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Author Topic: Brand new season, same old Wojo.  (Read 13837 times)

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #225 on: November 19, 2019, 12:23:25 PM »
In my opinion, good coaches elevate their team beyond the expected skill set. Good coaches seem to have a “magic” about them that shows when teams find ways to pull out tough games. Buzz’s teams consistently over performed their expectations, found ways to win the tough games and won when it really mattered.

Wojo’s teams seem to crumble when it matters most and have not been better than the sum of their parts.

Wojo has had few big wins (#1 Villanova tops the list) but this statement is generally accurate.

tower912

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #226 on: November 19, 2019, 12:38:32 PM »
I agree that Wojo has not yet shown himself to be a magician or alchemist.    Those are few and far between.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #227 on: November 19, 2019, 12:56:02 PM »
I agree that Wojo has not yet shown himself to be a magician or alchemist.    Those are few and far between.

Agreed. By and large, he performs to pre-season expectations. KenPom pre and (post) below

2015: 87 (93)
2016: 53 (97)
2017: 47 (32)
2018: 49 (53)
2019: 29 (33)

So:
2016 below (but prediction of no tourney with no tourney as the result)
2017 above (but prediction of no tourney with a 10 seed as the result)
The other 3 years pretty much bang on

This year we were 18 pre-season. I think we'll end up somewhere between 10 and 30, and make the tournament safely. In the wake of the Hausers bailing, I think most would take that result in a heartbeat.

Losing Sacar, Ed, and Jayce while replacing with a hypothetical of Lewis, Oso, Garcia, and Mane with Dexter coming off redshirt would unquestionably be a talent upgrade. To be honest we'd likely be ranked top 10 to start the season (barring major transfers), and finish somewhere in that range. Which would be awesome! Don't know too many who would scoff at that. Or if they did, they'd be spoiled fools.

Coaching exactly to the talent level is frustrating when the talent isn't there... the solution for that is bringing in more talent... and we're on the cusp of doing so! Fingers crossed on Garcia tomorrow.

panda

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #228 on: November 19, 2019, 02:16:31 PM »
Agreed. By and large, he performs to pre-season expectations. KenPom pre and (post) below

2015: 87 (93)
2016: 53 (97)
2017: 47 (32)
2018: 49 (53)
2019: 29 (33)

So:
2016 below (but prediction of no tourney with no tourney as the result)
2017 above (but prediction of no tourney with a 10 seed as the result)
The other 3 years pretty much bang on

This year we were 18 pre-season. I think we'll end up somewhere between 10 and 30, and make the tournament safely. In the wake of the Hausers bailing, I think most would take that result in a heartbeat.

Losing Sacar, Ed, and Jayce while replacing with a hypothetical of Lewis, Oso, Garcia, and Mane with Dexter coming off redshirt would unquestionably be a talent upgrade. To be honest we'd likely be ranked top 10 to start the season (barring major transfers), and finish somewhere in that range. Which would be awesome! Don't know too many who would scoff at that. Or if they did, they'd be spoiled fools.

Coaching exactly to the talent level is frustrating when the talent isn't there... the solution for that is bringing in more talent... and we're on the cusp of doing so! Fingers crossed on Garcia tomorrow.

Your look into the future is insanely optimistic and I hope it comes to fruition!

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #229 on: November 19, 2019, 02:29:10 PM »
Your look into the future is insanely optimistic and I hope it comes to fruition!

Ha there are certainly a couple big "ifs" embedded in there... but IF they happen I'll have a sh!t eating grin on my face til opening tipoff next year!

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #230 on: November 19, 2019, 02:36:49 PM »
In the crapshoot era, let's be on the shoot side of the tourney

panda

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #231 on: November 19, 2019, 02:41:29 PM »
In the crapshoot era, let's be on the shoot side of the tourney

Good coaches with good teams consistently win in the crapshoot. Call it random, but those guys with the "magic" I speak of show up in March.

BobWildLoyalist

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #232 on: November 19, 2019, 03:40:33 PM »
Wojo is an absolute loser, anyone who says otherwise is a woman's genital. College basketball is big business and Wojo has failed. He has all the tools and resources needed to win, and he hasn't. Plain and simple the guy is a loser and cant manage the team. Fire him.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #233 on: November 19, 2019, 03:52:56 PM »
Agreed. By and large, he performs to pre-season expectations. KenPom pre and (post) below

2015: 87 (93)
2016: 53 (97)
2017: 47 (32)
2018: 49 (53)
2019: 29 (33)

So:
2016 below (but prediction of no tourney with no tourney as the result)
2017 above (but prediction of no tourney with a 10 seed as the result)
The other 3 years pretty much bang on



Losing Sacar, Ed, and Jayce while replacing with a hypothetical of Lewis, Oso, Garcia, and Mane with Dexter coming off redshirt would unquestionably be a talent upgrade. To be honest we'd likely be ranked top 10 to start the season (barring major transfers), and finish somewhere in that range. Which would be awesome! Don't know too many who would scoff at that. Or if they did, they'd be spoiled fools.



