MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: wadesworld on November 23, 2019, 09:20:48 PM
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Just curious what people think about the quality of play in the college game and how the extended three point line is working.
Almost my entire life Marquette has been solid to good while the Bucks have been meh to bad. Combine that with the personal connection to Marquette and I’ve been much more of a fan of Marquette and college than I have of the NBA and the Bucks. But now things are basically reversed so I find myself watching more NBA than college basketball and won’t miss a Bucks game as long as I don’t have anything going on.
What’s really stuck out to me is how sloppy the college game is. Turnovers and missed open shots galore, even from the best teams. That first night where it was 1 vs. 2 and 3 vs. 4 I watched the first half of the Duke game and couldn’t take it. Terrible quality of play. Personally I wasn’t a fan of moving the 3 point line back. I know the idea is to create more space but I’m not certain having players miss more shots is the way to do that. These players aren’t like the pros where an open shot is just points on the board. Personally I am not finding college basketball overly entertaining, and I can’t decide if it’s just the fact that with the Bucks being good I am watching the NBA more and my standard for good basketball has changed or if the quality of the college game has actually gone down.
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I have watched more NBA/Bucks this far this season than any full season in my life. The quality of play is light years ahead of the college game. Thus far, I have not seen much to get excited over in watching the college games.
On a side note, I am thoroughly enjoying watching the Bucks this season. They are deep, talented, unselfish and have a big time coach. Barring injury, this might finally be our year. It has been long time since MKE won a crown and I am going to enjoy this ride.
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The college game is always rough at the beginning. It usually comes together by conference time and looks decent. Sometimes it looks great.
But the NBA has been light years ahead of the college game for a long time. Not only because the players are obviously much better, but because I think NBA refs understand how to manage games without disrupting flow. The college game has too many stops due to enhanced rules emphases and it just chops it up.
And you are right about the Bucks. Watching them last night after watching the Warriors in the afternoon hardly seemed like the same sport.
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I have watched more NBA/Bucks this far this season than any full season in my life. The quality of play is light years ahead of the college game. Thus far, I have not seen much to get excited over in watching the college games.
On a side note, I am thoroughly enjoying watching the Bucks this season. They are deep, talented, unselfish and have a big time coach. Barring injury, this might finally be our year. It has been long time since MKE won a crown and I am going to enjoy this ride.
Agreed on the Bucks. I actually think the Bucks were better last year, but I also think the Raptors (obviously) and 76ers were better last year too. I think the top of the East is down but the middle of the East is way up. While I think the Bucks are the best team in the East, I think the Pacers, Heat, Raptors, and Celtics are threats to go with the 76ers. I actually think it will be something other than the 76ers vs. Bucks in the ECF.
The thing that concerns me with the Bucks right now is that while they’re winning (despite 10 of their first 14 on the road) they just refuse to put teams away this year. Last year they’d get a 15 point third quarter lead and build it to 25 with 8 minutes left and both teams’ backups would play. This year they get a 15 point lead in the third and enter the fourth up by 5. I don’t know if it’s lack of focus, not caring a ton about regular season record and knowing Playoffs is all that matters, now being the “statement win” opportunity for opponents so they keep coming hard all game, or a combination of all of the above.
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The college game is always rough at the beginning. It usually comes together by conference time and looks decent. Sometimes it looks great.
But the NBA has been light years ahead of the college game for a long time. Not only because the players are obviously much better, but because I think NBA refs understand how to manage games without disrupting flow. The college game has too many stops due to enhanced rules emphases and it just chops it up.
And you are right about the Bucks. Watching them last night after watching the Warriors in the afternoon hardly seemed like the same sport.
This, at least on the skill level. I still find the lack of offense and the generous rule breaking on the court itself for NBA tiresome, but yes the ball goes into the goal a lot.
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People watch college basketball not because of the "quality of the players," but rather an affiliation or connection to a team or institution.
I actually watch very few NBA games, because they are meaningless 80% of the season, and it drives me nuts that they don't call travels, carries, and obvious fouls. Others prefer that because that means the refs "manage the game".
As an example, if the MU v. Robert Morris game had been an NBA game, none of the travels called on MU would have been called. They would have been play-ons.
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People watch college basketball not because of the "quality of the players," but rather an affiliation or connection to a team or institution.
I actually watch very few NBA games, because they are meaningless 80% of the season, and it drives me nuts that they don't call travels, carries, and obvious fouls. Others prefer that because that means the refs "manage the game".
As an example, if the MU v. Robert Morris game had been an NBA game, none of the travels called on MU would have been called. They would have been play-ons.
Well said. This
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People watch college basketball not because of the "quality of the players," but rather an affiliation or connection to a team or institution.
I actually watch very few NBA games, because they are meaningless 80% of the season, and it drives me nuts that they don't call travels, carries, and obvious fouls. Others prefer that because that means the refs "manage the game".
As an example, if the MU v. Robert Morris game had been an NBA game, none of the travels called on MU would have been called. They would have been play-ons.
Can’t really dispute any of this. It’s just about preferences.
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General state of college basketball refereeing: poor as ever
https://twitter.com/robdauster/status/1198729559052636160?s=21
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General state of college basketball refereeing: poor as ever
https://twitter.com/robdauster/status/1198729559052636160?s=21
In all honesty, in both college and the NBA. The coach should be able to call for a review of a suspected flop. If they are right, technical foul on the opposing team. If they are wrong, lose a timeout.
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In all honesty, in both college and the NBA. The coach should be able to call for a review of a suspected flop. If they are right, technical foul on the opposing team. If they are wrong, lose a timeout.
I just don’t understand how a ref can’t see that. They keep emphasize and emphasize it, yet they keep screwing up the call.
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Enjoy the college game immensely more than the NBA. Level of talent does not necessarily correlate to level of fan enjoyment. IMO, there's nothing more exciting in sports than college basketball in March.
Quality of college play is always worse in November. Team identities are still forming.
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If we could have a league where the refs called travels like they do in college and personal fouls like they do in the pros, that would be perfect in my opinion.
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I've been watching the same amount of college basketball and NBA for awhile now. IMHO, nothing changed other than the Bucks finally got good.
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Enjoy the college game immensely more than the NBA. Level of talent does not necessarily correlate to level of fan enjoyment. IMO, there's nothing more exciting in sports than college basketball in March.
Quality of college play is always worse in November. Team identities are still forming.
