General state of college basketball

[Cheeks]

When was the last time you played basketball for several hours in a day?  I play once a week for 2 hours and I'm still sore the next day even though I work out pretty much every day.  Part of that is certainly due to me being 36...

Now do that several times a week (or pretty much every day) over the course of something like 8 months...they need the rest even if they are some of the most elite athletes in the world.

Getting guys rest is something I don't have issue with, unless you catch a team with a star taking a night off and you have tickets to said game, but that's purely personal...the no defense thing, while it certainly happens from time to time, I think this is something that is grossly overstated, but that's just my opinion.

Yes, you are 36...I'm in my 50's.  Sorry, but us old timers we used to watch guys play 82 games all the time unless injured...going all the way back to like 5 years ago.  LOL. 

People are paying a fortune to go watch these guys play.  Between this, tanking, etc....bad taste in the mouth.  The days of playing to the finish, suiting up and giving it your all regardless of score or place in the standings...different world today.  Try 75% of the time and get rewarded. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It seems like folks are talking about two different things.  Any who claims that the product is better at the collegiate level (i.e. Duke/UK can beat the Knicks, Bama can beat the Dolphins) is just stupid.  Feel free to call them out to your hearts content.  Saying that you prefer the collegiate game for whatever reason is an opinion.  Personally I hate it when you see professionals laughing on the bench in the 4th quarter of a 20 point loss.  If they know that they're not going to the playoffs, all they care about is that their check arrives on time.  That's something that you will never see any college player do. 

Right.  Because the one thing no one can do when they have a bad day at work is laugh.  Must be serious.  All of the time.

[JWags85]

I was talking about myself. As a fan, I enjoy college basketball more, regardless of talent differences. Not sure how you can possibly take issue with my opinion.

I enjoy March Madness more than the NBA Playoffs. I also find the college regular season (conference, at least), more enjoyable than the NBA regular season. Can I have that opinion?

Of course man.  Like what you like.  Too often college basketball fans have the same tired attacks on the NBA to the extend that they then downplay the quality of play or other things, and that I take umbrage with.  You're not, its all good.

When was the last time you played basketball for several hours in a day?  I play once a week for 2 hours and I'm still sore the next day even though I work out pretty much every day.  Part of that is certainly due to me being 36...

Now do that several times a week (or pretty much every day) over the course of something like 8 months...they need the rest even if they are some of the most elite athletes in the world.

Getting guys rest is something I don't have issue with, unless you catch a team with a star taking a night off and you have tickets to said game, but that's purely personal...the no defense thing, while it certainly happens from time to time, I think this is something that is grossly overstated, but that's just my opinion.

Well said.  And thats not factoring in the long flights and other travel.  Anyone who has been on a business trip that requires multiple flights and hotels in multiple days can attest to it being exhausting, and thats not factoring in strenuous games on those days.  But hey, they get paid so they should suck it up, right?

And couldn't agree more about the defense.  It certainly has nothing to do with ability.  Luka scored 22 in the 1Q the other day and multiple of his bombs were contested with a hand in his face.  He certainly wouldn't have made those if they played defense in the NBA like college  .

[JWags85]

Yes, you are 36...I'm in my 50's.  Sorry, but us old timers we used to watch guys play 82 games all the time unless injured...going all the way back to like 5 years ago.  LOL. 

People are paying a fortune to go watch these guys play.  Between this, tanking, etc....bad taste in the mouth.  The days of playing to the finish, suiting up and giving it your all regardless of score or place in the standings...different world today.  Try 75% of the time and get rewarded.

THIS JUST IN, SPOILED MILLENIALS HAVE NOW RUINED PROFESSIONAL SPORTS

[Coleman]

I'm with Chicos. Michael Jordan started all 82 games for 8 of his 14 NBA seasons. It can be done.

[Its DJOver]

Right.  Because the one thing no one can do when they have a bad day at work is laugh.  Must be serious.  All of the time.

Really, you'd be okay with Giannis sitting on the bench laughing at the end of a bucks blowout loss?  I'm not saying that you have to be serious all the time, or that the NBA guys don't care, I'm just saying that this is one element that the professional game has that the collegiate level doesn't, and that's one of the reasons why I prefer the collegiate. 

[Cheeks]

Load management makes perfect sense considering how many games these guys play.  And "no defense?"  Anyone who still makes that argument about the NBA doesn't know what they're watching.

LOL.  What a shock you support this.  Yes, when the NBA increased the games from 82 to .....uhm....82.  Yes, there are so many more games now.  My God.  This is all about MONEY which has gotten so out of hand that they want to preserve their investment, and the players have all the power now.  Screw the fans, they'll play when they damn well feel like it.

