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Author Topic: Brand new season, same old Wojo.  (Read 70901 times)

Goose

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #350 on: January 02, 2020, 11:06:42 AM »
dgies

I agree with most of your posts, but have one different thought in regards to revenue. I do not believe the BOT has any fear of the fan revenue being reduced by on court performance. It appears to me that they believe fans will remain loyal provided a decent product on the court and no off court issues. In all seriousness, based off this board, most of the under 40 posters believe the program is going the right direction. While I do not know how many have tickets to the games, it seems the majority see a silver lining in every game.

As noted on here often, only the old timers that remember Al are the most frustrated. The younger guns point out this is the not the 70's or we have three Q2 wins and Kenpom has us only down two notches after a loss. For some, the end of last year and last nights performance bothers them more than it does other fans. The bar is much lower for majority of fans and MU knows it.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #351 on: January 02, 2020, 11:11:54 AM »
dgies

I agree with most of your posts, but have one different thought in regards to revenue. I do not believe the BOT has any fear of the fan revenue being reduced by on court performance. It appears to me that they believe fans will remain loyal provided a decent product on the court and no off court issues. In all seriousness, based off this board, most of the under 40 posters believe the program is going the right direction. While I do not know how many have tickets to the games, it seems the majority see a silver lining in every game.

As noted on here often, only the old timers that remember Al are the most frustrated. The younger guns point out this is the not the 70's or we have three Q2 wins and Kenpom has us only down two notches after a loss. For some, the end of last year and last nights performance bothers them more than it does other fans. The bar is much lower for majority of fans and MU knows it.


These are two completely false statements.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

MUfan12

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #352 on: January 02, 2020, 11:13:33 AM »
It appears to me that they believe fans will remain loyal provided a decent product on the court and no off court issues. In all seriousness, based off this board, most of the under 40 posters believe the program is going the right direction.

FWIW, my experience has been the opposite. I'm in the 30-40 demographic, and the vast majority of people I talk to think Wojo is out of his depth.

Goose

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #353 on: January 02, 2020, 11:21:21 AM »
MUfan 12

I stand corrected. Maybe it is just several posters that support him non stop that stick out to me. Thanks for providing me with optimism.

dinger

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #354 on: January 02, 2020, 11:29:00 AM »
FWIW, my experience has been the opposite. I'm in the 30-40 demographic, and the vast majority of people I talk to think Wojo is out of his depth.

30-40 here, as well as all my college buddies (but not for much longer  :o)
Most of my college friends honestly stopped paying much attention to MUBB, and all of them wanted Wojo gone a couple years ago. I was probably last of my group of friends on the wojo wagon.

cheebs09

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #355 on: January 02, 2020, 11:35:12 AM »
I’m in the 30-40 and definitely hear a lot of frustration from MU friends. Also, I feel like the students are pretty disengaged from the team due to lack of success based on trips to campus and talking with interns.

MUfan12

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #356 on: January 02, 2020, 12:45:23 PM »

Most of my college friends honestly stopped paying much attention to MUBB, and all of them wanted Wojo gone a couple years ago. I was probably last of my group of friends on the wojo wagon.

This is what should have MU alarmed long term. That's the group they need to donate/fill the lower bowl down the road.

I'll always keep my tickets. MU hoops has been a part of my life since I was three. But will I plunk down the scratch to upgrade? On the current trajectory, highly unlikely.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #357 on: January 02, 2020, 12:59:23 PM »
Uhm, winning that number of games is based on how good the league is.  We may have wildly different expectations, I'm not stuck in the 70's any longer and I don't believe in running a dirty program in the 2000's is proper either.

Glad you’re not “stuck in the 70s” (or late 60s) even though those were such great memories for you. Remind us - how old were you and what was your close connection to MU back then that might have precipitated you getting “stuck” in that era?

Goose

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #358 on: January 02, 2020, 01:05:59 PM »
Lenny

Cheeks is literally losing it. Plus, saw that Warrior Dad popped up on a post earlier today. He sure gets around.

Cheeks

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #359 on: January 02, 2020, 01:08:51 PM »
Glad you’re not “stuck in the 70s” (or late 60s) even though those were such great memories for you. Remind us - how old were you and what was your close connection to MU back then that might have precipitated you getting “stuck” in that era?

The world has changed, especially in college athletics.  A lot of great things used to happen to many programs.  I still think we can be really good, occasionally Final Four good.  The days of what we had in the 70's of being 2nd, 3rd or 4th best team of the decade (depending on what source one uses) I believe are gone unless someone like Al McGuire walks in.  For the same reason why I think Mark Few retiring sets them back.  Very few programs have been great long haul through multiple coaches, and low and behold most of them have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar to make sure they stayed or got back to relevance. 