People need to stop making this argument IMO. March Madness is incredible. Probably my favorite sports spectacle. I'm a huge CBB fan. But college basketball is so bad in terms of quality of play for large stretches of the year. Just say you like college sports more than pros, but other than March Madness, don't claim that on a basketball level they are remotely the same level of enjoyable. As teams play to a 65-60 slog in conference play. Comparing the NBA to CBB with March Madness as the key driver for CBB is weak.
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People need to stop making this argument IMO. March Madness is incredible. Probably my favorite sports spectacle. I'm a huge CBB fan. But college basketball is so bad in terms of quality of play for large stretches of the year. Just say you like college sports more than pros, but other than March Madness, don't claim that on a basketball level they are remotely the same level of enjoyable. As teams play to a 65-60 slog in conference play. Comparing the NBA to CBB with March Madness as the key driver for CBB is weak.
So he cannot have his own opinion on what he finds more enjoyable? Uhm, ok.
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Guess you can't enjoy watching a child/loved one play a sport unless they do it at the professional level?
Enjoyment does not necessarily mean equal talent level.
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So he cannot have his own opinion on what he finds more enjoyable? Uhm, ok.
He can have whatever opinion he wants. We already know your stance which is why you quickly jumped in. Bringing in "fan enjoyment" makes it a broad reaching statement instead of a personal one. All I pointed out was using MM as a catchall for the entire season. I'd make arguments about the same if someone championed the NFL over NCAA football and said "cause the Super Bowl is such an incredible event"
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He can have whatever opinion he wants. We already know your stance which is why you quickly jumped in. Bringing in "fan enjoyment" makes it a broad reaching statement instead of a personal one. All I pointed out was using MM as a catchall for the entire season. I'd make arguments about the same if someone championed the NFL over NCAA football and said "cause the Super Bowl is such an incredible event"
I was talking about myself. As a fan, I enjoy college basketball more, regardless of talent differences. Not sure how you can possibly take issue with my opinion.
I enjoy March Madness more than the NBA Playoffs. I also find the college regular season (conference, at least), more enjoyable than the NBA regular season. Can I have that opinion?
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I have found the CBB product pretty hard to watch this season. I also just think my overall interest in CBB is down - likely because I am not overly confident in this team. I also think what happened after last season was just such a kick to the nuts, its been tough for me to be as interested.
Its kind of like March Madness. I am always nuts for it and watch basically every game the first weekend. But if Marquette loses, my interest level goes down dramatically.
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He can have whatever opinion he wants. We already know your stance which is why you quickly jumped in. Bringing in "fan enjoyment" makes it a broad reaching statement instead of a personal one. All I pointed out was using MM as a catchall for the entire season. I'd make arguments about the same if someone championed the NFL over NCAA football and said "cause the Super Bowl is such an incredible event"
You literally said "Just say you like college sports more than pros, but other than March Madness, don't claim that on a basketball level they are remotely the same level of enjoyable"
That sounds like he isn't allowed to have that opinion. So it isn't the same level of enjoyment for you. For others it is....different strokes for different folks.
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Load Management. I'm not a NBA fan to begin with, and I certainly recognize the superior talent these guys have....but things like load management, no defense, taking 4 steps (Harden), etc...I (my opinion) don't find it enjoyable at all. Even though they are elite athletes, skilled to the highest degrees in the world, I just don't find that enjoyable. Some do. To each their own.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MarriedAdoredFlee-size_restricted.gif)
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It seems like folks are talking about two different things. Any who claims that the product is better at the collegiate level (i.e. Duke/UK can beat the Knicks, Bama can beat the Dolphins) is just stupid. Feel free to call them out to your hearts content. Saying that you prefer the collegiate game for whatever reason is an opinion. Personally I hate it when you see professionals laughing on the bench in the 4th quarter of a 20 point loss. If they know that they're not going to the playoffs, all they care about is that their check arrives on time. That's something that you will never see any college player do.
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Load Management. I'm not a NBA fan to begin with, and I certainly recognize the superior talent these guys have....but things like load management, no defense, taking 4 steps (Harden), etc...I (my opinion) don't find it enjoyable at all. Even though they are elite athletes, skilled to the highest degrees in the world, I just don't find that enjoyable. Some do. To each their own.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MarriedAdoredFlee-size_restricted.gif)
When was the last time you played basketball for several hours in a day? I play once a week for 2 hours and I'm still sore the next day even though I work out pretty much every day. Part of that is certainly due to me being 36...
Now do that several times a week (or pretty much every day) over the course of something like 8 months...they need the rest even if they are some of the most elite athletes in the world.
Getting guys rest is something I don't have issue with, unless you catch a team with a star taking a night off and you have tickets to said game, but that's purely personal...the no defense thing, while it certainly happens from time to time, I think this is something that is grossly overstated, but that's just my opinion.
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Load management makes perfect sense considering how many games these guys play. And "no defense?" Anyone who still makes that argument about the NBA doesn't know what they're watching.
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When was the last time you played basketball for several hours in a day? I play once a week for 2 hours and I'm still sore the next day even though I work out pretty much every day. Part of that is certainly due to me being 36...
Now do that several times a week (or pretty much every day) over the course of something like 8 months...they need the rest even if they are some of the most elite athletes in the world.
Getting guys rest is something I don't have issue with, unless you catch a team with a star taking a night off and you have tickets to said game, but that's purely personal...the no defense thing, while it certainly happens from time to time, I think this is something that is grossly overstated, but that's just my opinion.
Yes, you are 36...I'm in my 50's. Sorry, but us old timers we used to watch guys play 82 games all the time unless injured...going all the way back to like 5 years ago. LOL.
People are paying a fortune to go watch these guys play. Between this, tanking, etc....bad taste in the mouth. The days of playing to the finish, suiting up and giving it your all regardless of score or place in the standings...different world today. Try 75% of the time and get rewarded.
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It seems like folks are talking about two different things. Any who claims that the product is better at the collegiate level (i.e. Duke/UK can beat the Knicks, Bama can beat the Dolphins) is just stupid. Feel free to call them out to your hearts content. Saying that you prefer the collegiate game for whatever reason is an opinion. Personally I hate it when you see professionals laughing on the bench in the 4th quarter of a 20 point loss. If they know that they're not going to the playoffs, all they care about is that their check arrives on time. That's something that you will never see any college player do.
Right. Because the one thing no one can do when they have a bad day at work is laugh. Must be serious. All of the time.
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I was talking about myself. As a fan, I enjoy college basketball more, regardless of talent differences. Not sure how you can possibly take issue with my opinion.