NBA defense is a joke for at least half the game.  I guess Kyrie Irving and Draymond Green don't know what they are watching.  LOL

"There's no defense. There's just none. We're all NBA players and if you see an open look at the rim, I'm pretty sure we're going to knock it down over 50 percent of the time if it's wide open. More or less no defense and effort. That's what it comes down to; nobody should be scoring that many points."
Kyrie Irving

"We were told that. Defense isn't really an emphasis anymore in this league. So I think you're seeing it all around the league with these high scores. We know what the emphasis is."
Draymond Green

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Really, you'd be okay with Giannis sitting on the bench laughing at the end of a bucks blowout loss? 

Absolutely.  Giannis has shown that he is a massive competitor and a fantastic player.  If he wants to yuck it up on the bench after a 20 point loss, that is fine by me.  I don't think it says anything about his competitiveness.

I'm not saying that you have to be serious all the time, or that the NBA guys don't care, I'm just saying that this is one element that the professional game has that the collegiate level doesn't, and that's one of the reasons why I prefer the collegiate. 

Because of meaningless end of game gestures?

Hey whatever makes you happy I guess.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm with Chicos. Michael Jordan started all 82 games for 8 of his 14 NBA seasons. It can be done.

You guys are starting to sound like the "no one pitches complete games anymore" kind of guys.

[Cheeks]

I'm with Chicos. Michael Jordan started all 82 games for 8 of his 14 NBA seasons. It can be done.

Jordan played in 80 or more games in 11 of his 15 seasons.  He played 78 in another one.

In two years he played less than 20 because he was injured and out. 

[Cheeks]

Of course man.  Like what you like.  Too often college basketball fans have the same tired attacks on the NBA to the extend that they then downplay the quality of play or other things, and that I take umbrage with.  You're not, its all good.

Well said.  And thats not factoring in the long flights and other travel.  Anyone who has been on a business trip that requires multiple flights and hotels in multiple days can attest to it being exhausting, and thats not factoring in strenuous games on those days.  But hey, they get paid so they should suck it up, right?

And couldn't agree more about the defense.  It certainly has nothing to do with ability.  Luka scored 22 in the 1Q the other day and multiple of his bombs were contested with a hand in his face.  He certainly wouldn't have made those if they played defense in the NBA like college  .

The long flights?  My God.  They travel charter now, in the old days they flew commercial half the time.  They used to travel by TRAIN!  The travel is LESS now than it was even 15 years ago.  No Seattle any longer, two teams in Los Angeles, only one team in Canada now.  These poor guys, how do they do it with all of this travel.  The long travel.  LOL. 

Defense...yup, I'll just ignore the players that say there is no defense...just ignore them.  LOL. No different than the rules in the NFL designed to light up the score board, defense is less emphasized.  It doesn't exist anymore.

"It would be very hard," Beverley said, "to come into the league today and try to play defense like we did years ago. There is where we're at. They want to see more scoring, more up-and-down, more points and all that, which is understandable. Of course, it makes it hard for me."
Patrick Beverly

"Defense is not allowed. You can't really play defense in this league. I guess that's not what they want."
Draymond Green

[Its DJOver]

Serious question FBM, do you think Evan Turner really cares what happens on a game to game basis.  He's at the end of his career, playing for a team that isn't going to make the playoffs.  He can talk about wanting to help the young guys, but he knows that he won't be around the next time the Hawks think they'll have a competitive team.  He is there to cash his checks.  Do you think that Matt Heldt had a similar midset his Senior year.  He knew he wasn't going to be a difference maker, but he still busted his butt off every time he stepped on the court.  You get equal passion from scholly 1-13 on college, you do not get that in the NBA.  That makes me happy.

[Cheeks]

Serious question FBM, do you think Evan Turner really cares what happens on a game to game basis.  He's at the end of his career, playing for a team that isn't going to make the playoffs.  He can talk about wanting to help the young guys, but he knows that he won't be around the next time the Hawks think they'll have a competitive team.  He is there to cash his checks.  Do you think that Matt Heldt had a similar midset his Senior year.  He knew he wasn't going to be a difference maker, but he still busted his butt off every time he stepped on the court.  You get equal passion from scholly 1-13 on college, you do not get that in the NBA.  That makes me happy.

BINGO

[Coleman]

Jordan played in 80 or more games in 11 of his 15 seasons.  He played 78 in another one.

In two years he played less than 20 because he was injured and out.

Yup. He was the ultimate competitor. I haven't really had an interest in the NBA since he left....with the exception of following and cheering for MU guys who have made it to the association. That is really the only thing I care about in the NBA.

