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Author Topic: A win is a win is a win is a win  (Read 44167 times)

Its DJOver

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #175 on: November 25, 2019, 08:55:37 PM »
Yea, I don't have the kind of money that Jay Bee has, but I would bet that this is a tourney team.  I still have no idea how we've gone from "this team will win a minimum of one NCAA game this season" to "this team is on the outside looking in come March", in exactly 4 games.

Eldon

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #176 on: November 25, 2019, 09:10:47 PM »
I said this in a conversation I had with my dad yesterday.  Wojo needs to find himself a Hank Raymonds, a Jerry Wainwright, a wily old Xs-and-Os guy that can strategize and gameplan.

Of course, Wojo would have to listen to that assistant.

willie warrior

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #177 on: November 25, 2019, 09:11:07 PM »
Well, I never said Fire Wojo.  Anyone who criticizes the coach gets thrown into that camp though, because it's easier to defend Wojo against that argument.

We can punt year one, but year two had the best recruit in 30 years and yet they couldn't muster a NIT bid.  Year three could've been a nice start, but then we regressed to the NIT in year four.  Last year's team was really good...until the locker room imploded.  Not a great look for someone who took until Year 5 to break into the Top 25.  Meanwhile the previous two coaches achieved much greater success with their own players at the same juncture.  Now we have a preseason first team all American senior and look like an 8-9 seed.  It's hard to get as excited about our incoming recruits when the all time leading scorer hasn't made a postseason dent.

But like I said, I don't think he should get fired.  He's gonna do enough to keep his job for a few more years at least.  But while you may be optimistic, I think we'll be having this same conversation in year seven.
But wait....what about all the raves about "Wojo has us trending upward"?
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind.

WarriorDad

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #178 on: November 25, 2019, 09:25:44 PM »
Goose-

Agreed that this is not a NCAA team, and I don't think it will be much of a debate come Selection Sunday.  If MU is a 8-9 seed, that would be Wojo's greatest achievement.

So much negativity.  When I first came to this message board two years ago there was a member here saying we would not make the NIT.  Last year members saying no NCAA after the Indiana loss.

It is November everyone.  Johnson banged up, Greg coming off an injury, McEwen did not play last year.  Let these guys play a few games. 
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MU82

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #179 on: November 25, 2019, 10:01:54 PM »
Last year members saying no NCAA after the Indiana loss.

Yeah, some of that should be must reading for those who already have decided that this team is bad.

Hell, they should just have to read the Purdue game thread during the first half.
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NorthernDancerColt

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #180 on: November 26, 2019, 01:08:01 AM »
A book or a PowerPoint presentation?
I kid I kid. I get that theres nothing he can do now but learn from it. But that's part of why he hasn't earned a full benefit of the doubt from me yet

Totally fair response. I would argue that Wojo and staff wouldn’t be getting the recruiting hauls he has (especially post-Hausergate) if kids and their folks weren’t high on where we are headed as a program.

 
Zenyatta has a lot....a lot... of ground to make up. She gets there from here she’d be a super horse......what’s this.....Zenyatta hooked to the grandstand side....Zenyatta flying on the outside....this....is...un-belieeeeeevable!...looked impossible at the top of the stretch...

1SE

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #181 on: November 26, 2019, 05:25:12 AM »
The season is young and could still turn out very nicely. That said, not a ton to be excited about at this point.

If we miss the NCAA Wojo should be gone. Full stop. Losing recruits or not, at some point you have to cut losses. 90% were expecting that from Wojo in the threshold poll.

But what I fully expect is another mediocre, slightly-below expectations season. A C+/B- season that keeps Wojo his job and gives enough fodder to the "upward trend" crowd ("2 NCAAs in a row! Progress!). The bubble will be weak, like always. Markus will go off enough to get us a few signature wins. We make the tourney in the 7-10 range and lose our first game. That will be enough for most.


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shoothoops

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #182 on: November 26, 2019, 06:25:09 AM »
The reason for the frequent turnovers and poor shooting (4 3s made) is that everyone outside of MH is simply a role/bench player. I watched the UW-UWGB game, and everyone on UW's main guys was better than MU's main guys. Really discouraging. Frankly, if it wasn't for the Dawson commitment, the chatter about Wojo would become a lot noisier.