I enjoy March Madness more than the NBA Playoffs. I also find the college regular season (conference, at least), more enjoyable than the NBA regular season. Can I have that opinion?
Of course man. Like what you like. Too often college basketball fans have the same tired attacks on the NBA to the extend that they then downplay the quality of play or other things, and that I take umbrage with. You're not, its all good.
When was the last time you played basketball for several hours in a day? I play once a week for 2 hours and I'm still sore the next day even though I work out pretty much every day. Part of that is certainly due to me being 36...
Now do that several times a week (or pretty much every day) over the course of something like 8 months...they need the rest even if they are some of the most elite athletes in the world.
Getting guys rest is something I don't have issue with, unless you catch a team with a star taking a night off and you have tickets to said game, but that's purely personal...the no defense thing, while it certainly happens from time to time, I think this is something that is grossly overstated, but that's just my opinion.
Well said. And thats not factoring in the long flights and other travel. Anyone who has been on a business trip that requires multiple flights and hotels in multiple days can attest to it being exhausting, and thats not factoring in strenuous games on those days. But hey, they get paid so they should suck it up, right?
And couldn't agree more about the defense. It certainly has nothing to do with ability. Luka scored 22 in the 1Q the other day and multiple of his bombs were contested with a hand in his face. He certainly wouldn't have made those if they played defense in the NBA like college :o.
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Yes, you are 36...I'm in my 50's. Sorry, but us old timers we used to watch guys play 82 games all the time unless injured...going all the way back to like 5 years ago. LOL.
People are paying a fortune to go watch these guys play. Between this, tanking, etc....bad taste in the mouth. The days of playing to the finish, suiting up and giving it your all regardless of score or place in the standings...different world today. Try 75% of the time and get rewarded.
THIS JUST IN, SPOILED MILLENIALS HAVE NOW RUINED PROFESSIONAL SPORTS
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I'm with Chicos. Michael Jordan started all 82 games for 8 of his 14 NBA seasons. It can be done.
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Right. Because the one thing no one can do when they have a bad day at work is laugh. Must be serious. All of the time.
Really, you'd be okay with Giannis sitting on the bench laughing at the end of a bucks blowout loss? I'm not saying that you have to be serious all the time, or that the NBA guys don't care, I'm just saying that this is one element that the professional game has that the collegiate level doesn't, and that's one of the reasons why I prefer the collegiate.
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Load management makes perfect sense considering how many games these guys play. And "no defense?" Anyone who still makes that argument about the NBA doesn't know what they're watching.
LOL. What a shock you support this. Yes, when the NBA increased the games from 82 to .....uhm....82. Yes, there are so many more games now. My God. This is all about MONEY which has gotten so out of hand that they want to preserve their investment, and the players have all the power now. Screw the fans, they'll play when they damn well feel like it.
NBA defense is a joke for at least half the game. I guess Kyrie Irving and Draymond Green don't know what they are watching. LOL
"There’s no defense. There’s just none. We’re all NBA players and if you see an open look at the rim, I’m pretty sure we’re going to knock it down over 50 percent of the time if it’s wide open. More or less no defense and effort. That’s what it comes down to; nobody should be scoring that many points.”
Kyrie Irving
"We were told that. Defense isn't really an emphasis anymore in this league. So I think you're seeing it all around the league with these high scores. We know what the emphasis is."
Draymond Green
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Really, you'd be okay with Giannis sitting on the bench laughing at the end of a bucks blowout loss?
Absolutely. Giannis has shown that he is a massive competitor and a fantastic player. If he wants to yuck it up on the bench after a 20 point loss, that is fine by me. I don't think it says anything about his competitiveness.
I'm not saying that you have to be serious all the time, or that the NBA guys don't care, I'm just saying that this is one element that the professional game has that the collegiate level doesn't, and that's one of the reasons why I prefer the collegiate.
Because of meaningless end of game gestures?
Hey whatever makes you happy I guess.
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I'm with Chicos. Michael Jordan started all 82 games for 8 of his 14 NBA seasons. It can be done.
You guys are starting to sound like the "no one pitches complete games anymore" kind of guys.
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I'm with Chicos. Michael Jordan started all 82 games for 8 of his 14 NBA seasons. It can be done.
Jordan played in 80 or more games in 11 of his 15 seasons. He played 78 in another one.
In two years he played less than 20 because he was injured and out.
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Of course man. Like what you like. Too often college basketball fans have the same tired attacks on the NBA to the extend that they then downplay the quality of play or other things, and that I take umbrage with. You're not, its all good.
Well said. And thats not factoring in the long flights and other travel. Anyone who has been on a business trip that requires multiple flights and hotels in multiple days can attest to it being exhausting, and thats not factoring in strenuous games on those days. But hey, they get paid so they should suck it up, right?
And couldn't agree more about the defense. It certainly has nothing to do with ability. Luka scored 22 in the 1Q the other day and multiple of his bombs were contested with a hand in his face. He certainly wouldn't have made those if they played defense in the NBA like college :o.
The long flights? My God. They travel charter now, in the old days they flew commercial half the time. They used to travel by TRAIN! The travel is LESS now than it was even 15 years ago. No Seattle any longer, two teams in Los Angeles, only one team in Canada now. These poor guys, how do they do it with all of this travel. The long travel. LOL.
Defense...yup, I'll just ignore the players that say there is no defense...just ignore them. LOL. No different than the rules in the NFL designed to light up the score board, defense is less emphasized. It doesn't exist anymore.
“It would be very hard,” Beverley said, “to come into the league today and try to play defense like we did years ago. There is where we’re at. They want to see more scoring, more up-and-down, more points and all that, which is understandable. Of course, it makes it hard for me.”
Patrick Beverly
“Defense is not allowed. You can’t really play defense in this league. I guess that’s not what they want.”
Draymond Green
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Serious question FBM, do you think Evan Turner really cares what happens on a game to game basis. He's at the end of his career, playing for a team that isn't going to make the playoffs. He can talk about wanting to help the young guys, but he knows that he won't be around the next time the Hawks think they'll have a competitive team. He is there to cash his checks. Do you think that Matt Heldt had a similar midset his Senior year. He knew he wasn't going to be a difference maker, but he still busted his butt off every time he stepped on the court. You get equal passion from scholly 1-13 on college, you do not get that in the NBA. That makes me happy.
