Markus GOAT

[Goose]

TAMU

If Howard pulls a Kemba, it will be the single greatest season ever by an MU player..

[TallTitan34]

TAMU

If Howard pulls a Kemba, it will be the single greatest season ever by an MU player..

And you've stated you still wouldn't have him in your top 10 which seems crazy to me.

[4everwarriors]

I think Al's ego cost Marquette a second National Championship.

Doubt it. Al liked to tell that story. But, if you studied the Al years, he frequently fell on his sword to take the pressure off his players. MU was not going to beat NC State with David Thompson in Greensboro in 1974.

[🏀]

Doubt it. Al likes to tell tell story. But, if you studied the Al years, he frequently fell on his sword to take the pressure off his players. MU was not going to beat NC State with David Thompson in Greensboro in 1974.

How much money do you think this cost MU in the long run? Two national championships looks a lot better on Marquette's resume than one.

[Goose]

NC State would have beaten us 9 out of 10 times, especially in NC. Al's ego did not cost MU the game. In similar situation, IU was a dream team and Al's antics did not cost us that game.

[brewcity77]

So if Markus drags this team to a Big East Tournament and NCAA Tournament title while being named Most Outstanding Player of the NCAAs & earning a first team All-American slot he wouldn't crack the top ten? That's funny.

[Lennys Tap]

Man, if these guys from the 70s were such complete players with the highest IQs, often played on the same teams and led by the best coach off all-time, you'd think they would've won more, aina?

The last 10 years of Al tenure we were the second best program in the country - behind only UCLA and John Wooden, better than Dean Smith and N Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, etc. We were a top 10 team every year. We declined a bid one year and won what was still a prestigious NIT tournament. In the other 9 we won 1 title, were runner up once and had multiple elite 8s. Our WORST finish in those years was the Sweet 16. Those 10 years produced 10 of the best 12 teams in Marquette history.

Look, I get that those who didn't experience it don't have the attachment to that era that we old farts have - history isn't as exciting as living something. I wish that all Scoopers would could have gone through it.

[🏀]

The last 10 years of Al tenure we were the second best program in the country - behind only UCLA and John Wooden, better than Dean Smith and N Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, etc. We were a top 10 team every year. We declined a bid one year and won what was still a prestigious NIT tournament. In the other 9 we won 1 title, were runner up once and had multiple elite 8s. Our WORST finish in those years was the Sweet 16. Those 10 years produced 10 of the best 12 teams in Marquette history.

Look, I get that those who didn't experience it don't have the attachment to that era that we old farts have - history isn't as exciting as living something. I wish that all Scoopers would could have gone through it.

Lenny

I know you get my point, just pointing out some if the gate keeping of Markus going on.

[Bad_Reporter]

The last 10 years of Al tenure we were the second best program in the country - behind only UCLA and John Wooden, better than Dean Smith and N Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, etc. We were a top 10 team every year. We declined a bid one year and won what was still a prestigious NIT tournament. In the other 9 we won 1 title, were runner up once and had multiple elite 8s. Our WORST finish in those years was the Sweet 16. Those 10 years produced 10 of the best 12 teams in Marquette history.

Look, I get that those who didn't experience it don't have the attachment to that era that we old farts have - history isn't as exciting as living something. I wish that all Scoopers would could have gone through it.

But it's a #crapshoot

[🏀]

NC State would have beaten us 9 out of 10 times, especially in NC. Al's ego did not cost MU the game. In similar situation, IU was a dream team and Al's antics did not cost us that game.

Al's decision doesn't age well.

[Lennys Tap]

Doubt it. Al liked to tell that story. But, if you studied the Al years, he frequently fell on his sword to take the pressure off his players. MU was not going to beat NC State with David Thompson in Greensboro in 1974.

Agree, Doc. 70-71 and 71-72 were the other years we could have (should have?) won the title. 27-0 when the refs stole that S16 game vs Ohio St and 22-0 when Chones went pro.

[TallTitan34]

So you guys are saying Al was afraid to play NC State so he dodged the tournament?

That's an even worse look.

[Silent Verbal]

So you guys are saying Al was afraid to play NC State so he dodged the tournament?

That's an even worse look.

This is a no good, very bad post.

[The Sultan]

So you guys are saying Al was afraid to play NC State so he dodged the tournament?

That's an even worse look.

No, they are talking about the finals loss in 1974.  I don't think they woudl have won the NCAA in 1970. 

[TallTitan34]

No, they are talking about the finals loss in 1974.  I don't think they woudl have won the NCAA in 1970.

