blow outs like last night, but also a game or 2 that he squeaks out against a team not expected. Hell, would not be surprised if DePaul sweeps Wojo ass this year. But we should realistically expect the Homer's to continue to rationalize that Wojo needs another 3 or 4 years before the jury wakes up.

Finally, someone with the ability to see reality.  Can Wojo recruit though?  His guys have been mostly flops from the get-go.  Not to mention, the guys he recruit don't fit a system or a mold specifically.  Recruiting is all over the map which proves that Wojo doesn't have much of a vision or idea of how to put a team together.  Throw in lack of player development and you have a 0 wins in the 68 field of NCAA teams - literally the easiest field to get into in its history - especially with the one and done athletes.

Wojo will go down as the MU Coach who let DePaul become a better program for the first time in 30 years.

[Cheeks]

Stan does not get to make playing time decisions, decide rotations, etc.  Personally, I feel we'd be a trainwreck of a program if Stan weren't on this staff - he's our ace recruiter, best rapport with players, helped us avoid a bigger mutiny this past off-season. 

There have been many assistant coaches who have gone on to exceed their former boss.

How are you aware of what Stan Johnson or other coaches get to decide what?  Typically how it works is the asst coaches will work with the head coach on who is doing best in practice, who is ideal for certain matchups, etc. You make it sound like that isn't the case.  Do you have anything other than a personal opinion to suggest the HC is out on an island making these decisions?

[Eye]

I'd say it would take about something like 4-14 in the BE for a for-sure firing. Tourney keeps him around, even if they're not competitive in a tourney game or worse (NIT, no tourney) for the 6th straight year. Something in the 5-13 to 7-11 range would probably require something bad to happen off the court. That all being said, hope they turn it around and get over the hump this year.

[dgies9156]

I believe ZERO chance he gets canned. He may leave for another program, but it will not be due to pressure by MU or the fan base. IMO, there are still enough homers out there that get excited over a possible team that zero pressure is on Wojo to succeed at higher level. This board is made up of fans that care more than most and "next year" or throwing computer numbers is enough to keep most relatively happy.

Here's why I agree with you:

1) It's about the revenue. As long as the attendance is strong and the TV revenue remains and the Big East doesn't cut us, we're not changing.

2) As long as there are no NCAA violations or character issues, Wojo is OK.

3) Finally, we probably are a .500 team in the Big East and will have a winning record.

I also think the administration doesn't want an NCAA blue blood any more. The crap they'll take from the basketball program, from the professors and the academic community at MU and, possibly, the community if MU is a long-term blue blood likely is more than they want to deal with. Many of us today remember the McGuire years as seashells and balloons but there was an enormous amount of consternation, ranging from battles with the NCAA, feuds with Adolph Rupp, salary disputes, contract negotiations et al.

Realistically, I suspect they've made the same evaluation the Tribune Company did with the Cubs. The cost of going from where we are to being a blue blood is not outweighed by the revenue and prestige it will generate. Better to be mediocre and optimize net income that to be a Blue Blood and face the above-noted challenges.

Under this scenario, Wojo retires from Marquette in about 2045.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Y'all are crazy if you think MU doesn't aspire to be elite in college basketball

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Y'all are crazy if you think MU doesn't aspire to be elite in college basketball

Yep.  They will not cut certain corners to get there, but MU clearly wants to be elite.

[Goose]

TAMU

They might want to be elite, but have little clue on to make that happen. Wanting to be something and doing it are two different things. The closet MU was to elite, post Al, was the Buzz era. They have fallen woefully short since his departure. IMO, I would rather think they are OK with current status than think they are trying to be elite. They resemble a bubble team slowly going in reverse at the moment.

You and I have had our debates/disagreements over the years, but I do respect much of what you say. One question, what makes you so confident that they want to be elite? The on court product has delivered little in over a half decade.

[WarriorPride68]

I do not see Wojo getting canned any time soon. Woj has Broeker in his back pocket.

but with that said, we need to talk about the facts. 107–72 (.598) overall and 43–48 (.473) in conference with 0 tourney wins in 6.5 years is baffling. Woj has signed multiple top 25 classes (247), and in total inked 10 top 100 prospects (247) to date. Something just is not translating to the court.

as a top 10 spending CBB program in the country - you would expect more results this far into the wojo era

[79Warrior]

TAMU

They might want to be elite, but have little clue on to make that happen. Wanting to be something and doing it are two different things. The closet MU was to elite, post Al, was the Buzz era. They have fallen woefully short since his departure. IMO, I would rather think they are OK with current status than think they are trying to be elite. They resemble a bubble team slowly going in reverse at the moment.