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Serious question FBM, do you think Evan Turner really cares what happens on a game to game basis. He's at the end of his career, playing for a team that isn't going to make the playoffs. He can talk about wanting to help the young guys, but he knows that he won't be around the next time the Hawks think they'll have a competitive team. He is there to cash his checks. Do you think that Matt Heldt had a similar midset his Senior year. He knew he wasn't going to be a difference maker, but he still busted his butt off every time he stepped on the court. You get equal passion from scholly 1-13 on college, you do not get that in the NBA. That makes me happy.
BINGO
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Jordan played in 80 or more games in 11 of his 15 seasons. He played 78 in another one.
In two years he played less than 20 because he was injured and out.
Yup. He was the ultimate competitor. I haven't really had an interest in the NBA since he left....with the exception of following and cheering for MU guys who have made it to the association. That is really the only thing I care about in the NBA.
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It's the star treatment that annoys me in the NBA. Too many videos out there of Lebron or Harden and others wayyyy over selling a non hit. Sometimes just falling when there wasn't even a motion toward them
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The long flights? My God. They travel charter now, in the old days they flew commercial half the time. They used to travel by TRAIN! The travel is LESS now than it was even 15 years ago. No Seattle any longer, two teams in Los Angeles, only one team in Canada now. These poor guys, how do they do it with all of this travel. The long travel. LOL.
Defense...yup, I'll just ignore the players that say there is no defense...just ignore them. LOL. No different than the rules in the NFL designed to light up the score board, defense is less emphasized. It doesn't exist anymore.
“It would be very hard,” Beverley said, “to come into the league today and try to play defense like we did years ago. There is where we’re at. They want to see more scoring, more up-and-down, more points and all that, which is understandable. Of course, it makes it hard for me.”
Patrick Beverly
“Defense is not allowed. You can’t really play defense in this league. I guess that’s not what they want.”
Draymond Green
You’re such a condescending simplistic jackass with your “LOL” nonsense. I know it’s your internet front cause you’d be laughed out of every boardroom if you reacted to people that disagreed with you in the same way in a business setting. It’s not a single 3 hour flight. It’s everything that goes into a gameday, plus travel and uneven sleep. Just cause Bob Cousy played 82 games and traveled by train, thus the league is exactly the same and everyone should. As if the game is remotely the same and athletics and performance hasn’t changed at all. The ability and effort is definitely the same to be an All Star now as when a behind the back dribble used to buckled guys knees and athletes smoked and drank during games. But they make millions, so they should shut up and dribble for your dollar. Extending careers and productivity and ensuring the high level of play in the playoffs cause guys aren’t injured and exhausted is for babies.
And you misinterpreted those comments so completely, but that’s par for the course for your agenda driven BS. 2 players who pride themselves and make much of their money from defense are complaining about changes in officiating that support offense, so that means defense is non existent. Ok. Cherry pick more comments made in frustration to support your nonsense that doesn’t fly with anyone but vocal NBA critics.
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Serious question FBM, do you think Evan Turner really cares what happens on a game to game basis. He's at the end of his career, playing for a team that isn't going to make the playoffs. He can talk about wanting to help the young guys, but he knows that he won't be around the next time the Hawks think they'll have a competitive team. He is there to cash his checks. Do you think that Matt Heldt had a similar midset his Senior year. He knew he wasn't going to be a difference maker, but he still busted his butt off every time he stepped on the court. You get equal passion from scholly 1-13 on college, you do not get that in the NBA. That makes me happy.
Is Evan Turner been a problem of some sort? Because I haven't heard anything. He's doing his job. Crossed over Lebron the other night, but generally doing paid for what he supposed to be doing.
Watching an amateur working hard at being an amateur isn't anything special for me. I have a rooting interest in Matt Heldt because I'm a Marquette fan. But otherwise I don't really care all that much about watching the Matt Heldt's of the the world playing college basketball.
I'd rather watch a talented player doing well at his job than a passionate run-of-the-mill guy being average at his. There's nothing special about passion.
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Is Evan Turner been a problem of some sort? Because I haven't heard anything. He's doing his job. Crossed over Lebron the other night, but generally doing paid for what he supposed to be doing.
Watching an amateur working hard at being an amateur isn't anything special for me. I have a rooting interest in Matt Heldt because I'm a Marquette fan. But otherwise I don't really care all that much about watching the Matt Heldt's of the the world playing college basketball.
I'd rather watch a talented player going about his job than a passionate run-of-the-mill guy going about his. There's nothing special about passion.
So if it's all about entertainment value, and just watching a guy do his job, why not watch the G-League. Higher scoring, more highlight material, cheaper tickets. College athletes generally play for the name on the front of the jersey, and pros play for the name on the back. Not saying that's the case 100% of the time, not saying that's wrong or that NBA players shouldn't make money, just saying that it's different, and that matters to some people.
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So if it's all about entertainment value, and just watching a guy do his job, why not watch the G-League. Higher scoring, more highlight material, cheaper tickets. College athletes generally play for the name on the front of the jersey, and pros play for the name on the back. Not saying that's the case 100% of the time, not saying that's wrong or that NBA players shouldn't make money, just saying that it's different, and that matters to some people.
Oh God. You can't be serious with that cliche. Just because they are paid doesn't mean they don't want to win, don't work hard and aren't good teammates.
And I don't watch the G-League because it's worse basketball.
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You’re such a condescending simplistic jackass with your “LOL” nonsense. I know it’s your internet front cause you’d be laughed out of every boardroom if you reacted to people that disagreed with you in the sam way in a business setting. It’s not a single 3 hour flight. It’s everything that goes into a gameday, plus travel and uneven sleep. Just cause Bob Cousy played 82 games and traveled by train, the league is exactly the same and everyone should. As if the game is remotely the same and athletics and performance hasn’t changed at all. The ability and effort is definitely the same to be an All Star now as when a behind the back dribble used to buckled guys knees and athletes smoked and drank during games. But they make millions, so they should shut up and dribble for your dollar. Extending careers and productivity and ensuring the high level of play in the playoffs cause guys aren’t injured and exhausted is for babies.
And you misinterpreted those comments so completely, but that’s par for the course for your agenda driven BS. 2 players who pride themselves and make much of their money from defense are complaining about changes in officiating that support offense, so that means defense is non existent. Ok. Cherry pick more comments made in frustration to support your nonsense that doesn’t fly with anyone but vocal NBA critics.
I’m cherry picking comments from players saying there is no defense played along with millions of observers saying / implying the same, etc? Uhm, ok. Seems strange that these NBA players are saying this, and it aligns with so many fans and non fans, but ok.
Condescending...I give what I get here. Pretty simple.