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Goose

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #360 on: January 02, 2020, 01:14:39 PM »
Cheeks

You bring up the Al era more than anyone on this board. Only an idiot would believe that era could be repeated. Nova and Zags can be replicated and some here believe that and want that. This program has made little progress in 5+ years and that is a fact. I have said way too many times over the past five years that I would take a Xavier run and be happy. I firmly believe Wojo is not the right guy for this job and possibly any HC position.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #361 on: January 02, 2020, 01:17:29 PM »
Lenny

Cheeks is literally losing it. Plus, saw that Warrior Dad popped up on a post earlier today. He sure gets around.

He's definitely unhinged.  I does take a more measured tone as Billy Hoyle and Warrior Dad. 

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #362 on: January 02, 2020, 01:38:15 PM »
Uhm, winning that number of games is based on how good the league is.  We may have wildly different expectations, I'm not stuck in the 70's any longer and I don't believe in running a dirty program in the 2000's is proper either.

For the record, I was in the Bob Dukiet era.  While I am not "stuck in the 70's", I do want to avoid sliding back into the late '80s.

Wojo had show NO ability to adapt and too stubborn to bring in a more experienced coach to help smooth that out. Someone posted that Wojo could be like Majerus, maybe so, that would be great, but RM was a student of the game, always changing and adapting. Not Wojo's skill set.

Cheeks

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #363 on: January 02, 2020, 01:41:38 PM »
Cheeks

You bring up the Al era more than anyone on this board. Only an idiot would believe that era could be repeated. Nova and Zags can be replicated and some here believe that and want that. This program has made little progress in 5+ years and that is a fact. I have said way too many times over the past five years that I would take a Xavier run and be happy. I firmly believe Wojo is not the right guy for this job and possibly any HC position.

I graphically illustrated on a number of occasions it has made quite a bit of progress in five years.  The numbers don't lie.

6 years ago we were 93rd in Ken Pom
Today we are 37th.  Last year we were 33rd.  Three years ago 32nd

I don't see how that lines up with little to no improvement.  I also see our best recruiting class in a LONG time coming in next year, again don't see how that is not improvement.

As for the 70's stuff, I agree that only an idiot would believe that, but we sure have a lot our fair share of folks who bring up Al, the good old days, "know it can be done because it was done back in the day", etc....I'm sure you can understand why I respond accordingly because they do, in my opinon, seem to be stuck in a different time era.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

79Warrior

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #364 on: January 02, 2020, 01:51:33 PM »
I graphically illustrated on a number of occasions it has made quite a bit of progress in five years.  The numbers don't lie.

6 years ago we were 93rd in Ken Pom
Today we are 37th.  Last year we were 33rd.  Three years ago 32nd

I don't see how that lines up with little to no improvement.  I also see our best recruiting class in a LONG time coming in next year, again don't see how that is not improvement.

As for the 70's stuff, I agree that only an idiot would believe that, but we sure have a lot our fair share of folks who bring up Al, the good old days, "know it can be done because it was done back in the day", etc....I'm sure you can understand why I respond accordingly because they do, in my opinon, seem to be stuck in a different time era.

Actually, if you would respond less it would be appreciated.

BM1090

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #365 on: January 02, 2020, 01:53:20 PM »
For the record, I was in the Bob Dukiet era.  While I am not "stuck in the 70's", I do want to avoid sliding back into the late '80s.

Wojo had show NO ability to adapt and too stubborn to bring in a more experienced coach to help smooth that out. Someone posted that Wojo could be like Majerus, maybe so, that would be great, but RM was a student of the game, always changing and adapting. Not Wojo's skill set.

No ability to adapt? He completely overhauled the defensive scheme after two piss poor seasons and now we have been top 50 for the past two years.

I don't think anyone is thrilled with the current state of the program but it's impossible to have rational discussions when false, blanket statements are constantly thrown out.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #366 on: January 02, 2020, 01:56:49 PM »
I graphically illustrated on a number of occasions it has made quite a bit of progress in five years.  The numbers don't lie.

6 years ago we were 93rd in Ken Pom
Today we are 37th.  Last year we were 33rd.  Three years ago 32nd

I don't see how that lines up with little to no improvement.  I also see our best recruiting class in a LONG time coming in next year, again don't see how that is not improvement.

As for the 70's stuff, I agree that only an idiot would believe that, but we sure have a lot our fair share of folks who bring up Al, the good old days, "know it can be done because it was done back in the day", etc....I'm sure you can understand why I respond accordingly because they do, in my opinon, seem to be stuck in a different time era.