That makes more sense. Al didn't seem like a guy afraid of a fight.

I'm talking about 1970. His ego cost him a nice shot at a National Championship.

[Goose]

PTM
Gate keeping of Markus? My evaluation of Howard has zero to do with the Al era. I simply believe he is one dimensional, but awfully good at that one skill. What many on here fail to realize, I hope Wojo recruits guys that put Al's guys on ice. Sadly, for over 40 years the talent has not surpassed a ten year run in program history.
Nothing would make me happier than MU recruiting a guy that makes me forget about Bo or Butch. I have said countless times that I am tired of the Al era in regards how it rammed down on our throats by MU. Hopefully somewhere down the line a new era is romanticized by younger fans. If younger fans want to get excited about Howard averaging 30, without a win in March, go for it and embrace it.

[🏀]

PTM
Gate keeping of Markus? My evaluation of Howard has zero to do with the Al era. I simply believe he is one dimensional, but awfully good at that one skill. What many on here fail to realize, I hope Wojo recruits guys that put Al's guys on ice. Sadly, for over 40 years the talent has not surpassed a ten year run in program history.
Nothing would make me happier than MU recruiting a guy that makes me forget about Bo or Butch. I have said countless times that I am tired of the Al era in regards how it rammed down on our throats by MU. Hopefully somewhere down the line a new era is romanticized by younger fans. If younger fans want to get excited about Howard averaging 30, without a win in March, go for it and embrace it.

Yep.

[TallTitan34]

If younger fans want to get excited about Howard averaging 30, without a win in March, go for it and embrace it.

But you have said you wouldn't change your view of Markus even with March success.

[brewcity77]

If younger fans want to get excited about Howard averaging 30, without a win in March, go for it and embrace it.

This is goalpost shifting. A "Kemba like run" would have to be at least a Big East Final & Final Four appearance while winning at least one. Any reference to Kemba's success is talking about March, not what he did while leading UConn to a 9-9, tied for 11th in the league finish.

[Lennys Tap]

So if Markus drags this team to a Big East Tournament and NCAA Tournament title while being named Most Outstanding Player of the NCAAs & earning a first team All-American slot he wouldn't crack the top ten? That's funny.

I agree 100% with this.

That said, the question is where he stands now, not playing the "What if?" game.

One more point that hasn't been brought up - the state of college basketball. As Wades points out in another thread, the level of play is not good. The best players leave after one year, so an outstanding player like Markus who sticks around for 4 years has a tremendous advantage that those guys in the 70s didn't have. A lot of the best players who arrived in college with Markus (and a year or two after him) are gone.

[The Sultan]

That makes more sense. Al didn't seem like a guy afraid of a fight.

I'm talking about 1970. His ego cost him a nice shot at a National Championship.

Maybe.  The Final Four that year included four of the top five ranked teams.  And in reality, the midwest region would have been easier for Marquette with only a New Mexico State team to beat.  The mideast was loaded with Kentucky, Jacksonville and Notre Dame.  It really was a dumb decision, but I don't think it cost them a title.

[TallTitan34]

Maybe.  The Final Four that year included four of the top five ranked teams.  And in reality, the midwest region would have been easier for Marquette with only a New Mexico State team to beat.  The mideast was loaded with Kentucky, Jacksonville and Notre Dame.  It really was a dumb decision, but I don't think it cost them a title.

Sure would have liked to see a 22-3 team try at least.

[🏀]

I agree 100% with this.

That said, the question is where he stands now, not playing the "What if?" game.

One more point that hasn't been brought up - the state of college basketball. As Wades points out in another thread, the level of play is not good. The best players leave after one year, so an outstanding player like Markus who sticks around for 4 years has a tremendous advantage that those guys in the 70s didn't have. A lot of the best players who arrived in college with Markus (and a year or two after him) are gone.

Does a single 70's team stay intact in today's game though? I think that's the single largest advantage of the era.

[The Sultan]

Sure would have liked to see a 22-3 team try at least.

That schedule was as soft as a marshmellow.  They played only two teams that made the NCAA tournament. (Won at home v. Drake and lost at Notre Dame)  I believe those were the only two teams that were ranked at any point of the year. 

[Goose]

PTM

Yep is right. I am tired of talking about success of a lifetime ago. Never want to forget a great time in my life, but would love another era of greatness. I have said countless times that MU should move on from the Al era.
I was not around, or barely around, for the Packer Lombardi era and love that we have recent Packer success to embrace. I love that we compare three all time great QB's and debate which is better. To date, aside from Wade, I do not believe MU has provided the on court success to make old guys forget Al and his players.