Yes, we’re all aware of how athletic people are today. Was Jordan, and others not athletic 20 years ago? Aside from smoking weed constantly, were a bunch of guys smoking with beer guts a short while ago which made the travel better then?
Don’t you also have to factor in today’s technology that allows these same tired players to scout on the plane which they couldn’t do back in the day...or get rehabilitated with therapies today that didn’t even exist 10 years ago? Doesn’t it go both ways? Come on...the travel? Just admit it...that was lame (can you say la e in today’s world?.
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Oh God. You can't be serious with that cliche. Just because they are paid doesn't mean they don't want to win, don't work hard and aren't good teammates.
Didn't say that they aren't. You could work hard and be a great teammate, but at the end of the day, for the vast majority of professional athletes, its about the number next to the dollar sign (just ask dgies his opinion about one Albert Pujols). That is why for sports that I generally don't care about, I end up rooting for the team with the best "stories" (the Blues with Pat Maroon, Laila Anderson etc), and I think a lot of people think the same way about CBB (Sister Jean).
And I don't watch the G-League because it's worse basketball.
Using what metric? CBB was ripped earlier because of the lack of scoring. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if hitting shots is a criteria for "quality" of basketball, the G-League is outperforming the NBA
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Didn't say that they aren't. You could work hard and be a great teammate, but at the end of the day, for the vast majority of professional athletes, its about the number next to the dollar sign (just ask dgies his opinion about one Albert Pujols). That is why for sports that I generally don't care about, I end up rooting for the team with the best "stories" (the Blues with Pat Maroon, Laila Anderson etc), and I think a lot of people think the same way about CBB (Sister Jean).
Of couse professionals care about getting paid. It is their job. People can get paid for their work, and still do it well and be good teammates. I'm not going to fire everyone on my staff and replace them with unpaid interns who do their job "passionately." Because they'd suck at it.
And that is why I was rooting for Michigan over Loyola because I like watching Belein teams play - and don't give a rip about Sister Jean.
Using what metric? CBB was ripped earlier because of the lack of scoring. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if hitting shots is a criteria for "quality" of basketball, the G-League is outperforming the NBA
First of all, I never said anything about scoring. But if the basis of your argument is that the G-League is better basketball then the NBA, then you probably need a better argument.
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The NBA product has gotten much better the last decade. The college product has gotten worse. I don’t care which one you like more. Personal preference doesn’t matter. You like what you like and that’s okay, who cares one way or the other?
I simply don’t see how anyone can argue college basketball is in a better place than it was in even 2000. Doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t enjoy it. But I can watch Dwyane Wade and Marquette highlights from 2003 and see it isn’t just Marquette not playing that well nowadays, none of the top teams are. Today’s game is a slog and last years Final 4 was the cherry on the top.
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Of couse professionals care about getting paid. It is their job. People can get paid for their work, and still do it well and be good teammates.
Once again, not saying that they can't, but sticking with the Evan Turner example, you offer him 10% more anywhere else in the league, and he's gone. You offer Markus a full ride at a school that costs 10% more, he's still at Marquette (part of the reason I'm on the fence about the paying college athletes thing).
I don't understand why you're trying to tell me that my opinion is wrong? I prefer watching CBB, I've given one example why, there are more. If you prefer professional that's fine, that's your opinion and I'll respect it, don't really think that I should have to ask for that in return.
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You guys are starting to sound like the "no one pitches complete games anymore" kind of guys.
They are
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Once again, not saying that they can't, but sticking with the Evan Turner example, you offer him 10% more anywhere else in the league, and he's gone. You offer Markus a full ride at a school that costs 10% more, he's still at Marquette (part of the reason I'm on the fence about the paying college athletes thing).
I don't understand why you're trying to tell me that my opinion is wrong? I prefer watching CBB, I've given one example why, there are more. If you prefer professional that's fine, that's your opinion and I'll respect it, don't really think that I should have to ask for that in return.
I never said your opinion was wrong. Most of the time I was responding to questions you asked me.
If you like college basketball, that's fine. Just don't justify it by using bad anaolgies and cliches.
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I never said your opinion was wrong. Most of the time I was responding to questions you asked me.
If you like college basketball, that's fine. Just don't justify it by using bad anaolgies and cliches.
The sarcasm used gave the implication that you thought my opinion was wrong, so even though you may never have said, "your opinion is wrong", the message was very clear.
I can justify my opinion however I want, that's the perks of having an opinion. If I said that I preferred CBB because all the jerseys looked better, that would be a perfectly acceptable way to justify an opinion.
You want other reasons why I don't like professional ball? How about the incentive to lose (across all professional sports). Who's in the Tua sweepstakes lead right now, or is it the Burrows sweepstakes now that Tua's hurt? I seem to remember Knicks fans booing their teams (few) wins because they wanted a better shot at Zion. "Trust the process" was the only thing people from Philly could say for about a 5 year stretch. Wojo and the Marquette program are not without faults, but you could never accuse them of not trying.
And I'll say again, the incentive to lose, is not anyone's fault. It's just as aspect that the professional sports world has, that the collegiate world does not have. Obviously its a bigger deal to some than to others.
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The sarcasm used gave the implication that you thought my opinion was wrong, so even though you may never have said, "your opinion is wrong", the message was very clear.
Oh GMAFB...
And I'll say again, the incentive to lose, is not anyone's fault. It's just as aspect that the professional sports world has, that the collegiate world does not have. Obviously its a bigger deal to some than to others.
My solution to that is don't base drafts on the records for the year before. It gets rid of the incentive.
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The sarcasm used gave the implication that you thought my opinion was wrong, so even though you may never have said, "your opinion is wrong", the message was very clear.
I can justify my opinion however I want, that's the perks of having an opinion. If I said that I preferred CBB because all the jerseys looked better, that would be a perfectly acceptable way to justify an opinion.
You want other reasons why I don't like professional ball? How about the incentive to lose (across all professional sports). Who's in the Tua sweepstakes lead right now, or is it the Burrows sweepstakes now that Tua's hurt? I seem to remember Knicks fans booing their teams (few) wins because they wanted a better shot at Zion. "Trust the process" was the only thing people from Philly could say for about a 5 year stretch. Wojo and the Marquette program are not without faults, but you could never accuse them of not trying.
And I'll say again, the incentive to lose, is not anyone's fault. It's just as aspect that the professional sports world has, that the collegiate world does not have. Obviously its a bigger deal to some than to others.
It'd almost be better if the pro team had U21 and U18 clubs to develop players and relaxation to take away the incentive to lose. but then that'd ruin the magic of college sports.
