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Author Topic: Lots of predictions from April have gone south  (Read 3619 times)

Cheeks

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Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« on: November 20, 2019, 03:44:39 PM »
Glad to see it.

Nice job by staff bringing in best class in quite some time.
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

nyg

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 03:51:09 PM »
Give it a year.  There will be the four to five posters who say Wojo is not using him correctly, Wojo not coaching him properly and has not provided an adequate supporting cast around him.  Bank on it. 

Enjoy today, because the frontcourt of the future has signed up.  Nice job by the staff.

skianth16

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 04:12:40 PM »
Give it a year.  There will be the four to five posters who say Wojo is not using him correctly, Wojo not coaching him properly and has not provided an adequate supporting cast around him. Bank on it. 

Enjoy today, because the frontcourt of the future has signed up.  Nice job by the staff.

Nostradamus 2.0 over here, huh?

Contrary to the belief by some here, there's not a single coach in the country who doesn't get critiqued by his fanbase. Not one. Some fans will find things that just weren't good enough with K, Izzo, Few, Bennet, etc. after every single game they coach. It comes with the territory. Sometimes it's over the top nit-picking, but sometimes it's valid.

That's why it happens to Wojo as well. It probably happens more to him because his track record is not as good as the coaches mentioned above and also not as good as recent MU coaches in some respects. And from what we've seen from Wojo so far, he probably will have some games that absolutely deserve some criticism. And he'll have some games where the nit-picking is way overblown. Hopefully we get more of the latter.

tower912

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 04:44:57 PM »
The sky was never falling.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

1SE

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 04:52:57 PM »
The Sky has been falling for 5 years.

Dawson is a great get. I'm excited. But we've had high profile recruits before. Until we start winning NCAA games we might as well be recruiting guys from Pardeeville.

I don't care about potential. I care about results.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2019, 04:53:08 PM »
The sky was never falling.

Wrong!

The Skyy is falling down my throat as we speak.

PTM

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2019, 04:54:25 PM »
The Sky has been falling for 5 years.

Dawson is a great get. I'm excited. But we've had high profile recruits before. Until we start winning NCAA games we might as well be recruiting guys from Pardeeville.

I don't care about potential. I care about results.

Then technically it’s been falling for closer to 7 when Buzz gave up on Marquette Basketball.
New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

GooooMarquette

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2019, 04:56:04 PM »
The Sky has been falling for 5 years.

Dawson is a great get. I'm excited. But we've had high profile recruits before. Until we start winning NCAA games we might as well be recruiting guys from Pardeeville.

I don't care about potential. I care about results.


Yes, but the combo of recruits in next year's class is already the best we've seen since the Amigos. And Karim Mane is still in the mix....

Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2019, 04:58:24 PM »
Wrong!

The Skyy is falling down my throat as we speak.


muwarrior69

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 05:56:39 PM »

Yes, but the combo of recruits in next year's class is already the best we've seen since the Amigos. And Karim Mane is still in the mix....

These guys should have a bigger impact than the Amigos.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2019, 06:18:36 PM »
These guys should have a bigger impact than the Amigos.


Very, very possible. I just wanted to point out that it has been a long time since we have had an entire class this solid.

1SE

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2019, 08:53:10 PM »
I agree with all that and I’m excited about that but I won’t pop any celebratory champagne until we start to see the results.
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dgies9156

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2019, 08:07:12 AM »
I agree with all that and I’m excited about that but I won’t pop any celebratory champagne until we start to see the results.

Amen.

This goes a long way to Make Marquette Feared Again.

But the progress needs to start now.

We don't want buyer's remorse by Mr. Garcia based on this year's season and an inability to get meaningful offensive contributions from our front court.

We want to be in a position where this year's team is handing off the reins of a very good program with a deep run into the NCAAs over to next year's team, which has real potential.

We want to see more of the second half of the Purdue game (or even the first half of the Wisconsin game for that matter) with a team that puts 40 minutes of excellent basketball together.

Here's hoping!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 09:08:40 AM by dgies9156 »

Galway Eagle

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2019, 08:08:34 AM »

Very, very possible. I just wanted to point out that it has been a long time since we have had an entire class this solid.

Pretty sure Sam, Markus and Bailey or the 2013 and the 2010 class were on paper this solid. Not as long as going back to the Amigos.
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Freeway

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2019, 08:16:42 AM »
Amen.

This goes a long way to Make Marquette Feared Again.

But the progress needs to start now.

We don't want buyer's remorse by Mr. Garcia based on this year's season and an inability to get meaningful offensive contributions from our front court.

We want to be in a position where this year's team is handing off the reins of a very good program with a deep run into the NCAAs over to next year's team, which has real potential.

