OT Memphis

[Cheeks]

Yes. Because the NCAA has no business declaring who should be academically eligible to play.

According to MU82 and his constant UNC academic retort...he disagrees...will you two please get on the same page like you normally are.

[Cheeks]

Hypothetical.  If i gave my neighbor $500 because he needed it to pay his mortgage, and his five year old kid grows up becomming a top 100 basketball player, should he be disallowed to go to Marquette based on the fact that I am a "booster" since I have made donations to the University in the past?  Even if they total less than $500?

Hmm

Try this one

I am a Memphis alum, gave a star high school recruit ready for college enrollment in 18 months $11500 ( not $500 ) to move to the city I live in and would love for kid to go to my alma mater, even though I haven't been named coach yet....though my name has already surfaced as a consideration to become Memphis head coach.

[wadesworld]

Hypothetical.  If i gave my neighbor $500 because he needed it to pay his mortgage, and his five year old kid grows up becomming a top 100 basketball player, should he be disallowed to go to Marquette based on the fact that I am a "booster" since I have made donations to the University in the past?  Even if they total less than $500?

That's an apples to elephants comparison.

Penny is the most recognizable Memphis booster in the world. He played basketball for the program. Wiseman was already the top recruit in the country. Penny was paying him to move, not to stay in one place. And he was paying him to move so that he could coach him in basketball, not because he couldn't afford his mortgage.

[Billy Hoyle]

Hypothetical.  If i gave my neighbor $500 because he needed it to pay his mortgage, and his five year old kid grows up becomming a top 100 basketball player, should he be disallowed to go to Marquette based on the fact that I am a "booster" since I have made donations to the University in the past?  Even if they total less than $500?

Since the kid is not a recruitable prospect at the time there is nothing wrong with this scenario and the kid's eligibility would not be affected.

Time for you to throw in the towel on this one and leave it to those who actually know.

[Cheeks]

Hypothetical.  If i gave my neighbor $500 because he needed it to pay his mortgage, and his five year old kid grows up becomming a top 100 basketball player, should he be disallowed to go to Marquette based on the fact that I am a "booster" since I have made donations to the University in the past?  Even if they total less than $500?

[MU82]

This graphic carries significant weight, given that it was posted by one of Scoop's leading Red Herring Specialists.

And yes, hoopy, I actually agree with you on this one.

[The Sultan]

That's an apples to elephants comparison.

Penny is the most recognizable Memphis booster in the world. He played basketball for the program. Wiseman was already the top recruit in the country. Penny was paying him to move, not to stay in one place. And he was paying him to move so that he could coach him in basketball, not because he couldn't afford his mortgage.

The point is that "rules are rules" is rarely the case. Always room for discretion.

[Cheeks]

The point is that "rules are rules" is rarely the case. Always room for discretion.

And the rules state a 5 year old kid isn't a recruit able athlete

[Nukem2]

The point is that "rules are rules" is rarely the case. Always room for discretion.

For the few exceptional cases, discretion can and should be exercised.  The case for Wiseman is hardly an exception.  In fact, it's a classic example of not following the rules as noted by others.

[Billy Hoyle]

And the rules state a 5 year old kid isn't a recruit able athlete

FBM is like the Dismembered Knight at this point. Comically sad now.

What's next, his bringing up a stripper Penny tipped in Orlando potentially having a 5 star recruit?

[lawdog77]

In my opinion, his eligibilty is going to come down to what information was known before the first decision was made, and what new information came out afterwards. If the NCAA previously knew that Penny gave the parents the 11500 to move them to Memphis there may be some sort of double jeopardy.

[Lennys Tap]

In my opinion, his eligibilty is going to come down to what information was known before the first decision was made, and what new information came out afterwards. If the NCAA previously knew that Penny gave the parents the 11500 to move them to Memphis there may be some sort of double jeopardy.

Double jeopardy? What is this, a murder trial?

[source?]

Double jeopardy? What is this, a murder trial?

If the exchange of cash happened in a national park it could be a federal case depending.

[lawdog77]

Double jeopardy? What is this, a murder trial?

was trying to use laymans terms. Also.known as res judicata

[The Sultan]

FBM is like the Dismembered Knight at this point. Comically sad now.

What's next, his bringing up a stripper Penny tipped in Orlando potentially having a 5 star recruit?

Hardly.  I am bringing up a point that you apparently cannot comprehend.

"Rules are rules" isn't applicable.  Every smart organization allows discretion for how rules are enforced.  My example was intentionally absurd to show that, if we establish that the rule wouldn't be enforced given my circumstances, than it doesn't have to be enforced here.  So using my ability to intelligently look at the situation, here is why I think he should retain eligibility.