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It'd almost be better if the pro team had U21 and U18 clubs to develop players and relaxation to take away the incentive to lose. but then that'd ruin the magic of college sports.
It would be better for the NBA and basketball in general.
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It would be better for the NBA and basketball in general.
For the NBA yes
For basketball in general yes
For college basketball... not seeing it unless you could commit to a college after U18 if you weren't gonna get major U21 minutes.
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Oh GMAFB...
My solution to that is don't base drafts on the records for the year before. It gets rid of the incentive.
If it were that simple do you think the NBA would have done that by now?
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Again, I am a "Modified Wheel Draft" proponent. (Preferring the groups of three over ten years)
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/02/27/re-inventing-the-wheel-mike-zarren-presents-modified-nba-draft-lottery-reform-proposals/
That way teams know, within a variability of one or two places, where they are going to be drafting for the next ten years. Gives draft picks a more absolute value and disincentivizes tanking.
Similar things could easily be done in the NFL as well.
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For the NBA yes
For basketball in general yes
For college basketball... not seeing it unless you could commit to a college after U18 if you weren't gonna get major U21 minutes.
Agree 100%. It would kill the college game as we know it but there are very few coaches in today’s game that care about developing players or can develop players. I think that’s why the game is in bad shape.
There was a Badgers fan here posting about Gard “developing” players. Developing players is taking 3 and 4 stars and making them into NBA players. Jay Wright and John Beilein did that and it looks like Chris Beard could be that guy, too.
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The NBA product has gotten much better the last decade. The college product has gotten worse. I don’t care which one you like more. Personal preference doesn’t matter. You like what you like and that’s okay, who cares one way or the other?
I simply don’t see how anyone can argue college basketball is in a better place than it was in even 2000. Doesn’t mean you can’t or shouldn’t enjoy it. But I can watch Dwyane Wade and Marquette highlights from 2003 and see it isn’t just Marquette not playing that well nowadays, none of the top teams are. Today’s game is a slog and last years Final 4 was the cherry on the top.
The sooner we get the guys that don't give a crap about college basketball to play in the pros the better. The amount of turnover we have in college basketball is a big reason why teams have to "restart" each year. Massive transfers, one and dones, etc. This is why open transfers which you desire, will only make the product even worse. There used to be almost total continuity, then it became partial, open transfers will make it unwatchable...no reason for people to give one hoot about putting effort into following a team as the roster turnovers will be epic.
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Oh GMAFB...
My solution to that is don't base drafts on the records for the year before. It gets rid of the incentive.
What should drafts be based on? Doesn't modified wheel not account for things like career ending injuries, deaths, etc? Or maybe it does...asking.
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Agree 100%. It would kill the college game as we know it but there are very few coaches in today’s game that care about developing players or can develop players. I think that’s why the game is in bad shape.
There was a Badgers fan here posting about Gard “developing” players. Developing players is taking 3 and 4 stars and making them into NBA players. Jay Wright and John Beilein did that and it looks like Chris Beard could be that guy, too.
There are only so many NBA slots each year, so developing 3 and 4 star guys into NBA players is a bit of a pipe dream considering some are already there without development and slots are so limited. It also requires the kid to actually give a damn and put the work in.
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There are but two college teams I follow with any regularity -- Marquette because it's Marquette and Vanderbilt because I grew up with it.
The only time I follow pro basketball is if someone gives me a ticket and tells me to go or in the last two minutes of the NBA finals.
College is flawed. And, while the game has changed dramatically in the last 30 years or so, the flaws make it unpredictable. On any given night, the Orlando Magic is not going defeating the Golden State Warriors. But in college, we've watched Evansville take down Kentucky or Robert Morris almost take us down. We've seen UMBC take down Virginia and I do remember a certain Miami of Ohio taking down the defending national champions decades ago. That kind of stuff just won't happen in the pro game.
The NCAA tournament's first weekend is exciting because everybody who was invited (are you listening Wojo) thinks they have a shot at the title. And once in awhile, teams like Loyola of Chicago or Butler break through to the Final Four. How many time,s has an "8" seed won an NBA title? I'll bet it's NONE!
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College is flawed. And, while the game has changed dramatically in the last 30 years or so, the flaws make it unpredictable. On any given night, the Orlando Magic is not going defeating the Golden State Warriors.
The Orlando Magic beat the Golden State Warriors last season.
The NCAA tournament's first weekend is exciting because everybody who was invited (are you listening Wojo) thinks they have a shot at the title. And once in awhile, teams like Loyola of Chicago or Butler break through to the Final Four. How many time,s has an "8" seed won an NBA title? I'll bet it's NONE!
You are correct. The closest would be when the 8-seed Knicks made the Finals in 1999. And that's more due to the nature of the five and seven game series in the NBA more than anything.
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This is why open transfers which you desire, will only make the product even worse. There used to be almost total continuity, then it became partial, open transfers will make it unwatchable...no reason for people to give one hoot about putting effort into following a team as the roster turnovers will be epic.
Doomed!! College basketball would be doomed!!
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Doomed!! College basketball would be doomed!!
College basketball would be better if coaches let kids play instead of micromanaging
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College basketball would be better if coaches let kids play instead of micromanaging
No sh*t. This is one of my pet peeves about watching the college game. These damn coaches screaming on the sidelines all game.
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No sh*t. This is one of my pet peeves about watching the college game. These damn coaches screaming on the sidelines all game.
How has that changed for the worse over time? In fact, with current rules (box, less time outs, shot clock), coaches likely have less control than in Al’s time.
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How has that changed for the worse over time? In fact, with current rules (box, less time outs, shot clock), coaches likely have less control than in Al’s time.
I was just thinking the same.
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College basketball would be better if coaches let kids play instead of micromanaging
No sh*t. This is one of my pet peeves about watching the college game. These damn coaches screaming on the sidelines all game.
I tend to agree with this. But then, as soon as he doesn't "micromanage" and his team struggles, he will be accused of not doing enough.
I coach a week or three at the Hornets camp every summer, and each week is filled with games between the teams that are chosen for each age group. The camp director always tells the coaches, "Parents are watching. Coach your teams. Don't just sit there watching. They want to know you care."
Just last night, I went to see my former HS team play. The coach, a very hands-on guy who tends to "micromanage," decided not to call a timeout in the final seconds of the second OT with the team down by 1 and with the basketball in his best player's hands. They ended up getting a poor shot and losing, and I'm sure the coach is second-guessing himself (and parents are second-guessing him.)