We want to see more of the second half of the Purdue game (or even the first half of the Wisconsin game for that matter) with a team that puts 60 minutes of excellent basketball together.

Here's hoping!

Quadruple overtime every game? Now that’s exciting!

Cheeks

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2019, 08:22:06 AM »
Pretty sure Sam, Markus and Bailey or the 2013 and the 2010 class were on paper this solid. Not as long as going back to the Amigos.

I’m not one that gets overly hyped about recruiting rankings since there are so many misses.  But For those that care, here are the rankings.

2016 class ranked 22nd.
2013 class ranked 7th. 
2010 class ranked 19th. 


”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

tower912

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2019, 08:50:09 AM »
There was a lot of drama in April.    However, in a macro sense, two starters transferred, like 40% of all D1 players do.     Everyone talked about the letter and rumors and innuendos.    Those cut both ways.     Wojo could portray himself as the man in charge.   If the recruits spent time with Markus and watched him play, they could wonder why anyone would NOT want to play with this guy.    If Wojo showed them copies of the letter, they could easily place blame elsewhere.    Plus, as mentioned earlier, Joey was gone.   That opened up 30+ minutes per game for a versatile forward.    It was an inconvenience bordering on a problem   It was never the end of the world.    In the wide world of college basketball and recruiting, it was not nearly as impactful as it was for scoopers. 
    Lots of people were frustrated in April.    Some have been frustrated for 6 years.   But I personally never believed for a second that Hausershima would have a negative affect on recruiting.    The only thing that could do that is rumors of Wojo being on a hot seat.   The net effect is that recruits are still hearing what Wojo is saying.   He is going after big game fish and not settling for Asian carp.   Is he going to miss?   Yep.   Nobody but the true big boys get to pick and choose. 

Now, put the pieces together.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

Goose

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2019, 08:56:06 AM »
I am not sure on what predictions in April went south. Some, like me, stated that this year the team would miss Sam and Joey and likely struggle. That sure as hell could end up being the case. Many predicted a great recruiting class and it may end being one. That said, a great recruiting class should result with wins in March and that is 1.5+ years away. Hope it happens.

Please forgive anyone that is a bit skeptical of a coach with zero NCAA wins in his first five seasons. I hope this is the class that helps Wojo and program turn the corner and time will tell. Sadly, from my perspective, the corner still needs to be turned 5+ years into his tenure at MU.

dgies9156

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2019, 09:08:15 AM »
Quadruple overtime every game? Now that’s exciting!

Damn straight -- LOL. Keep me on the edge of my seat.

Obviously my head is still in football.

40 Minutes!

-----------------------------------------------

As to Goose's comments above, we now have a recruiting class that ranks as one of the better classes in the post-McGuire era. If we gain a shooting guard to fill some of Markus' shoes, then we have in place the rumblings for something special.

Two things have to happen. The first is this year's recruiting has to be followed by next year being just as good or maybe even better. What made Coach McGuire's term special is the recruiting train never stopped and we always had "next man up." Each year also got a little better than the last.

The second is that we need to show strong progress in March. In the Big East tournament and then in the NCAAs. I'm not sure if our fan base can tolerate another Murray State wipe-out. Hint: we can't. But it's more than that. The Big East tournament is of marginal utility if the team is very good but winning it is a sign that we're disciplined and "for real." We need to win it and win it with consistency. It's a great prep for the NCAA and shows we're for real.

So, in order, the goals for the program should be (1) Follow-up this year with another great recruiting class on the road to making us a blue blood; (2) WIN NOW!; and, (3) Create an attitude around our program of winning everything we touch.

Easy to say, I know, but tough to do. But we've done it before and can do it again!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 09:18:06 AM by dgies9156 »

tower912

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2019, 09:10:28 AM »
I am not sure on what predictions in April went south. Some, like me, stated that this year the team would miss Sam and Joey and likely struggle. That sure as hell could end up being the case. Many predicted a great recruiting class and it may end being one. That said, a great recruiting class should result with wins in March and that is 1.5+ years away. Hope it happens.

Please forgive anyone that is a bit skeptical of a coach with zero NCAA wins in his first five seasons. I hope this is the class that helps Wojo and program turn the corner and time will tell. Sadly, from my perspective, the corner still needs to be turned 5+ years into his tenure at MU.

Goose, no one is happy with the post season record.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

MU82

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2019, 09:19:16 AM »
I am not sure on what predictions in April went south.

Many predicted that Hausershima would make it difficult, maybe even impossible, for Wojo to convince top recruits to come here. Negative recruiting would be easy, with rivals being able to say, "Marquette couldn't even keep two of its best players -- in-state kids, no less -- from transferring. That's because their system doesn't work, and their coaching staff can't build and maintain relationships. Come here instead!"