This is why you don't evaluate anything with definitive conclusions based off of one game. Did you by chance catch the Badgers loss to Richmond last night?

rocket surgeon

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #183 on: November 26, 2019, 06:26:53 AM »
And an all-time MU great Brendan Bailey

he ain't done yet-hope he pastes this on his locker

      still not cool
don't...don't don't don't don't

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #184 on: November 26, 2019, 07:14:09 AM »
he ain't done yet-hope he pastes this on his locker

      still not cool

You do realize the difference between making light of the poster who claimed this versus ripping on the young man, right?  We all hope BB steps into the void left by the Hausers' departures but that doesn't mean the proclamation (a very "Magic-Dawson-esquese" one no less), won't and can't be critiqued.

dgies9156

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #185 on: November 26, 2019, 07:34:02 AM »
So much negativity.  When I first came to this message board two years ago there was a member here saying we would not make the NIT.  Last year members saying no NCAA after the Indiana loss.

It is November everyone.  Johnson banged up, Greg coming off an injury, McEwen did not play last year.  Let these guys play a few games.

Brother Dad, many of us have been following Warrior basketball for decades. Perhaps you have too.

We know there has been injuries. Trust me, your point has some merit. But we also this is a senior-led team and the core of the team has been together for some time. The problems they are having should not be happening.

The reason we're so down is that we're seeing the same problems that have concerned us for several years: the hero ball, the lack of meaningful contribution from too much of our line-up, the lack of defensive steals, the turnovers etc.  The Wisconsin game disgusted us. The Robert Morris game scared us.

We are angry with our coach for allowing Hausershima to happen. He should have managed his locker room more effectively. We question the quality of this coach's offense and his ability to use his center. We see a lack of in-game adjustments. We actually want our coach to succeed and while there is division between the fire Wojo crowd and the let him develop crowd, we're all afraid if it does not work out, we're all condemned to yet another rebuild. Nobody wants that, especially with what we have coming in next year.

MU82

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #186 on: November 26, 2019, 08:01:43 AM »
we're all condemned to yet another rebuild. Nobody wants that, especially with what we have coming in next year.

Do you see any scenario -- beyond some kind of criminal or seriously unethical activity -- in which Wojo is fired after this season?
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #187 on: November 26, 2019, 08:10:10 AM »
When I first came to this message board two years ago
LOL. OK, Hoopy.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

rocket surgeon

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #188 on: November 26, 2019, 08:15:23 AM »
Brother Dad, many of us have been following Warrior basketball for decades. Perhaps you have too.

We know there has been injuries. Trust me, your point has some merit. But we also this is a senior-led team and the core of the team has been together for some time. The problems they are having should not be happening.

The reason we're so down is that we're seeing the same problems that have concerned us for several years: the hero ball, the lack of meaningful contribution from too much of our line-up, the lack of defensive steals, the turnovers etc.  The Wisconsin game disgusted us. The Robert Morris game scared us.

We are angry with our coach for allowing Hausershima to happen. He should have managed his locker room more effectively. We question the quality of this coach's offense and his ability to use his center. We see a lack of in-game adjustments. We actually want our coach to succeed and while there is division between the fire Wojo crowd and the let him develop crowd, we're all afraid if it does not work out, we're all condemned to yet another rebuild. Nobody wants that, especially with what we have coming in next year.

i'm trying to give wojo every benefit of the doubt and want him to succeed very badly for obvious reasons(he wins WE WIN) but this sums up a whole bunch of threads/post very nicely
don't...don't don't don't don't

Goose

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #189 on: November 26, 2019, 08:29:42 AM »
dgies

Cheeks fully understands this and loves to rile folks up.

MU82

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #190 on: November 26, 2019, 08:33:35 AM »
dgies

Cheeks fully understands this and loves to rile folks up.