[Galway Eagle]

It's the star treatment that annoys me in the NBA. Too many videos out there of Lebron or Harden and others wayyyy over selling a non hit. Sometimes just falling when there wasn't even a motion toward them

[JWags85]

The long flights?  My God.  They travel charter now, in the old days they flew commercial half the time.  They used to travel by TRAIN!  The travel is LESS now than it was even 15 years ago.  No Seattle any longer, two teams in Los Angeles, only one team in Canada now.  These poor guys, how do they do it with all of this travel.  The long travel.  LOL. 

Defense...yup, I'll just ignore the players that say there is no defense...just ignore them.  LOL. No different than the rules in the NFL designed to light up the score board, defense is less emphasized.  It doesn't exist anymore.

"It would be very hard," Beverley said, "to come into the league today and try to play defense like we did years ago. There is where we're at. They want to see more scoring, more up-and-down, more points and all that, which is understandable. Of course, it makes it hard for me."
Patrick Beverly

"Defense is not allowed. You can't really play defense in this league. I guess that's not what they want."
Draymond Green

You're such a condescending simplistic jackass with your "LOL" nonsense. I know it's your internet front cause you'd be laughed out of every boardroom if you reacted to people that disagreed with you in the same way in a business setting. It's not a single 3 hour flight. It's  everything that goes into a gameday, plus travel and uneven sleep. Just cause Bob Cousy played 82 games and traveled by train, thus the league is exactly the same and everyone should. As if the game is remotely the same and athletics and performance hasn't changed at all. The ability and effort is definitely the same to be an All Star now as when a behind the back dribble used to buckled guys knees and athletes smoked and drank during games. But they make millions, so they should shut up and dribble for your dollar. Extending careers and productivity and ensuring the high level of play in the playoffs cause guys aren't injured and exhausted is for babies.

And you misinterpreted those comments so completely, but that's par for the course for your agenda driven BS. 2 players who pride themselves and make much of their money from defense are complaining about changes in officiating that support offense, so that means defense is non existent. Ok. Cherry pick more comments made in frustration to support your nonsense that doesn't fly with anyone but vocal NBA critics.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Serious question FBM, do you think Evan Turner really cares what happens on a game to game basis.  He's at the end of his career, playing for a team that isn't going to make the playoffs.  He can talk about wanting to help the young guys, but he knows that he won't be around the next time the Hawks think they'll have a competitive team.  He is there to cash his checks.  Do you think that Matt Heldt had a similar midset his Senior year.  He knew he wasn't going to be a difference maker, but he still busted his butt off every time he stepped on the court.  You get equal passion from scholly 1-13 on college, you do not get that in the NBA.  That makes me happy.

Is Evan Turner been a problem of some sort?  Because I haven't heard anything.  He's doing his job.  Crossed over Lebron the other night, but generally doing paid for what he supposed to be doing.

Watching an amateur working hard at being an amateur isn't anything special for me.  I have a rooting interest in Matt Heldt because I'm a Marquette fan.  But otherwise I don't really care all that much about watching the Matt Heldt's of the the world playing college basketball.

I'd rather watch a talented player doing well at his job than a passionate run-of-the-mill guy being average at his.  There's nothing special about passion.

[Its DJOver]

Is Evan Turner been a problem of some sort?  Because I haven't heard anything.  He's doing his job.  Crossed over Lebron the other night, but generally doing paid for what he supposed to be doing.

Watching an amateur working hard at being an amateur isn't anything special for me.  I have a rooting interest in Matt Heldt because I'm a Marquette fan.  But otherwise I don't really care all that much about watching the Matt Heldt's of the the world playing college basketball.

I'd rather watch a talented player going about his job than a passionate run-of-the-mill guy going about his.  There's nothing special about passion.

So if it's all about entertainment value, and just watching a guy do his job, why not watch the G-League.  Higher scoring, more highlight material, cheaper tickets.  College athletes generally play for the name on the front of the jersey, and pros play for the name on the back.  Not saying that's the case 100% of the time, not saying that's wrong or that NBA players shouldn't make money, just saying that it's different, and that matters to some people.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So if it's all about entertainment value, and just watching a guy do his job, why not watch the G-League.  Higher scoring, more highlight material, cheaper tickets.  College athletes generally play for the name on the front of the jersey, and pros play for the name on the back.  Not saying that's the case 100% of the time, not saying that's wrong or that NBA players shouldn't make money, just saying that it's different, and that matters to some people.

Oh God.  You can't be serious with that cliche.  Just because they are paid doesn't mean they don't want to win, don't work hard and aren't good teammates.

And I don't watch the G-League because it's worse basketball.

