Upsets! / Surprise results.

[We R Final Four]

Perfectly stated, wades.

I am not "against" Otzenberger in any way. He might turn out to be the next Jay Wright. But he has proven bupkis so far. Time will tell ... and that's fine, because Wojo probably ain't goin' anywhere anytime soon.

Well, he's proven more than Wojo had prior to his hiring.

[MU82]

That's a direction I'd like Marquette to look at. Never been a NoJo, but my opinion is TJO has a higher ceiling.

Thank you for being honest and stating that it is only your opinion. I'll be honest and say that I don't really have an opinion on him either way.

Well, he's proven more than Wojo had prior to his hiring.

How has he "proven" that he is likely to be a more capable P6 coach? TJO hasn't won a single game as the coach of a P6 school, which was the exact same case for Wojo before Marquette hired him.

At least Retire0 was honest that it merely was his opinion that TJO has a higher ceiling, and his opinion might very well prove to be "right" some day.

Look, based on what I've read on Scoop so far, it feels like folks want the guy because he's from Milwaukee, because he had good success at a Summit League school, and, most importantly, because he isn't Wojo. It feels a little like "backup QB syndrome" to me.

But I haven't seen him coach a single game for a P6 team - and neither has anybody else - so I don't know whether he can be a big winner at this level or not.

Maybe Marquette or another high-major school will hire him and we'll get to see. Maybe, as some have suggested, he'll turn UNLV back into a perennial national contender and a blueblood will grab him. Maybe he'll be the next Mark Few and be happy running a great non-P6 program forever. Or maybe he'll fail at UNLV and will end up either going back to a low-major program or being an assistant coach.

The beautiful thing is that we'll all get to see rather than speculate!

[Cheeks]

Well, he's proven more than Wojo had prior to his hiring.

He has?  So if Wojo was hired at SDSU he would have done worse in the same situation?  TJ would have done better if hired after Buzz left at MU?

Hmm.  Let me know the winning lottery numbers for tomorrow's drawing before today is out...thanks.

[Pakuni]

Great history, great city, football money and pro sports growing in the city.

Mid-major conference, athletic department revenues in a freefall, stagnant/apathetic fan base and the addition of pro sports is largely a negative (no longer the only game in town).

[Uncle Rico]

I doubt TJO would be a name anyone would consider if he wasn't from the Milwaukee area

[wadesworld]

Mid-major conference, athletic department revenues in a freefall, stagnant/apathetic fan base and the addition of pro sports is largely a negative (no longer the only game in town).

Exactly.  They have the success of the 80s and early 90s on Marquette and that's about it.  So history when most of the kids who are playing in college now were toddlers at the oldest.  Beyond that and the ability to bend rules if a coach really wants to there is nothing about the job that is better than Marquette's.

When "We have a crappy football program that Marquette doesn't have" is a selling point to the job, it's not a better job than Marquette.

[NickelDimer]

He has?  So if Wojo was hired at SDSU he would have done worse in the same situation?  TJ would have done better if hired after Buzz left at MU?

Hmm.  Let me know the winning lottery numbers for tomorrow's drawing before today is out...thanks.

Remind me, what was Wojo's head coaching resume before he was hired?

[Cheeks]

Remind me, what was Wojo's head coaching resume before he was hired?

He didn't have one.  Did you understand my response?

[NickelDimer]

He didn't have one.  Did you understand my response?

Yes. It did nothing to disprove the point that TJO has proven/accomplished more than had Wojo when he was hired.

[brewcity77]

I doubt TJO would be a name anyone would consider if he wasn't from the Milwaukee area

A lot of coaches wouldn't be where they are if not for local or alumni ties. That doesn't make them worse candidates. I like the idea of someone who knows the local AAU scene and has proven they can recruit in the areas we traditionally target players.

[Uncle Rico]

A lot of coaches wouldn't be where they are if not for local or alumni ties. That doesn't make them worse candidates. I like the idea of someone who knows the local AAU scene and has proven they can recruit in the areas we traditionally target players.

I like the idea, too, but I'm saying based on his resume, he'd be a non-starter for many without the Milwaukee ties.

It shouldn't matter, anyway.  Plenty of "mid-major" coaches have ties all over the place and the staff they hire is almost as important anyway

[We R Final Four]

Thank you for being honest and stating that it is only your opinion. I'll be honest and say that I don't really have an opinion on him either way.

How has he "proven" that he is likely to be a more capable P6 coach? TJO hasn't won a single game as the coach of a P6 school, which was the exact same case for Wojo before Marquette hired him.