Why do you lie?  Next year's class is currently rated lower than the Scoop Meme "empty cupboard" class Buzz left Wojo.

And, it doesn't matter.  Wojo can't coach.  It is unlikely Markus Howard will leave MU having never won an NCAA tournament game.  And he's had some really good talent alongside him.  Doesn't matter.



MikeDeanesDarkGlasses

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #367 on: January 02, 2020, 02:11:55 PM »
No ability to adapt? He completely overhauled the defensive scheme after two piss poor seasons and now we have been top 50 for the past two years.

I don't think anyone is thrilled with the current state of the program but it's impossible to have rational discussions when false, blanket statements are constantly thrown out.
And top 50 defense has gotten us where?

Nowhere

All you have to do is watch any game to see lack of structure on defense.  Wojo has never had a system and never will.  MU, during Wojo's reign, has lacked continuity on defense.  Any shot of Markus Howard making it into the NBA were shot when he chose Wojo.  Howard lacks the defensive skills necessary to have any shot making it in the pros. 

marquette09

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #368 on: January 02, 2020, 02:24:09 PM »
This is what should have MU alarmed long term. That's the group they need to donate/fill the lower bowl down the road.

I'll always keep my tickets. MU hoops has been a part of my life since I was three. But will I plunk down the scratch to upgrade? On the current trajectory, highly unlikely.

Completely agree.  I’m in that 30-40 group.   I’ll keep my tickets, but won’t be upgrading based on this trajectory.   

BM1090

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #369 on: January 02, 2020, 03:18:35 PM »
Completely agree.  I’m in that 30-40 group.   I’ll keep my tickets, but won’t be upgrading based on this trajectory.

Not quite into that group yet but I mostly agree. I'll be sticking to my seats in the uppers.

But to be honest I'd probably keep my uppers even if MU was 30-0 every year. I like the view and I've grown to enjoy watching games from higher up.

Cheeks

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #370 on: January 02, 2020, 03:20:16 PM »
For the record, I was in the Bob Dukiet era.  While I am not "stuck in the 70's", I do want to avoid sliding back into the late '80s.

Wojo had show NO ability to adapt and too stubborn to bring in a more experienced coach to help smooth that out. Someone posted that Wojo could be like Majerus, maybe so, that would be great, but RM was a student of the game, always changing and adapting. Not Wojo's skill set.

I was in the 80's as well and we are nowhere close to slipping back to it.  Where do some people get this stuff?
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #371 on: January 02, 2020, 03:26:32 PM »
Why do you lie?  Next year's class is currently rated lower than the Scoop Meme "empty cupboard" class Buzz left Wojo.

And, it doesn't matter.  Wojo can't coach.  It is unlikely Markus Howard will leave MU having never won an NCAA tournament game.  And he's had some really good talent alongside him.  Doesn't matter.

What am I lying about?  First off, that class you are talking about with Buzz had 5 players, this class has three.  Depending on the ranking system used, some tally up points on QUANTITY and quality.  That class was ranked 9th.  It also had several guys that ended up playing mid major ball and one kid that NEVER even played at MU, but yet you are accusing me of lying?  Take out Mr. McKay and that class goes down considerably. 

The 2020 class for Wojo might not even be done yet, but yes...you go ahead and tout about who's lying when you bring that crap in here.

https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Season/2013-Basketball/Commits/    Bare Cupboard class

https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Season/2020-Basketball/Commits/    Wojo's class next year
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #372 on: January 02, 2020, 03:30:42 PM »
No ability to adapt? He completely overhauled the defensive scheme after two piss poor seasons and now we have been top 50 for the past two years.

I don't think anyone is thrilled with the current state of the program but it's impossible to have rational discussions when false, blanket statements are constantly thrown out.

By "overhauling the defensive scheme" do you mean having a few people who couldn't play defense graduate? 

And there is also the other end of the floor... 

MikeDeanesDarkGlasses

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #373 on: January 02, 2020, 03:35:54 PM »
By "overhauling the defensive scheme" do you mean having a few people who couldn't play defense graduate? 

And there is also the other end of the floor...

Matt Heldt had heart though and got the lower bowl excited when he got a hustle rebound or putback.  He was the guy every female lower bowl attendee wanted their daughter to bring home for Thanksgiving.

BM1090

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #374 on: January 02, 2020, 03:37:43 PM »
By "overhauling the defensive scheme" do you mean having a few people who couldn't play defense graduate? 

And there is also the other end of the floor...

No, I mean switching from an extended, high-pressure, man-to-man defense focused on creating turnovers to a low-pressure, man-to-man defense focused on protecting the paint and not creating turnovers. It's literally completely different.

Dr. Blackheart had a nice breakdown of it awhile back if you care to look.

 

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