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Author Topic: Brand new season, same old Wojo.  (Read 22604 times)

Cheeks

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #275 on: November 19, 2019, 11:13:07 PM »
You said that in SEVERAL years OTHER than year 6 we finished below expectations under Buzz. Other than year 6 means not including year 6.

So, once in those five years. One is not several. Neither would be 2. Doubling down on lies.

Oh, and in that year we slightly underachieved (9-9 vs a predicted 10-8) we went to the S16, beating a #6 and #3 team in the tournament #Mitigating
33% of the time we didn't meet those expectations...does that help?  Your claims that we met expectations in year 3 are not true.   The tournament...crapshoot.  But if you want to go there, we were "supposed" to win against Washington in the NCAA tournament...but didn't....since you don't believe in the crapshoot nature of the NCAA tournament, I guess he was just a failure that year like Wojo was in two years.  Only thing I can think of.  Fortunately for us, Davidson gagged, or it would have happened again.  That's the nature of sports.

Look, the point remains and will still remain, there are years Buzz overachieved and years he underachieved, despite the faulty memory of people here...including badly underachieving his last year.  I don't know why the human condition does that to people we are in love with, but sometimes it suppresses memories. 

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

79Warrior

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #276 on: November 20, 2019, 12:06:00 AM »
33% of the time we didn't meet those expectations...does that help?  Your claims that we met expectations in year 3 are not true.   The tournament...crapshoot.  But if you want to go there, we were "supposed" to win against Washington in the NCAA tournament...but didn't....since you don't believe in the crapshoot nature of the NCAA tournament, I guess he was just a failure that year like Wojo was in two years.  Only thing I can think of.  Fortunately for us, Davidson gagged, or it would have happened again.  That's the nature of sports.

Look, the point remains and will still remain, there are years Buzz overachieved and years he underachieved, despite the faulty memory of people here...including badly underachieving his last year.  I don't know why the human condition does that to people we are in love with, but sometimes it suppresses memories.
.

Crapshoot. Life is a crapshoot. Move on from the same drivel over and over.

Mutaman

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #277 on: November 20, 2019, 12:07:30 AM »
#lies

Several post season wins.  Big East Tournament, NIT

Christ, what an a--h---.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 12:14:37 AM by Mutaman »

The Lens

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #278 on: November 20, 2019, 12:43:01 AM »
If TJO is an option, then life changes.  He’s a proven winner and a Midwest recruiting guru.

Getting TJO = S16 on repeat
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brewcity77

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #279 on: November 20, 2019, 05:29:28 AM »
Yes, but he was not on the list given above.

That's the point. Because 3 years ago, no one would've been happy with Beard replacing Wojo on the basis of one season at UALR.

I do not want to go thru another rebuilding cycle.  Wojo came, all of Buzz's recruits left.

Rebuilds aren't fun, but if you have the wrong guy, it's better to start the rebuild than to give the wrong guy time with another class. Maybe you lose recruits, but if he ultimate success of those recruits is 2 NIT bids & 2 NCAA bids with only one win in Dayton, have you really lost anything?

The only thing you'll have lost is the time for the next guy to get things going.

willie warrior

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #280 on: November 20, 2019, 05:46:02 AM »
#No lies


Year 3, we were picked 6th and finished in a 3 way tie for 9th (positions 9 thru 11).  Not sure how that is meeting expectations.   https://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2010/10/pitt_picked_to_win_big_east_an.html

Year 6, we were picked 1st and finished 6th.  Definitely not meeting expectations.
https://www.vuhoops.com/2013/10/16/4844240/2013-big-east-basketball-media-day-polls-preseason-teams-quotes


Please note I didn't say each year, there were years we finished ahead of predictions and years we did not.  #NoLies


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nyg

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #281 on: November 20, 2019, 06:18:12 AM »
Just signed  6 kids.  So someone is buying what he is selling.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2019/nov/18/analysis-unlv-basketball-announces-2020-signees/

He's selling mid major recruits.  It's bad enough that this discussion is continuing three games into the season and Wojo is on the verge on signing a Top 30 recruit.  Comparing UNLV to MU is ridiculous.

Per 24/7 site:

MU Recruits ranks:                           UNLV Recruits ranks:

#47 (Symir, yes, I included).             #92
#22 (Garcia)                                    #215
#59 (Oso)                                        #273
#92 (Lewis)                                      # N/R
                                                        #N/R

tower912

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #282 on: November 20, 2019, 06:22:36 AM »
To be fair, early in the season under Buzz, when MU would lose a road game against a power team, and Buzz would say that he hadn't even installed the offense yet, that all the focus had been on defense, posters would rant about the defense sucking anyway, the offense being a joke, and ponder why he was mis-using his freshmen and lament the lack of 4 year players...       So, the melody is the same, just different lyrics. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #283 on: November 20, 2019, 06:40:34 AM »
33% of the time we didn't meet those expectations...does that help?  Your claims that we met expectations in year 3 are not true.   The tournament...crapshoot.  But if you want to go there, we were "supposed" to win against Washington in the NCAA tournament...but didn't....since you don't believe in the crapshoot nature of the NCAA tournament, I guess he was just a failure that year like Wojo was in two years.  Only thing I can think of.  Fortunately for us, Davidson gagged, or it would have happened again.  That's the nature of sports.