At least Retire0 was honest that it merely was his opinion that TJO has a higher ceiling, and his opinion might very well prove to be "right" some day.

Look, based on what I've read on Scoop so far, it feels like folks want the guy because he's from Milwaukee, because he had good success at a Summit League school, and, most importantly, because he isn't Wojo. It feels a little like "backup QB syndrome" to me.

But I haven't seen him coach a single game for a P6 team - and neither has anybody else - so I don't know whether he can be a big winner at this level or not.

Maybe Marquette or another high-major school will hire him and we'll get to see. Maybe, as some have suggested, he'll turn UNLV back into a perennial national contender and a blueblood will grab him. Maybe he'll be the next Mark Few and be happy running a great non-P6 program forever. Or maybe he'll fail at UNLV and will end up either going back to a low-major program or being an assistant coach.

The beautiful thing is that we'll all get to see rather than speculate!

Most coaches haven't coached at a P6 school before taking a job at another P6 school.
Settle down...TJO hasn't been offered anything. You certainly have your opinion of coaches who have never coached in a P6 conference.
Wojo, Crean and Buzz(not counting 1 year at UNO) went as assistants to high major coaches. Were you down all three of those unproven hires?
TJO is a HC. He is the CEO. He just beat an undefeated top 3 team. He has strong ties to the area. Like Buzz, he is well respected as a young up and coming coach.
Some would like to see him succeed at a P6 and THEN MU can go get him.
Too late. We have been a stepping stone job for our last several hires.
MU hasn't gone the route of waiting for an experienced HC from a P6 to come available. Maybe they will in the future..

[We R Final Four]

He has?  So if Wojo was hired at SDSU he would have done worse in the same situation?  TJ would have done better if hired after Buzz left at MU?

Hmm.  Let me know the winning lottery numbers for tomorrow's drawing before today is out...thanks.

Wojo was an assistant coach prior to coming to MU. Overall record as a HC of 0-0.
TJO has been a successful HC (CEO).
Wojo didn't go to SDST.

[Pakuni]

Wojo was an assistant coach prior to coming to MU. Overall record as a HC of 0-0.
TJO has been a successful HC (CEO).
Wojo didn't go to SDST.

In high school?
GTFO.

[MU82]

Most coaches haven't coached at a P6 school before taking a job at another P6 school.
Settle down...TJO hasn't been offered anything. You certainly have your opinion of coaches who have never coached in a P6 conference.
Wojo, Crean and Buzz(not counting 1 year at UNO) went as assistants to high major coaches. Were you down all three of those unproven hires?
TJO is a HC. He is the CEO. He just beat an undefeated top 3 team. He has strong ties to the area. Like Buzz, he is well respected as a young up and coming coach.
Some would like to see him succeed at a P6 and THEN MU can go get him.
Too late. We have been a stepping stone job for our last several hires.
MU hasn't gone the route of waiting for an experienced HC from a P6 to come available. Maybe they will in the future..

I never once said -- or even suggested -- I was "down" on TJO. If Wojo were fired right now and TJO hired to replace him, me being an optimist, I would be high on TJO, just as I was high on Wojo, Buzz and Crean.

All I said is that he hasn't accomplished anything at a high-major level. That is true. It was true of Wojo, too. Those are what we call "facts."

Wojo beat the No. 1 team in the nation in 2017. According to many here, that was a "fart in the wind." And maybe they're not wrong about it, but it happened. And it didn't automatically make him a great coach -- just as UNLV's win over San Diego State didn't make TJO's team more than the 15-14, non-NCAA tournament team it is.

I mean, Wojo has beaten K-State 2 straight years, including on the road this season; TJO lost to K-State at home this season. Therefore, ipso fatso, does that "prove" that Wojo is significantly better than TJO -- who also lost at home to Texas State, Pacific at Nevado-Reno, among others? I certainly wouldn't argue it proves anything.

You're trying too hard to "prove" TJO is better or more accomplished than Wojo, but the fact is that we don't know if he's better, and he isn't any more accomplished.

Wojo is about to make the NCAA tournament for the 3rd time in 4 years while coaching in one of the best conferences in the land. When TJO accomplishes anything like that, let the rest of us know.

And again, I am not "down" on him. He might be the next great coach, and 10 years from now I might say, "Wow, I sure wish Marquette had him."

That doesn't change the current facts, though.

