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Author Topic: Lots of predictions from April have gone south  (Read 3614 times)

Lennys Tap

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2019, 10:04:18 AM »

Also fully agree with your last point about Wojo showing recruits "the letter." I highly, highly doubt he's doing anything like that, though, because he really does seem like a high character guy.

Agree. If (big if) there was a letter I would expect Wojo (and the Hausers) to keep it's contents confidential. The idea that it be used as a recruiting tool seems farfetched.

MU82

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2019, 10:55:03 AM »
Tower,

With all due respect (honestly, not just saying that), the statistics you cite may be correct but create a distinctly false impression. 40% of ALL D1 players transfer, 40% of our starting line up transferred. That is true. But not all transfers are created equal. Most are understandable and involve players unhappy with their minutes. When looking at our situation, the fair question isn't what % of all D1 players transfer - it's what % of 3 year starters/co MVPs transfer and what % of freshmen that play 30 minutes a game transfer? The answer is zero or almost zero, which is why it was correctly viewed as a really, really big deal/setback.

Also, in regard to the alleged letter. 1. We don't know if it exists. 2. If it does, we don't know what's in it. 3. If it does exist and Wojo is showing it to recruits he should be fired on the spot.

I don't know what would make Wojo want to show that letter to recruits. Maybe if one came right out and said, "What happened with the Hausers? I heard there was unrest," Wojo could show it to demonstrate that it was only two unhappy players and the rest of the team rallied around Markus and the coaching staff? In that case, I probably wouldn't have a problem with him showing it. It's not a state secret. That being said, I just don't think the scenario plays out, so I'm not gonna go to the mat arguing either way.

Totally agree that not all transfers are created equal. Teams have players even better than the Hausers that transfer, but mostly transfers involve players who are not established the way the Hausers were.

Joey seemingly never fully bought into being at MU. He went there because his brother was there. His defensive liabilities made it a possibility that his playing time would be reduced as a sophomore. In a vacuum, his transfer to the school he supposedly wanted to go to all along was not especially surprising or earthshaking. To me, his departure only looks really "bad" because Sam went too.

Sam is another story, one that has been discussed ad nauseum. Those who dismiss his departure as no big deal simply do not understand basketball. Having said that, continuing to pine for him (not saying you are doing that) is silly, too. He ain't walkin' back through that door.

As for whether Wojo's overall record of players transferring out has been "bad" or "troubling," I don't think so.

In my mind, the only two transfers that I wish would have been totally avoided under Wojo were Sam and Burton. We've talked about Burton ad nauseum, too; how "bad" that transfer was depends upon if one believes Burton's family issue was the main reason for it or if there was some unease about Wojo. Even then, Burton was no "worse" of a transfer than McKay or Blankson. Sam ... there really has been no equivalent leaving Marquette; maybe Robert Jackson coming to Marquette would be similar.

The rest of Wojo's transfers were guys who either were recruited over, with us getting better players, or guys who needed something Marquette couldn't offer. They were very representative of that 40% figure.

And despite all of this, Wojo has been able to continue recruiting at a very high level. So obviously, recruits (and their mommies) are not particularly concerned about guys transferring.
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

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Its DJOver

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2019, 11:07:57 AM »
Man, I can't wait until Saturday so we can just go back to complaining about the current team, and stop living in the past (for a few hours at least).

tower912

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2019, 11:34:01 AM »
Lenny, 'letter' = rumors and innuendo.    I don't think that it should be part of Wojo's pitch, but, as MU82 rightly points out, if the question is asked 'what happened to the Hausers?', how would you like to address it?     I would hope that he would give his side and let the recruit talk to the guys who stayed.   I am sure those who stayed will have a different perspective than we message board denizens.

I'm sorry, I simply don't consider the Hausers as more than just two more transfers.    MU has had players leave almost every year since 2001.    The program continues.   

And to my larger point, clearly the handwringing, gnashing of teeth, rending of garments and fists shaken at the sky of last spring was clearly misplaced in regards to future recruiting.   Whatever, however Wojo may have said about or handled the situation, if asked, clearly was enough to assuage any concerns three top 100 recruits might have. 

Now, put the pieces together and coach them up.   

And Lenny, I have nothing but the highest respect for you.    You clearly love MU hoops as much as I do and as much as most here do.   I enjoy your posts.   Just because we disagree on this issue changes nothing.   
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 12:02:04 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2019, 12:42:50 PM »
I'm sorry, I simply don't consider the Hausers as more than just two more transfers.    MU has had players leave almost every year since 2001.    The program continues.       