Your hypothetical would be correct as stated but you forgot to include the loss of Markus. If we get both Garcia and Mane we'll be talented but inexperienced/young. Think Duke or Kentucky Lite. Probably top 20, not top 10. Take Mane out of the picture and we're team bubble or worse IMO.

tower912

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #234 on: November 19, 2019, 04:00:40 PM »
Wojo is an absolute loser, anyone who says otherwise is a woman's genital. College basketball is big business and Wojo has failed. He has all the tools and resources needed to win, and he hasn't. Plain and simple the guy is a loser and cant manage the team. Fire him.
Are you prepared to lose Lewis, Osa, and (theoretically) Garcia and go through the dumpster fire of another rebuild?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #235 on: November 19, 2019, 04:01:15 PM »
Your hypothetical would be correct as stated but you forgot to include the loss of Markus. If we get both Garcia and Mane we'll be talented but inexperienced/young. Think Duke or Kentucky Lite. Probably top 20, not top 10. Take Mane out of the picture and we're team bubble or worse IMO.

LOL good point pretty big oversight! I was thinking it but didn't type it.

I still think Mane would give you ~85% of Markus, especially given the size differential + NBA projection, and the other combination of guys are instant talent upgrades over the rest to make it a gain. Combine with an extra year of seasoning for the returnees and I see pre-season ~10. Hypothetically speaking, of course

Silent Verbal

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #236 on: November 19, 2019, 04:05:48 PM »
Are you prepared to lose Lewis, Osa, and (theoretically) Garcia and go through the dumpster fire of another rebuild?

Fear of losing recruits is a bad reason to keep a coach.  You can play that game every single year.

tower912

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #237 on: November 19, 2019, 04:14:42 PM »
Until they stop getting good recruits, a la Dukiet or Deane.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

Silent Verbal

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #238 on: November 19, 2019, 04:16:30 PM »
Until they stop getting good recruits, a la Dukiet or Deane.

Aside from Howard and maybe McEwen, our roster is filled with Deane-level players.  But I agree that landing Garcia would buy Wojo another year.

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #239 on: November 19, 2019, 04:19:21 PM »
Are you prepared to lose Lewis, Osa, and (theoretically) Garcia and go through the dumpster fire of another rebuild?

Some people have decided that rebuilds are incredibly hard because our coach hasn't been good at his.

panda

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #240 on: November 19, 2019, 04:21:39 PM »
Fear of losing recruits is a bad reason to keep a coach.  You can play that game every single year.

That’s an interesting point. I’d liken this to an NFL coach who continues to accumulate top draft picks but doesn’t achieve expected results. “You can’t possibly fire him because top player xyz hasn’t reached full potential.”

It’s a shortsighted solution to a long term, ongoing problem.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #241 on: November 19, 2019, 04:22:50 PM »
Are you prepared to lose Lewis, Osa, and (theoretically) Garcia and go through the dumpster fire of another rebuild?
First, I don't want Wojo fired. Second, this is a crap argument for any coach to keep his job. MU would be a sad excuse for a school if was held hostage by any recruits. MU is too smart to fall victim to keeping a coach because of some recruits. Give MU a little credit. 

willie warrior

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #242 on: November 19, 2019, 04:26:09 PM »
I agree that Wojo has not yet shown himself to be a magician or alchemist.    Those are few and far between.
What wojo is, is an average coach. MU deserves better.

BCHoopster

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #243 on: November 19, 2019, 04:26:34 PM »
That’s an interesting point. I’d liken this to an NFL coach who continues to accumulate top draft picks but doesn’t achieve expected results. “You can’t possibly fire him because top player xyz hasn’t reached full potential.”

It’s a shortsighted solution to a long term, ongoing problem.

Maybe Wojo is not the right man, then all you haters, whom do you want?  I do not think you realize how hard it is to recruit to MU.  Look at the
roster at Wisky and MU, like 1 kid from the state right now.  Does that tell you something?  Kids are not dreaming to come to either school.  Heck,
even the Badger football team at this point does not have a 4 or 5 running back, that makes less sense.  Getting potentially 3 out of state top 75 kids to me is a real breakthrough if it happens.

willie warrior

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #244 on: November 19, 2019, 04:29:07 PM »
Are you prepared to lose Lewis, Osa, and (theoretically) Garcia and go through the dumpster fire of another rebuild?
Same old same old manta excuse on wojo all the time. Keep accepting mediocrity.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #245 on: November 19, 2019, 04:39:36 PM »
Aside from Howard and maybe McEwen, our roster is filled with Deane-level players.

1. Not really

2. It doesn’t matter because Markus and Koby actually count.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Uncle Rico

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #246 on: November 19, 2019, 05:06:42 PM »
I ask this every time the talk of firing Wojo comes up.  Who is the guy you want?  Who is the guy you think they can get?  If your wish is for him to be fired, you have to have a solution other than it’s up to the administration.  I want names. 

I get the angst and anger, I do.  Roster management has been terrible.  In today’s landscape, you have to be prepared for transfers and surprise early entries.  That lands at his feet.

I agree with the cheeks on the crapshoot in March but at some point, the other  POV is correct, too, you need to win games.
Bring Brian Wardle Home

Silent Verbal

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #247 on: November 19, 2019, 05:08:16 PM »
1. Not really

2. It doesn’t matter because Markus and Koby actually count.

The guys who aren’t Howard and McEwen are Deane-level players.  You’re wrong if you think otherwise.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #248 on: November 19, 2019, 05:10:00 PM »
The guys who aren’t Howard and McEwen are Deane-level players.  You’re wrong if you think otherwise.

Jury is out on Symir and BB.  I believe Greg and Jamal will be very good players
Bring Brian Wardle Home

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #249 on: November 19, 2019, 05:31:27 PM »
1. Not really

2. It doesn’t matter because Markus and Koby actually count.

This roster has far more talent than Deane-level players.