Look, the point remains and will still remain, there are years Buzz overachieved and years he underachieved, despite the faulty memory of people here...including badly underachieving his last year.  I don't know why the human condition does that to people we are in love with, but sometimes it suppresses memories.

You lied and continue lying. keep moving the goalposts, though. It's what you do whenever you're aught in a lie.

Out.

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #284 on: November 20, 2019, 07:09:15 AM »
I think the crapshoot talk has some merit for a guy like Tony Bennett, who continually underachieved in the tournament relative to his regular season success.  Wojo, on the other hand, has made the tournament twice in five years, and only once was he the favored seed.  And I wouldn't chalk up a blowout loss when your team is undergoing a locker room mutiny to "bad luck". 

Cheeks is right that the regular season matters.  Unfortunately, one single digit seed in the tourney means Wojo has very little to show there either.

You must be kidding on all those names.  Wojo is a known name to the fathers of the kids MU are recruiting, much better resume, plus to me he
has at least one assistant coach that really knows how to get involved with recruits, as he has brought in kids from the West Coast, hard to
believe.  Just think how good Stan would have been at Arizona St.  If he gets Garcia, he might be turning the corner.  Telling Mane that he has 3
top recruits coming in and a starting position for him next year, I say why not.  A line-up of Mane, McEwen, Garcia, Lewis and Theo plus a nice bench would be pretty good.  Now that is a big starting 5,  add another 6'10" kid in Osa and Smyr, looks pretty good next year and the future.

We've been hearing about how good a recruiter Wojo is since he got here and yet the results on the actual court have continued to lack. Garcia looks like a great catch and of course Wojo deserves credit for landing him.  But we also have a preseason first team All American on THIS team and yet Wojo "might be turning the corner" in year seven.  I'll say we turned a corner when we see it in our record, not just recruiting rankings.
"When you're the leader of a group or an organization, you hold your kids accountable but the main person you need to hold accountable is me."  -Wojo

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #285 on: November 20, 2019, 07:27:10 AM »
You must be kidding on all those names.  Wojo is a known name to the fathers of the kids MU are recruiting, much better resume, plus to me he
has at least one assistant coach that really knows how to get involved with recruits, as he has brought in kids from the West Coast, hard to
believe.  Just think how good Stan would have been at Arizona St.  If he gets Garcia, he might be turning the corner.  Telling Mane that he has 3
top recruits coming in and a starting position for him next year, I say why not.  A line-up of Mane, McEwen, Garcia, Lewis and Theo plus a nice bench would be pretty good.  Now that is a big starting 5,  add another 6'10" kid in Osa and Smyr, looks pretty good next year and the future.

The assumption is that Wojo leaves on his own. Not that he is fired.

And I have no idea how good Stan would be. He hasn’t exactly been a hot commodity in the coaching search circles. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

BCHoopster

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #286 on: November 20, 2019, 08:32:58 AM »
I never said Stan would be the next coach, he is just doing a good job helping Wojo get recruits.  He may or may not be the next in line, time
will tell on that.

Eldon

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #287 on: November 20, 2019, 09:07:41 AM »
The assumption is that Wojo leaves on his own. Not that he is fired.

And I have no idea how good Stan would be. He hasn’t exactly been a hot commodity in the coaching search circles.

Was Wojo for a decade and a half?

GOO

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #288 on: November 20, 2019, 09:07:58 AM »
I understand that Stan is paid really well.  Hopefully too well to make the decision to move his family for a lower D-1 head coach job that pays less.  Plus, he has to be able to afford those suits.

It seems he must be satisfied, as otherwise, his name would surface in lower D-1 job openings/interviews.  Good sign that he doesn't feel the need to run from something.  With Crean, it seemed like his assistants were looking to run from him for whatever "better" job they could get. 

Herman Cain

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #289 on: November 20, 2019, 09:14:52 AM »
He's selling mid major recruits.  It's bad enough that this discussion is continuing three games into the season and Wojo is on the verge on signing a Top 30 recruit.  Comparing UNLV to MU is ridiculous.