You know what other predictions from April have gone south?  This being a Top 10 team. And it wasn't because we lost a couple guys who couldn't break into the rotation.

skianth16

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2019, 12:55:47 PM »
I'm sorry, I simply don't consider the Hausers as more than just two more transfers.    MU has had players leave almost every year since 2001.    The program continues.   

The program will continue regardless of which players and coaches leave. We all know that. Marquette basketball is bigger than any coach or player could ever be, including the likes of Al and Markus. But to say the Hausers leaving is just par for the course, normal transfer activity is too over the top. It was a national story for a reason. 

Is Dawson Garcia just another recruit in your eyes too?

jesmu84

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2019, 01:00:29 PM »
As others have said, I think the "predictions" were those saying the departures of Hausers would lead to Wojo not being able to recruit big-time players. That's clearly proven false at this point. I don't THINK that's disputable.

wadesworld

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2019, 01:01:35 PM »
To say a Hauser situation is unheard of is just flat out wrong.  It happened literally the offseason before the Hausers left Marquette.  The Lawson brothers both left Memphis.  The difference being they were the best and second best players at Memphis, not the second best and the fourth best players like the Hausers were.

tower912

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2019, 01:19:36 PM »
The program will continue regardless of which players and coaches leave. We all know that. Marquette basketball is bigger than any coach or player could ever be, including the likes of Al and Markus. But to say the Hausers leaving is just par for the course, normal transfer activity is too over the top. It was a national story for a reason. 

Is Dawson Garcia just another recruit in your eyes too?
He is a highly ranked recruit and I am glad he chose Marquette.   I would prefer every player to stay at MU 4 years and graduate with a degree.  Statistically speaking, 2 out of Lewis, Oso, Dexter, Garcia, and Symir will transfer.    I love MU.   But I look across college basketball and try to see the big picture.    So, yeah, I view it as normal behavior.    Have since April.      And I view Garcia as a big win.     
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

willie warrior

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2019, 01:33:19 PM »
I am not sure on what predictions in April went south. Some, like me, stated that this year the team would miss Sam and Joey and likely struggle. That sure as hell could end up being the case. Many predicted a great recruiting class and it may end being one. That said, a great recruiting class should result with wins in March and that is 1.5+ years away. Hope it happens.

Please forgive anyone that is a bit skeptical of a coach with zero NCAA wins in his first five seasons. I hope this is the class that helps Wojo and program turn the corner and time will tell. Sadly, from my perspective, the corner still needs to be turned 5+ years into his tenure at MU.
Hence we need another 5 years to evaluate Wojos performance.

wadesworld

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2019, 01:48:34 PM »
For as much crap as guru takes around here, at least he's an MU fan.  Willie just comes here to whine.  Wee wittle willie whining once again.

skianth16

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2019, 01:57:26 PM »
To say a Hauser situation is unheard of is just flat out wrong.  It happened literally the offseason before the Hausers left Marquette.  The Lawson brothers both left Memphis.  The difference being they were the best and second best players at Memphis, not the second best and the fourth best players like the Hausers were.

I don't think anyone has said it's unheard of. But just because it has happened somewhere before doesn't make it sting less, at least not for some of us.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2019, 02:05:59 PM »
To say a Hauser situation is unheard of is just flat out wrong.  It happened literally the offseason before the Hausers left Marquette.  The Lawson brothers both left Memphis.  The difference being they were the best and second best players at Memphis, not the second best and the fourth best players like the Hausers were.

Almost never would allow for this extremely uncommon example. Memphis fans/administration took it in stride - after a 21-13 record the following year Tubby Smith was fired and paid a great deal of money to leave.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2019, 02:10:19 PM »
As others have said, I think the "predictions" were those saying the departures of Hausers would lead to Wojo not being able to recruit big-time players. That's clearly proven false at this point. I don't THINK that's disputable.

I don't know if there were those sort of predictions but I'm sure some people (myself included) who worried that it might hinder future recruiting. To Wojo's credit it hasn't.

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2019, 02:11:07 PM »
He is a highly ranked recruit and I am glad he chose Marquette.   I would prefer every player to stay at MU 4 years and graduate with a degree.  Statistically speaking, 2 out of Lewis, Oso, Dexter, Garcia, and Symir will transfer.    I love MU.   But I look across college basketball and try to see the big picture.    So, yeah, I view it as normal behavior.    Have since April.      And I view Garcia as a big win.   