Whether one agrees or disagrees almost doesn't matter. It's perception ... and also the fact that folks will always find a reason to beyotch about something.
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I'm with Chicos. Michael Jordan started all 82 games for 8 of his 14 NBA seasons. It can be done.
It's not a matter of whether or not it can be done. Of course it can be done.
But is it smart? Is it best for the players' ability to be at their peak performance and avoid injury? Is it best for the team's long-term success?
The science says the answer is a resounding "no."
Contrary to what the "Back in my Day Brigade" would have you believe, load management has nothing to do with how tough players are these days. It's about the data. And the data says the players perform better and are more likely to escape injury by resting more and avoiding back-to-back games.
Ultimately teams will (and should) do what's in their best interest, and that means keeping their top players healthy and at their best.
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It's not a matter of whether or not it can be done. Of course it can be done.
But is it smart? Is it best for the players' ability to be at their peak performance and avoid injury? Is it best for the team's long-term success?
The science says the answer is a resounding "no."
Contrary to what the "Back in my Day Brigade" would have you believe, load management has nothing to do with how tough players are these days. It's about the data. And the data says the players perform better and are more likely to escape injury by resting more and avoiding back-to-back games.
Ultimately teams will (and should) do what's in their best interest, and that means keeping their top players healthy and at their best.
You know how some doofus celebrates a sack when his team is down by 28 points, and one of his opponents simply responds, "Scoreboard!"
Well, folks beyotch about "load management" ... but the Raptors can just say, "Scoreboard!" As could Popovich for many years.
I do think there is a fine line, though. I certainly see giving stars a few games off, especially in back-to-back games. That is especially true of older players or of guys who have been injured.
But to give a relatively healthy, highly compensated NBA player 15+ games off "just because" ... that doesn't seem very fair to the people who buy tickets or to the networks that pay hundreds of million$ for the right to televise games.
There's got to be a middle ground.
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How has that changed for the worse over time? In fact, with current rules (box, less time outs, shot clock), coaches likely have less control than in Al’s time.
I never claimed it had changed. I was actually comparing to the pros where oftentimes the coach sits back and let's the players do their thing.
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I never claimed it had changed. I was actually comparing to the pros where oftentimes the coach sits back and let's the players do their thing.
I remember several instances of Phil Jackson filing his nails on the bench. Literally filing his nails! Cracked me up every time.
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You know how some doofus celebrates a sack when his team is down by 28 points, and one of his opponents simply responds, "Scoreboard!"
Well, folks beyotch about "load management" ... but the Raptors can just say, "Scoreboard!" As could Popovich for many years.
I do think there is a fine line, though. I certainly see giving stars a few games off, especially in back-to-back games. That is especially true of older players or of guys who have been injured.
But to give a relatively healthy, highly compensated NBA player 15+ games off "just because" ... that doesn't seem very fair to the people who buy tickets or to the networks that pay hundreds of million$ for the right to televise games.
There's got to be a middle ground.
You're right. It's not fair. And the league needs to address it by continuing to adjust the schedule.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what else can be done. Is it any more fair to tell teams "Ignore the data, weaken your chances at a title and put your best players' health at risk for the sake of this mid-December road game?"
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You're right. It's not fair. And the league needs to address it by continuing to adjust the schedule.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what else can be done. Is it any more fair to tell teams "Ignore the data, weaken your chances at a title and put your best players' health at risk for the sake of this mid-December road game?"
No sir. I don't really see a way to legislate "load management" out of the NBA.
Knowing that, however, wouldn't make me any less displeased if I paid good money to go to the Hornets-Lakers game only to find out that LeBron and AD were resting due to "load management."
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I never claimed it had changed. I was actually comparing to the pros where oftentimes the coach sits back and let's the players do their thing.
Maybe stay on the OP topic then (change of fandom over time between NCAA vs. NBA).
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No sir. I don't really see a way to legislate "load management" out of the NBA.
Knowing that, however, wouldn't make me any less displeased if I paid good money to go to the Hornets-Lakers game only to find out that LeBron and AD were resting due to "load management."
A few years ago my friend's neighbor dropped $2K for courtside tickets for a January game to see Lebron when he was with the Heat, only to have LBJ sit. Money not well spent! At least when I went to see OKC and the Thunder rested KD and Russ I could understand since it was one of the last three games of the season and playoff positions were already set.
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"Load management" is like buying front row tickets to the Beatles and getting three hours of Ringo and Pete Best drum duets
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I remember several instances of Phil Jackson filing his nails on the bench. Literally filing his nails! Cracked me up every time.
Better than Jim Boeheim picking his nose, I guess.
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Maybe stay on the OP topic then (change of fandom over time between NCAA vs. NBA).
Or maybe you could read what I meant to say. ;)
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How have we gotten this far with no one making a load management joke yet?
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How have we gotten this far with no one making a load management joke yet?
"Load management" is required when you have two dates on the same night
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How have we gotten this far with no one making a load management joke yet?
Apparently JB isn't reading the topic.
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How have we gotten this far with no one making a load management joke yet?
Rocket is doing a nasty root canel today. Hasnt been online.
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How have we gotten this far with no one making a load management joke yet?
4ever was too busy cheering on Georgia to read this thread.
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You're right. It's not fair. And the league needs to address it by continuing to adjust the schedule.
Beyond that, I'm not sure what else can be done. Is it any more fair to tell teams "Ignore the data, weaken your chances at a title and put your best players' health at risk for the sake of this mid-December road game?"
Weaken your chances? How so? How many titles were won during that era without load managing players? Plenty. When Pop started doing it at the end they won what...one title?
My solution is to schedule 8 minute games when everyone decides it’s time to play. Put up imaginary score of 120 to 120 and everyone has 4 fouls. 8-). Or how about for Joe average fan if the players don’t play, they aren’t paid and a refund given to the fan.
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SFA beating Duke last night is an example of why college basketball can be more compelling and entertaining than the NBA.
Nobody is getting excited about the Knicks beating the Bucks during a regular season game this year. It just doesn't mean anything.
But a cinderella upending a #1, who is a hated team by many, is absolutely thrilling. Still doesn't mean anything for the entire season, but there is more excitement and energy around a game like that.
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Weaken your chances? How so? How many titles were won during that era without load managing players? Plenty. When Pop started doing it at the end they won what...one title?
When your best players are injured or less than 100 percent, it weakens your chances to win.
Isn't that, you know, obvious?
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I enjoy the college game a lot more. The NBA is unquestionably better basketball
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SFA beating Duke last night is an example of why college basketball can be more compelling and entertaining than the NBA.