Per 24/7 site:

MU Recruits ranks:                           UNLV Recruits ranks:

#47 (Symir, yes, I included).             #92
#22 (Garcia)                                    #215
#59 (Oso)                                        #273
#92 (Lewis)                                      # N/R
                                                        #N/R
He is selling a mid major school. Which is actually a hard thing to do with any success . With MU resources I am confident he would be able to recruit very well.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #290 on: November 20, 2019, 09:20:08 AM »
He is selling a mid major school. Which is actually a hard thing to do with any success . With MU resources I am confident he would be able to recruit very well.

Plenty of coaches have sold UNLV with success. They're capable of getting better recruits than that.
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Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #291 on: November 20, 2019, 09:28:05 AM »
He is selling a mid major school. Which is actually a hard thing to do with any success . With MU resources I am confident he would be able to recruit very well.

Bruh. Wojo is recruiting better than any of the recent school comps you are whining about / pining after, and is aiming higher than any the individual recruits you are recently obsessing over. Very odd thing to be worried about with respect to Wojo. IMHO, of course.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #292 on: November 20, 2019, 09:46:37 AM »
Was Wojo for a decade and a half?

Yes. More than Stan.
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Pakuni

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #293 on: November 20, 2019, 10:12:15 AM »
He is selling a mid major school. Which is actually a hard thing to do with any success . With MU resources I am confident he would be able to recruit very well.

Excuses, excuses.
I can guarantee the UNLV faithful doesn't see themselves as mid-major, and will not accept that as an excuse for landing mostly kids ranked in the 200s (or unranked entirely).
Certainly Lon Kruger aimed higher at UNLV and landed multiple top 100, four-star players. Heck, Dave Rice landed a couple of top 10 classes and two more ranked in the top 25 at UNLV (one featuring our very own Katin Reinhardt).


Marcus92

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #294 on: November 20, 2019, 10:17:12 AM »
It seems he must be satisfied, as otherwise, his name would surface in lower D-1 job openings/interviews. Good sign that he doesn't feel the need to run from something. With Crean, it seemed like his assistants were looking to run from him for whatever "better" job they could get.

You never want to see good assistants leave. But it's actually a sign of a strong program if Marquette coaches are in demand elsewhere -- not a sign that they "need to run from something."
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Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #295 on: November 20, 2019, 10:34:13 AM »
You never want to see good assistants leave. But it's actually a sign of a strong program if Marquette coaches are in demand elsewhere -- not a sign that they "need to run from something."

Agree, ideally I'd like to see one of them get a HC position every 2-3 years

Keeps fresh guys coming in for opening new recruiting pipelines, and the position would be viewed favorably by young talent considering their next move as an avenue to a HC position

GOO

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #296 on: November 20, 2019, 11:35:13 AM »
You never want to see good assistants leave. But it's actually a sign of a strong program if Marquette coaches are in demand elsewhere -- not a sign that they "need to run from something."
I do get that.  C

rean seemed to have revolving doors at multiple assistant positions looking for "other opportunities" that were not clearly better positions.  Maybe I'm way off; and I'm sure all coaches are hard to work for, but we've all heard a few stories. 

I do think the assistant turnover under Crean kept him from taking MU up a level consistently and forced him to overextend himself on the recruiting side as he had to be involved as his assistants couldn't be counted on long term. 

tower912

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #297 on: November 20, 2019, 12:33:16 PM »
You never want to see good assistants leave. But it's actually a sign of a strong program if Marquette coaches are in demand elsewhere -- not a sign that they "need to run from something."

Everybody understood when Nelson left. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #298 on: November 20, 2019, 01:28:41 PM »
Buzz’s last team was picked first for the Big East and finished 6th with no NIT even.

Several other Buzz teams were picked to do one thing, but did worse...but a run in the NCAA tournament erases all apparently.

Wojo, last year predicted to finish second and we finished second.  I’ll have to go through the others.

Our memories are dulling.

Cheeks, I think I can boil this down pretty quickly.  If given a choice of:

1) an undefeated regular season and Big East Tournament Championship and a first round NCAA Tournament exit

OR

2) a 20 win season, decent run in the BE Tournament and a Sweet 16 NCAA run

I think most on here would choose #2.  NCAA games are higher profile and carry more weight in my opinion.  From a program standpoint, again IMO, they are more impactful than regular season success.  Especially so when recruits seeing the team getting to the second weekend.

If you ask which would be chosen if the pattern were to repeat over a multi-year period, I think #2 is almost a lock for a solid majority.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 01:38:50 PM by f/k/a humanlung »

f/k/a humanlung

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Re: Brand new season, same old Wojo.
« Reply #299 on: November 20, 2019, 01:36:51 PM »
Plenty of coaches have sold UNLV with success. They're capable of getting better recruits than that.

Excluding Tarkanian, who has had lasting success at UNLV?  I really can't think of anyone but I could very well be mistaken.

 

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