Hence the term "hoopaloopin'. Even he can't believe more than 50% of the crud he pulls out of his rectal cavity.
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CTWarrior

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #191 on: November 26, 2019, 08:57:26 AM »
Yea, I don't have the kind of money that Jay Bee has, but I would bet that this is a tourney team.  I still have no idea how we've gone from "this team will win a minimum of one NCAA game this season" to "this team is on the outside looking in come March", in exactly 4 games.
Uh, we watched them play?  I wasn't in the camp of minimum one NCAA win.  I was hoping for one NCAA win.

I have no idea what this team is going to be by the end of the year, so I personally wouldn't bet one way or the other.  We figured we'd be better on defense, worse on offense but how much of each is hard to say until you watch them play.  So far the decrease of offense is greater than the increase on defense, plus we don't appear to be as good a rebounding team.  That certainly can change, but product on the floor at this point has not been all that impressive. 

We have the trip to Europe which should have given us a leg up early, too, I would have thought.
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Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

skianth16

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #192 on: November 26, 2019, 08:57:55 AM »
We were a pouty insurrection away from experiencing it last year. Amazing how people can’t see that. It cost MU a BigEast championship.

The insurrectionists also made for a horrible matchup vs Murray State. No foot speed to defend Ja and his team.

Doesn't a lot of this blame fall on the coach, though? Shouldn't he have stepped in when he was first getting negative feedback from Joey and/or Sam? Managing the players is just as big a part of coaching as managing the X's and O's. And with the fallout from last year, it seems clear Wojo still has some work to do to improve the personnel management piece.

As far as the bad matchup against Murray State, it wasn't just Ja Morant that beat us. And Sam and Joey weren't the only ones from MU who were exploited in the gameplan. All their starters showed up that day, and we had several dud performances. The second half was just awful, and a decent amount of that blame has to fall on the coach.

1SE

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #193 on: November 26, 2019, 09:00:14 AM »
i'm trying to give wojo every benefit of the doubt and want him to succeed very badly for obvious reasons(he wins WE WIN) but this sums up a whole bunch of threads/post very nicely

Yeah, this is the camp I'm in. The UW and RM games aren't one-offs, they are just two more data points in a 5 year evaluation. I really want us to win, and I would love if Wojo is the guy to do that, but having a RM game with an all-American, a junior transfer, a redshirt-senior 3, a 22 year old sophmore 4 and a defensive beast junior center is a real head-scratcher. For years we've been hearing how "youth" and "inexperience" were the culprit - well, that certainly isn't the case now.
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MU82

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #194 on: November 26, 2019, 09:17:11 AM »
Uh, we watched them play?  I wasn't in the camp of minimum one NCAA win.  I was hoping for one NCAA win.

I have no idea what this team is going to be by the end of the year, so I personally wouldn't bet one way or the other.  We figured we'd be better on defense, worse on offense but how much of each is hard to say until you watch them play.  So far the decrease of offense is greater than the increase on defense, plus we don't appear to be as good a rebounding team.  That certainly can change, but product on the floor at this point has not been all that impressive. 

We have the trip to Europe which should have given us a leg up early, too, I would have thought.

This is a reasonable take.

It's also still very early.

Our third game last season was the beatdown at Indiana, and the 2018-19 season was all but written off by many Scoopers. Then, two games later, came the extended drought against Kansas, and many of those who were had been trying to reserve judgment piled on: Wojo's Warriors officially sucked.

And of course there was the 2012-13 reaction after the Fla and UWGB losses. Not to mention the way Lockett and Katin were constantly ripped in their early going as grad transfers.

My main concerns going into this season were offense outside of Markus, rebounding and turnovers, and all of those shortcomings have reared their ugly heads. Nevertheless, although I'm certainly not predicting a spectacular season based on what we've seen so far, I have learned not to write off an entire season based on a handful of results.

I'm trying to stay both optimistic and pragmatic.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #195 on: November 26, 2019, 09:22:42 AM »
This is a reasonable take.

It's also still very early.

Our third game last season was the beatdown at Indiana, and the 2018-19 season was all but written off by many Scoopers. Then, two games later, came the extended drought against Kansas, and many of those who were had been trying to reserve judgment piled on: Wojo's Warriors officially sucked.

And of course there was the 2012-13 reaction after the Fla and UWGB losses. Not to mention the way Lockett and Katin were constantly ripped in their early going as grad transfers.