[We R Final Four]

I understand you want a sure thing(a proven, successful HC in a P6 conference) as MU's next coach.....if and when that happens. MU and most every other D1 school disagrees with you as evidence by their hires.
Izzo, Crean, Coach K, Knight, Wojo, Ryan, Buzz, and hundreds other coaches etc. etc. had little if any HEAD coaching experience, much less P6 coaching experience.  That seems like an priveleged request, since it has never happened here before.MU has been a school that gives the hot assistant coach the job, not a retread.
Im sure we could get a rebound coach that has been fired from a P6 conference and satisfy your coaching search requirement.

[brewcity77]

I like the idea, too, but I'm saying based on his resume, he'd be a non-starter for many without the Milwaukee ties.

It shouldn't matter, anyway.  Plenty of "mid-major" coaches have ties all over the place and the staff they hire is almost as important anyway

I don't know about that. I've advocated for Wes Miller and John Becker who don't have local ties or NCAA wins. I think if you can prove you are better than your peers, you probably deserve a shot at the next level. TJO did that at SDSU. Being local is a bonus on the kind of resume I already prize.

[JWags85]

I don't know about that. I've advocated for Wes Miller and John Becker who don't have local ties or NCAA wins. I think if you can prove you are better than your peers, you probably deserve a shot at the next level. TJO did that at SDSU. Being local is a bonus on the kind of resume I already prize.

Big fan of Wes Miller and frankly shocked he hasn't gotten a look higher up yet, maybe cause he hasn't won a tourney game honestly.  UNCG was a dumpster fire when he took over and he turned them around immediately and they have another tough team.  Stuck right with Kansas at Allen, beat GTown, won on the road at a solid Vermont team, and 2 of their 3 losses in conference are to ETSU who arguably would get an at large if they lose in the conference tourney and who have the only other potentially more interesting HC for bigger jobs in the conference.

I would think he would may be in play for Wake when Manning inevitably gets canned and maybe GTech cause I think Pastner is also toast.

Becker is a good coach, but he's on the wrong side of 50 in addition to never even being an assistant in a good league, IMO.  He was a D3 coach until he came to Vermont.

[rocket surgeon]

a real dog fight at MSU  if the izzo boys lose this one, i'm getting the orville redenbacher's ready-where do i find MSU scoop?

[MU82]

I understand you want a sure thing(a proven, successful HC in a P6 conference) as MU's next coach.....if and when that happens. MU and most every other D1 school disagrees with you as evidence by their hires.
Izzo, Crean, Coach K, Knight, Wojo, Ryan, Buzz, and hundreds other coaches etc. etc. had little if any HEAD coaching experience, much less P6 coaching experience.  That seems like an priveleged request, since it has never happened here before.MU has been a school that gives the hot assistant coach the job, not a retread.
Im sure we could get a rebound coach that has been fired from a P6 conference and satisfy your coaching search requirement.

Sigh.

I have never advocated for what your claims keep representing.

Indeed, I have said that Marquette has NEVER hired anybody other than an up-and-coming assistant or a mid-major (or lower) coach with potential, so anybody expecting something else next time is delusional. There are some (not "many," as I overzealously claimed earlier) who think proven P6 coaches will leave their current good situations to come to Marquette. You and I both agree that's highly unlikely to happen.

There is a reason that just about every Marquette fan I know, including a vast majority of Scoopers, were giddy when it appeared a successful mid-major coach was going to come to Marquette: Mrs. Shaka's husband appeared to be far and away the best catch from our decades-long control group.

[We R Final Four]

Haha...can't keep away from Your boy Shaka. 6 years later.

[rocket surgeon]

the vermin beat another ranked team on the road?  say what you want but i'd give my left one if wojo could deliver some of these for us.  then, at least ya know they have it in them.   

[Oldgym]

the vermin beat another ranked team on the road?  say what you want but i'd give my left one if wojo could deliver some of these for us.  then, at least ya know they have it in them.

Yes.  I hate it, but I respect them.  One of this board's maddening seasonal rituals is to write off a mediocre Bucky team in late January only to try figuring out how they're headed for a 3 or 4 seed in the Big Ten by late February.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

#21 Colorado loses by 14 on the road to Cal, currently ranked #179 in KenPom. Now that's a loss that can make you lose some ground on the s-curve

[We R Final Four]

Yes.  I hate it, but I respect them.  One of this board's maddening seasonal rituals is to write off a mediocre Bucky team in late January only to try figuring out how they're headed for a 3 or 4 seed in the Big Ten by late February.

Really? That's maddening to you?
I hate Bucky. I know exactly how they do it. I'm no longer trying to figure it out. We've all seen this movie.
unnatural carnal knowledge those whiteys.