Nobody is getting excited about the Knicks beating the Bucks during a regular season game this year. It just doesn't mean anything.
But a cinderella upending a #1, who is a hated team by many, is absolutely thrilling. Still doesn't mean anything for the entire season, but there is more excitement and energy around a game like that.
Great argument.
Neither mean anything. But college fans will claim one is more exciting while NBA fans will claim the opposite.
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SFA beating Duke last night is an example of why college basketball can be more compelling and entertaining than the NBA.
Nobody is getting excited about the Knicks beating the Bucks during a regular season game this year. It just doesn't mean anything.
But a cinderella upending a #1, who is a hated team by many, is absolutely thrilling. Still doesn't mean anything for the entire season, but there is more excitement and energy around a game like that.
You're not wrong given these choices, but what if your choice were instead a double overtime thriller between the Bucks and Lakers or a mid January game between Oregon State and Colorado?
I think the circumstances matter way more than whether it's a college game or an NBA game.
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You're not wrong given these choices, but what if your choice were instead a double overtime thriller between the Bucks and Lakers or a mid January game between Oregon State and Colorado?
I think the circumstances matter way more than whether it's a college game or an NBA game.
Exactly.
Folks obviously are allowed to prefer college hoops to pro hoops, or vice versa, but anybody can cherry-pick games.
I like 'em both.
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When your best players are injured or less than 100 percent, it weakens your chances to win.
Isn't that, you know, obvious?
You didn't answer the question. Most teams that have won it all didn't choose load management. Even in the last decade. Throwing out the Raptors and Spurs two times does not offset all the other times it wasn't the case.
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You didn't answer the question. Most teams that have won it all didn't choose load management. Even in the last decade. Throwing out the Raptors and Spurs two times does not offset all the other times it wasn't the case.
It was a dumb question undeserving of an answer because load management wasn't widely practiced until a few years ago.
And yes, most teams who have won it in the past five years rested their key players at times during the season.
But as with everything else, you're the expert. NBA coaches, front offices, doctors, physical therapists, sports scientists and analysts all have it wrong and should set aside their silly facts and data and bow to your vastly superior knowledge on the subject to which they've dedicated their professional careers.
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You're not wrong given these choices, but what if your choice were instead a double overtime thriller between the Bucks and Lakers or a mid January game between Oregon State and Colorado?
I think the circumstances matter way more than whether it's a college game or an NBA game.
The choices were because both were a bad team beating a great. The thrill of the cinderella team is part of college. It will never be part of the NBA regular season.
The Bucks v. Lakers is like Duke v. Kansas. Both leagues have those games. The difference to me is Duke v. Kansas has some consequences. Bucks v. Lakers during regular season means largely nothing.
Oregon State v. Colorado, is honestly like your garden variety regular season NBA game. Let's say Minnesota vs. Memphis. No big excitement except for fans of the teams.
My point was the uniqueness of the cinderella game to the college basketball landscape that highlights a unique aspect of entertainment.
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The difference to me is Duke v. Kansas has some consequences.
Like what?
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It was a dumb question undeserving of an answer because load management wasn't widely practiced until a few years ago.
And yes, most teams who have won it in the past five years rested their key players at times during the season.
But as with everything else, you're the expert. NBA coaches, front offices, doctors, physical therapists, sports scientists and analysts all have it wrong and should set aside their silly facts and data and bow to your vastly superior knowledge on the subject to which they've dedicated their professional careers.
Interesting, so when coaches, GM, players etc day defense ain’t a thing in the NBA...they are wrong...but wi Th load management..they are right.
For the record, I’m not saying they are wrong on load management, I just hate it. Plenty of teams won just fine playing their studs all the time. Including the last few years...you claimed a bunch of the more recent teams that won also rested players..I guess it comes down to how much rest accounts for load management.
At any rate, fans are screwed by this. The players can handle the stress of playing and “travel”...that was awesome. They choose not to and the teams have no choice. I guarantee you some of the very GMs you speak of know quite well these guys can do it, but they don’t dare say a word because the NBA is run by the players, not the other way around.
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My point was the uniqueness of the cinderella game to the college basketball landscape that highlights a unique aspect of entertainment.
Well, when the NBA expands to 325 teams, we might just see comparable cinderella games.
I'm kidding, of course, and I'm not knocking your preference. But in this case, there's really not an apples to apples comparison.
I have no issue with people who say they prefer the college game. It's the people who think the college game is better because they try harder, etc.,who are dopey.
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Somebody forgot to tell one of the NBA's best teams that defense doesn't exist in the league and that nobody gives defensive effort.
https://www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/story/2019-10-01/clippers-defense-could-be-among-best-in-nba
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I'm just a basketball fan. I'll watch NBA, NCAA, Euro league, Aussie NBL, Chinese, Philippines, G League... anything. Rarely does a day go by when I don't watch some basketball.
What I notice:
Professional basketball at the highest level - NBA, High level Euro, NBL - is well coached, and elite coaching makes a difference.
NCAA basketball is fun to watch, but some of the teams are just horrible. I think the general skill level has eroded due to AAU getting more of the kids attention than high school ball. I think there are a few very good game coaches in the NCAA but the good game coaches end up in the professional ranks. A good game coach is a guy who finds a way to get his team 8-10 totally open looks (usually at the rim) per game which creates an instant advantage over a coach who doesn't know how to do that.
In the NCAA game, a great recruiter who couldn't organize a group of 10 year old girls to go to the same basket at the same time can some how succeed (see Calipari, John) because the skill gap is so large. In the NBA game, every single player is great so the coaching makes a difference. (Brad Stevens???)
Guys like Wojo who can recruit very well will get 20 wins per year regularly but will always lose to the random well-coached team. (south carolina) .
My solution? Quit with the one-and-dones. Let the guys go straight to the pros. The top 20 go to NBA, the next 20 to G league, the next 40 to NBL and Europe. Everyone else plays NCAA. The talent will be more even and the coaching will be more important. Recruiting will be less of an issue. In a case like this, Wojo will be out, and great game coaches will be in high demand. NCAA basketball will be even more fun to watch. We will still enjoy greatly the Eric Paschalls and Wesley Matthews who play for 4 years and then have professional careers and we will never care if the Henry Ellensons left too early because they would never come.
Either way... status quo or with changes... I'm still watching.
By the way, I'm not slamming Wojo... anyone with evidence of his great game coaching is welcome to refute... AND his recruiting skill gets MU more wins than his coaching anyway, due to the current state of things in the NCAA.