Off the top of my head, Grimes transferred after one year as a starter at Kansas.

While the Hauser situation was obviously fairly unique and a bummer, it literally happens everywhere all the time, even with starters unhappy about something or other.

Ultimately I don't want guys who don't want to be here with ten toes in the boat with everyone rowing the same direction. Otherwise they'll possibly tank a season like the Hausers did for us last year.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2019, 02:30:58 PM »

I'm sorry, I simply don't consider the Hausers as more than just two more transfers.    MU has had players leave almost every year since 2001.    The program continues.   


Hence our disagreement. For me, if D Wade would have transferred after his sophomore year it would have been worse than the Hausers leaving. And the Hausers transferring was worse than Erik Williams leaving.

Same with recruiting. For me, Dawson Garia was a much bigger "get" (IMO) than Dexter Akanno.

I root for them equally as they're all Warriors - but some Warriors are simply more equal (valuable) than others.

Thanks for the kind words - I value your opinions even when not in total agreement.

wadesworld

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2019, 02:53:30 PM »
Almost never would allow for this extremely uncommon example. Memphis fans/administration took it in stride - after a 21-13 record the following year Tubby Smith was fired and paid a great deal of money to leave.

And basically immediately swam right into hot water with the NCAA.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #42 on: November 21, 2019, 03:02:54 PM »
And basically immediately swam right into hot water with the NCAA.

True

rocket surgeon

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #43 on: November 21, 2019, 06:04:37 PM »
  "So, in order, the goals for the program should be (1) Follow-up this year with another great recruiting class on the road to making us a blue blood; (2) WIN NOW!; and, (3) Create an attitude around our program of winning everything we touch."


      all good dog, but one thing-i think we can all agree that recruits want to hear from the coach(es) what their role will be and that they will be playing.  even if the guy's a stud, does a coach guarantee anything?  work hard, be a good student/representative of our school, put the rock in the hole, etc etc. but as a team gets filled up with 4 and 5 star guys, i've got to think it get's more difficult to recruit unless you are a kentucky, a north carolina, duke etc.   

  so this is getting to the point where good personnel and coaches have an eye for talent under the radar and/or guys with "heart" and great role fillers or even that diamond in the rough walk on.  in any event, it's a good problem to have-just win baby, eyn'a?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 06:12:12 PM by rocket surgeon »
i'll take ape tit for $200 alex

MU82

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2019, 09:53:35 PM »
Off the top of my head, Grimes transferred after one year as a starter at Kansas.

While the Hauser situation was obviously fairly unique and a bummer, it literally happens everywhere all the time, even with starters unhappy about something or other.

Ultimately I don't want guys who don't want to be here with ten toes in the boat with everyone rowing the same direction. Otherwise they'll possibly tank a season like the Hausers did for us last year.

Yep.

I want Warriors who want to be Warriors.

The Hausers mean as much to Marquette right now as Odartey Blankson does.
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

-- Martin Luther King Jr.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2019, 10:56:27 PM »
Yep.

I want Warriors who want to be Warriors.

The Hausers mean as much to Marquette right now as Odartey Blankson does.

Well, we went to the FF after ODB left, so...could lightning strike twice?

PTM

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2019, 08:25:33 AM »
Well, we went to the FF after ODB left, so...could lightning strike twice?

Would the lightning strike be multiplied then since two left?
New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2019, 09:01:55 AM »
Would the lightning strike be multiplied then since two left?

this is mathematically correct

The Lens

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2019, 09:06:52 AM »
It’s year 6 and all we’re pointing to is recruiting wins.  It’s like the Crean era all over again. Except without the Wade, Travis and Final Four part.   

Wake me when something happens.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 05:44:25 PM by The Lens »
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MU82

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2019, 09:08:52 AM »
We are humans, and therefore we suffer from recency bias. So we still have Hausers on our brains.

But seriously, the Hausers mean no more to the the 2019-20 Warriors -- and to next season's Warriors and to the following season's Warriors -- than Odartey Blankson does. They are no more likely to walk back in that door to play for us than Blankson is. And their departure has had no more of an ill effect on recruiting than Blankson's departure did.

Of course, this is one reason fan boards were invented -- so we can whine about things that are totally out of our control.

Bring back Odartey!
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

-- Martin Luther King Jr.