**Penney was a booster largely based off a single gift made 11 years ago.  (Not a regular booster which would be an obvious violation.)
**Penney was not Memphis coach at the time.  He wasn't associated with the school in any official capacity.  (If he were a head or assistant coach at the time, no brainer.)
**The gift to the family was not predicated on him attending the University of Memphis. (Again, no brainer if it were dependent on his attendance.)

So stop acting like this is a black and white, open and shut case.  It isn't.

[Cheeks]

Hardly.  I am bringing up a point that you apparently cannot comprehend.

"Rules are rules" isn't applicable.  Every smart organization allows discretion for how rules are enforced.  My example was intentionally absurd to show that, if we establish that the rule wouldn't be enforced given my circumstances, than it doesn't have to be enforced here.  So using my ability to intelligently look at the situation, here is why I think he should retain eligibility.

**Penney was a booster off a single gift made 11 years ago.  (Not a regular booster which would be an obvious violation.)
**Penney was not Memphis coach at the time.  He wasn't associated with the school in any official capacity.  (If he were a head or assistant coach at the time, no brainer.)
**The gift to the family was not predicated on him attending the University of Memphis. (Again, no brainer if it were dependent on his attendance.)

So stop acting like this is a black and white, open and shut case.  It isn't.

Do you realize the massive hole you are creating....wasn't involved in the school in any "official capacity".  This is why rules are created, because of that example right there.  What you are describing is a bagman...someone without any official capacity either,


Meanwhile, Penny was highly visible at games, events,etc, with the school for a number of years. Describe official.  He was rumored as a replacement DURING the time of this episode.

[rocket surgeon]

Hardly.  I am bringing up a point that you apparently cannot comprehend.

"Rules are rules" isn't applicable.  Every smart organization allows discretion for how rules are enforced.  My example was intentionally absurd to show that, if we establish that the rule wouldn't be enforced given my circumstances, than it doesn't have to be enforced here.  So using my ability to intelligently look at the situation, here is why I think he should retain eligibility.

**Penney was a booster off a single gift made 11 years ago.  (Not a regular booster which would be an obvious violation.)
**Penney was not Memphis coach at the time.  He wasn't associated with the school in any official capacity.  (If he were a head or assistant coach at the time, no brainer.)
**The gift to the family was not predicated on him attending the University of Memphis. (Again, no brainer if it were dependent on his attendance.)

So stop acting like this is a black and white, open and shut case.  It isn't.

"any OFFICIAL" capacity is correct, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows penny is DA MAN at memphis whether or not he's on their payroll.  i wish discretion were used more often in this world, but the problem is, especially with the ncaa, their applications of their rules seem insufficiently discretionary.  they carpet bomb the "little guys" while whistling the other way on the "big dogs"  following the money seems to unfortunately be the smell test

[The Sultan]

"any OFFICIAL" capacity is correct, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows penny is DA MAN at memphis whether or not he's on their payroll.  i wish discretion were used more often in this world, but the problem is, especially with the ncaa, their applications of their rules seem insufficiently discretionary.  they carpet bomb the "little guys" while whistling the other way on the "big dogs"  following the money seems to unfortunately be the smell test

I think the problem is that you are using your 2019 vision to view something as worse than it really was.  The transaction occurred a couple years ago. 

[Nukem2]

Do you realize the massive hole you are creating....wasn't involved in the school in any "official capacity".  This is why rules are created, because of that example right there.  What you are describing is a bagman...someone without any official capacity either,


Meanwhile, Penny was highly visible at games, events,etc, with the school for a number of years. Describe official.  He was rumored as a replacement DURING the time of this episode.

Don't confuse the Fluffy Sultan with facts.  They just get in the way.

[Cheeks]

In March of 2017 the Memphis Commercial Appeal (their fish wrap) was publicly writing articles Tubby Smith should add Penny Hardaway to the staff as an assistant coach to get recruiting up to snuff.  There were multiple articles about staff changes that had Penny's name as a target of speculation....why....because of what he meant to the school and the local area.   Again, describe "official".

[Jay Bee]

**Penney was a booster off a single gift made 11 years ago.  (Not a regular booster which would be an obvious violation.)

This is patently false. You don't know what a booster is. Please stop with the lies.

[lawdog77]

This is patently false. You don't know what a booster is. Please stop with the lies.

Agreed. That is why I don't understand how Wiseman was eligible in the first place.

[Jay Bee]

Agreed. That is why I don't understand how Wiseman was eligible in the first place.

The story from Memphis is probably untrue. I've dealt with their compliance folks on an issue, and they were either complete idiots or slimy to a high degree.

[Uncle Rico]

Free James Wiseman

[The Sultan]

This is patently false. You don't know what a booster is. Please stop with the lies.

I know exactly what a booster is.  You fail to comprehend my point, and I can't really help you there.