[Cheeks]

You're such a condescending simplistic jackass with your "LOL" nonsense. I know it's your internet front cause you'd be laughed out of every boardroom if you reacted to people that disagreed with you in the sam way in a business setting. It's not a single 3 hour flight. It's  everything that goes into a gameday, plus travel and uneven sleep. Just cause Bob Cousy played 82 games and traveled by train, the league is exactly the same and everyone should. As if the game is remotely the same and athletics and performance hasn't changed at all. The ability and effort is definitely the same to be an All Star now as when a behind the back dribble used to buckled guys knees and athletes smoked and drank during games. But they make millions, so they should shut up and dribble for your dollar. Extending careers and productivity and ensuring the high level of play in the playoffs cause guys aren't injured and exhausted is for babies.

And you misinterpreted those comments so completely, but that's par for the course for your agenda driven BS. 2 players who pride themselves and make much of their money from defense are complaining about changes in officiating that support offense, so that means defense is non existent. Ok. Cherry pick more comments made in frustration to support your nonsense that doesn't fly with anyone but vocal NBA critics.

I'm cherry picking comments from players saying there is no defense played along with millions of observers saying / implying the same, etc?  Uhm, ok.  Seems strange that these NBA players are saying this, and it aligns with so many fans and non fans, but ok.

Condescending...I give what I get here.  Pretty simple.

Yes, we're all aware of how athletic people are today.  Was Jordan, and others not athletic 20 years ago?  Aside from smoking weed constantly, were a bunch of guys smoking with beer guts a short while ago which made the travel better then? 

Don't you also have to factor in today's technology that allows these same tired players to scout on the plane which they couldn't do back in the day...or get rehabilitated with therapies today that didn't even exist 10 years ago?  Doesn't it go both ways?  Come on...the travel?  Just admit it...that was lame (can you say la e in today's world?.

[Its DJOver]

Oh God.  You can't be serious with that cliche.  Just because they are paid doesn't mean they don't want to win, don't work hard and aren't good teammates.

Didn't say that they aren't.  You could work hard and be a great teammate, but at the end of the day, for the vast majority of professional athletes, its about the number next to the dollar sign (just ask dgies his opinion about one Albert Pujols).  That is why for sports that I generally don't care about, I end up rooting for the team with the best "stories" (the Blues with Pat Maroon, Laila Anderson etc), and I think a lot of people think the same way about CBB (Sister Jean).

And I don't watch the G-League because it's worse basketball.

Using what metric?  CBB was ripped earlier because of the lack of scoring.  I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if hitting shots is a criteria for "quality" of basketball, the G-League is outperforming the NBA

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Didn't say that they aren't.  You could work hard and be a great teammate, but at the end of the day, for the vast majority of professional athletes, its about the number next to the dollar sign (just ask dgies his opinion about one Albert Pujols).  That is why for sports that I generally don't care about, I end up rooting for the team with the best "stories" (the Blues with Pat Maroon, Laila Anderson etc), and I think a lot of people think the same way about CBB (Sister Jean).

Of couse professionals care about getting paid.  It is their job.  People can get paid for their work, and still do it well and be good teammates.  I'm not going to fire everyone on my staff and replace them with unpaid interns who do their job "passionately."  Because they'd suck at it.

And that is why I was rooting for Michigan over Loyola because I like watching Belein teams play - and don't give a rip about Sister Jean.

Using what metric?  CBB was ripped earlier because of the lack of scoring.  I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if hitting shots is a criteria for "quality" of basketball, the G-League is outperforming the NBA

First of all, I never said anything about scoring.  But if the basis of your argument is that the G-League is better basketball then the NBA, then you probably need a better argument.

[Uncle Rico]

The NBA product has gotten much better the last decade.  The college product has gotten worse.  I don't care which one you like more.  Personal preference doesn't matter.  You like what you like and that's okay, who cares one way or the other? 

I simply don't see how anyone can argue college basketball is in a better place than it was in even 2000.  Doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't enjoy it.  But I can watch Dwyane Wade and Marquette highlights from 2003 and see it isn't just Marquette not playing that well nowadays, none of the top teams are.  Today's game is a slog and last years Final 4 was the cherry on the top.   

[Its DJOver]

Of couse professionals care about getting paid.  It is their job.  People can get paid for their work, and still do it well and be good teammates. 

Once again, not saying that they can't, but sticking with the Evan Turner example, you offer him 10% more anywhere else in the league, and he's gone.  You offer Markus a full ride at a school that costs 10% more, he's still at Marquette (part of the reason I'm on the fence about the paying college athletes thing).

I don't understand why you're trying to tell me that my opinion is wrong?  I prefer watching CBB, I've given one example why, there are more.  If you prefer professional that's fine, that's your opinion and I'll respect it, don't really think that I should have to ask for that in return.

[jesmu84]

You guys are starting to sound like the "no one pitches complete games anymore" kind of guys.

They are