My main concerns going into this season were offense outside of Markus, rebounding and turnovers, and all of those shortcomings have reared their ugly heads. Nevertheless, although I'm certainly not predicting a spectacular season based on what we've seen so far, I have learned not to write off an entire season based on a handful of results.

I'm trying to stay both optimistic and pragmatic.

Omg 82 you are like a broken record, yet somehow even more boring. 
Political free board, plz leave your clever quips in your clever mind.

Its DJOver

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #196 on: November 26, 2019, 09:24:04 AM »
Uh, we watched them play?  I wasn't in the camp of minimum one NCAA win.  I was hoping for one NCAA win.

I have no idea what this team is going to be by the end of the year, so I personally wouldn't bet one way or the other.  We figured we'd be better on defense, worse on offense but how much of each is hard to say until you watch them play.  So far the decrease of offense is greater than the increase on defense, plus we don't appear to be as good a rebounding team.  That certainly can change, but product on the floor at this point has not been all that impressive. 

We have the trip to Europe which should have given us a leg up early, too, I would have thought.

We've played 4 games.  We were favored to win our 3 home games, we won our 3 home games.  We were dogs in our 1 road game, we lost our 1 road game.

You want to talk individual performances?

Theo's biggest complaint all last year was that he was always in foul trouble.  He's dropped his fouls per 40 from 8 to 4.

Biggest question mark around Kobe was whether or not he could translate to high major.  He's increased his scoring, rebounding, assists, ft%, and is shooting almost 65% from 3.

One of the biggest complaints for Markus was that he always had the ball.  He's playing more off the ball this year.

BB, and Sacar have yet to show any consistency this year, but they also started last year slow too.  Greg and Jayce are both coming off injuries, and Jayce has played a grand total of 10 minutes.  How anyone can use that to draw a conclusion is baffling to me. 

Yes TOs are a problem, yes consistency from our role players has to get better, but we're exactly where all the unbiased "experts" thought we'd be, and as bad as we looked against RM, all that game will be come Selection Sunday is approximately 1/35th of our total efficiency stats, and a green W in the Q3 or Q4 column.

We way over-analyze our team, but if we were to do the same for just about any other Beast team we could find a similar amount of flaws.  It's November.  Chill.

1SE

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #197 on: November 26, 2019, 09:27:14 AM »
This is a reasonable take.

It's also still very early.

Our third game last season was the beatdown at Indiana, and the 2018-19 season was all but written off by many Scoopers. Then, two games later, came the extended drought against Kansas, and many of those who were had been trying to reserve judgment piled on: Wojo's Warriors officially sucked.

And of course there was the 2012-13 reaction after the Fla and UWGB losses. Not to mention the way Lockett and Katin were constantly ripped in their early going as grad transfers.

My main concerns going into this season were offense outside of Markus, rebounding and turnovers, and all of those shortcomings have reared their ugly heads. Nevertheless, although I'm certainly not predicting a spectacular season based on what we've seen so far, I have learned not to write off an entire season based on a handful of results.

I'm trying to stay both optimistic and pragmatic.

Yeah, last year was a real rollercoaster.

I think everyone expects there to be some bumps, especially early on, but there is a difference between bad nights (shooting off, kids with the flu, etc.)  and structural problems. I think the concern is that UW and RM might have been more the latter.

I agree there is plenty of season left and being 3-1 with a loss @UW doesn't mean the season is in flames. But I'd almost be feeling better about the season at 2-2 if it meant we had hung tough (but lost close) to both Purdue and UW but also stomped RM.
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Small Orange Soda

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Re: A win is a win is a win is a win
« Reply #198 on: November 26, 2019, 09:27:41 AM »
i'm trying to give wojo every benefit of the doubt and want him to succeed very badly for obvious reasons(he wins WE WIN) but this sums up a whole bunch of threads/post very nicely

Yup. Critics of Wojo are often framed as being in the "FIRE WOJO!" crowd or that they're rooting against him or that they never liked him because he went to Duke.  Fact is we're in Year Six and the results have been underwhelming and that's on Wojo.  That's where the dissatisfaction stems from, and it's warranted.  We all want him to do better, but the question is, can he?

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