You and I have had our debates/disagreements over the years, but I do respect much of what you say. One question, what makes you so confident that they want to be elite? The on court product has delivered little in over a half decade.

Goose,

I tend to agree with you but I am not sure the University leadership is clueless on this issue. MU puts plenty of resources into the program. At the end of the day, every successful program is coach driven. This it the area where MU has struggled. We can all debate the reason for that. I honestly do not know. My suspicion is it is very difficult for MU to attract and retain the type of coach some fans would like to see at MU. It is not for lack of effort. I think that is part of the reason why many of the head coaches in the post Al era has been assistants taking their first head coaching gig. We struggle attracting seasoned Head coaches. Again, we can all debate the "why", but it unfortunately the situation the program finds itself in.

I certainly hope Wojo succeeds and decides Marquette and Milwaukee will be his destination for a long time. History may suggest otherwise.

[Goose]

WarriorPride

IMO, what makes his record worse is the number of wins against teams that have no chance to beat us. He has to have 40-50% of his wins against a cupcake NC schedule.

[Goose]

79Warrior

I believe that MU basketball has been such a cash cow for nearly 50 years that is taken as a given by the school. The world is changing and the number of fans that remember the glory days are fading quickly. IMO, if MU wants to be elite, they need to make a full court press and make it happen.

For those worried about losing current players or recruits if a change is made, that is part of big time sports. If Wojo is not the guy, which I now firmly believe, than MU needs to move on, regardless of incoming recruiting class. For the record, the incoming class is a nice one, especially if it was pairing up with a great core of returning players, but it is not the Fab Five.

[1SE]

I do not see Wojo getting canned any time soon. Woj has Broeker in his back pocket.

but with that said, we need to talk about the facts. 107–72 (.598) overall and 43–48 (.473) in conference with 0 tourney wins in 6.5 years is baffling. Woj has signed multiple top 25 classes (247), and in total inked 10 top 100 prospects (247) to date. Something just is not translating to the court.

as a top 10 spending CBB program in the country - you would expect more results this far into the wojo era

Interesting. Any quick and easy way of getting his record against teams that made the NCAA in that year?

[Elonsmusk]

I think most MU fans are ok if the process is a slow build assuming there is a good payoff. That’s why you see the Wright, Coach K, and other examples of coaches that took some time to get going.

To me, the worry is this was supposed to be the year we were building to. However, it looks like we are getting more of the same. Solid team with some flaws that is trending towards a first round exit. Then next year we get the “we’re a young team” press conferences. Hopefully we turn it around and I’m just being glass half empty right now.

Actually it was last year we were to have been building to - the magical power point year 5, that imploded and ended with an epic thud.  Who's to blame for that?

Let's look ahead to next year, Year 7, we lose Markus and Sacar.  We desperately need to land Karim Mane, as we need a guard who can be a force.  I like Symir and Greg, yet neither are the type that can go get you a bucket if needed.  In fact, I don't see any player on next year's roster that you can just give the ball to and say - get us a bucket.  Maybe Dawson?

[Cheeks]

Y'all are crazy if you think MU doesn't aspire to be elite in college basketball

Yup, but I keep reading here that the university isn't committed.  Uhm, ok.

[Cheeks]

79Warrior

I believe that MU basketball has been such a cash cow for nearly 50 years that is taken as a given by the school. The world is changing and the number of fans that remember the glory days are fading quickly. IMO, if MU wants to be elite, they need to make a full court press and make it happen.

For those worried about losing current players or recruits if a change is made, that is part of big time sports. If Wojo is not the guy, which I now firmly believe, than MU needs to move on, regardless of incoming recruiting class. For the record, the incoming class is a nice one, especially if it was pairing up with a great core of returning players, but it is not the Fab Five.

Honest question Goose because I know your heart is always in the right place.

It sounds to me like you are saying spend $10M a year on a coach or something so ridiculous and so above market to get a sure-fire, slam dunk, cannot miss coach to MU....otherwise, I'm having trouble following what you are saying.  I take it as just another roll of the dice which is what it always is with a new coach, especially at MU.  There's a reason why we get top assistants to take this job and not established, big-name coaches.  Whether it is the weather, the geography (talent in the area), conference, etc.

Are you suggesting some "full-court press" (please explain what this means) to go after a Billy Donovan or someone of that stature?  If not, who would you identify at a more reasonable rate that is going to achieve what you want it to achieve?

I'm asking with no snark, I'm generally curious what your statement means and how you fulfill it. In my view it is easy to say get a new coach, get a winner, get a ________, quite different to identify who that is AND actually get that person to come to MU.