I didn't predict that, but I did fear there could be a major post-Hausershima recruiting hangover.

Instead, Wojo and staff have been able to get numerous top recruits to at least make visits, and they have been able to get three very good ones -- kids who were being recruited hard by the likes of Indiana, Memphis, Arizona, Stanford, Texas, Minnesota, Kansas State and UConn -- to sign on the dotted line.

So those predictions (or in my case, worries) proved to be very wrong.
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2019, 09:21:39 AM »
There was a lot of drama in April.    However, in a macro sense, two starters transferred, like 40% of all D1 players do.     Everyone talked about the letter and rumors and innuendos.    Those cut both ways.     Wojo could portray himself as the man in charge.   If the recruits spent time with Markus and watched him play, they could wonder why anyone would NOT want to play with this guy.    If Wojo showed them copies of the letter, they could easily place blame elsewhere.    Plus, as mentioned earlier, Joey was gone.   That opened up 30+ minutes per game for a versatile forward.    It was an inconvenience bordering on a problem   It was never the end of the world.    In the wide world of college basketball and recruiting, it was not nearly as impactful as it was for scoopers. 
   

Tower,

With all due respect (honestly, not just saying that), the statistics you cite may be correct but create a distinctly false impression. 40% of ALL D1 players transfer, 40% of our starting line up transferred. That is true. But not all transfers are created equal. Most are understandable and involve players unhappy with their minutes. When looking at our situation, the fair question isn't what % of all D1 players transfer - it's what % of 3 year starters/co MVPs transfer and what % of freshmen that play 30 minutes a game transfer? The answer is zero or almost zero, which is why it was correctly viewed as a really, really big deal/setback.

Also, in regard to the alleged letter. 1. We don't know if it exists. 2. If it does, we don't know what's in it. 3. If it does exist and Wojo is showing it to recruits he should be fired on the spot.

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2019, 09:39:26 AM »
I am not sure on what predictions in April went south. Some, like me, stated that this year the team would miss Sam and Joey and likely struggle. That sure as hell could end up being the case. Many predicted a great recruiting class and it may end being one. That said, a great recruiting class should result with wins in March and that is 1.5+ years away. Hope it happens.

Please forgive anyone that is a bit skeptical of a coach with zero NCAA wins in his first five seasons. I hope this is the class that helps Wojo and program turn the corner and time will tell. Sadly, from my perspective, the corner still needs to be turned 5+ years into his tenure at MU.

Well put Goose.  This isn't the first time Wojo has landed a big recruit, and I think we're all hoping for many more.  Garcia is a big win, and he deserves credit.  The results on the court, however, simply have not been there.  We've got a four year starter who's a preseason first team All American and yet we're still looking to turn that corner.  Definitely gives me pause about Wojo getting the most out of the talent on the court, regardless of recruiting rankings.

skianth16

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2019, 09:54:50 AM »
Tower,

With all due respect (honestly, not just saying that), the statistics you cite may be correct but create a distinctly false impression. 40% of ALL D1 players transfer, 40% of our starting line up transferred. That is true. But not all transfers are created equal. Most are understandable and involve players unhappy with their minutes. When looking at our situation, the fair question isn't what % of all D1 players transfer - it's what % of 3 year starters/co MVPs transfer and what % of freshmen that play 30 minutes a game transfer? The answer is zero or almost zero, which is why it was correctly viewed as a really, really big deal/setback.

Also, in regard to the alleged letter. 1. We don't know if it exists. 2. If it does, we don't know what's in it. 3. If it does exist and Wojo is showing it to recruits he should be fired on the spot.

Bingo. I think this is spot on. The way some people just hand-wave the loss of several good players in the Wojo era kind of blows my mind. I was less than pleased with Wojo's track record of transfers prior to the departure of Sam and Joey. So now, I really wonder what's going on between recruitment and transfer that keeps pushing kids out the door. Yes, transfers happen in college basketball, but I expect Wojo and MU to be better than average in all aspects of the game, including player retention.

Also fully agree with your last point about Wojo showing recruits "the letter." I highly, highly doubt he's doing anything like that, though, because he really does seem like a high character guy.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Lots of predictions from April have gone south
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2019, 10:00:58 AM »
I’m not one that gets overly hyped about recruiting rankings since there are so many misses.  But For those that care, here are the rankings.

2016 class ranked 22nd.
2013 class ranked 7th. 
2010 class ranked 19th.

I do agree with you about ratings. after the McDonald's AA a recruit is generally a toss up freshman year and his ranking is indicative about who they may turn into.

My bad I meant he 2009 class as that one had three top 100 recruits.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters