The NBA and China

[tower912]

Noted.   Opinion respected.   I am not going to pretend that there isn't wisdom there.

[real chili 83]

Soooooo damned easy.

IN BEFORE THE LOCK

ND sucks

[JWags85]

Heres where I'll disagree with you. The Chinese government, Chinese state media, and the Nets owner all put out statements that essentially were the Chinese version of shut up and dribble. I support the players league not shutting up but it at minimum cheapens their principles and stance if they choose to not shut up and dribble when it is economically convenient to do so.

I 100% support people staying out of the HK debate but this has become a larger issue of freedom of expression and what does it say to people when you abandon your principles for economic expediency?

I think it's more than shut up and dribble. It's "you're not allowed to have opinions contrary to ours". The "stick to sports" crowd doesn't want athletes talking social/political at all, and get more vocal when someone speaks out differently than they think. China would be perfectly happy if Morey was tweeting pro-China sentiment.

[mu03eng]

I think it's more than shut up and dribble. It's "you're not allowed to have opinions contrary to ours". The "stick to sports" crowd doesn't want athletes talking social/political at all, and get more vocal when someone speaks out differently than they think. China would be perfectly happy if Morey was tweeting pro-China sentiment.

Read the quotes again, especially from the Nets owner.....he is saying if you aren't Chinese you can't understand and it is an untouchable topic for you. That is stick to sports. And maybe I misunderstood you point but I'm not sure that shut up unless you become a propagandist is a more acceptable position than shut up and dribble

[JWags85]

Read the quotes again, especially from the Nets owner.....he is saying if you aren't Chinese you can't understand and it is an untouchable topic for you. That is stick to sports. And maybe I misunderstood you point but I'm not sure that shut up unless you become a propagandist is a more acceptable position than shut up and dribble

First of all, it's definitely not any better or more acceptable. Just pointing out the difference in the Chinese mindset about it compared to the shut up and dribble mindset here.

And I've read his comments multiple times. To me it reads like everyone else outside of their control pretty much thinks China is over the top and out of bounds, so the response is "you're not Chinese, you can't understand and here's why and that's why we're justified doing whatever we want".  It's similar to someone disagreeing with you and hitting you with with "you're not intelligent/worldly/experienced enough to understand".  If you sided with them, then it wouldn't matter if you weren't Chinese, they'd happily use you to further their message and goals.

[mu03eng]

First of all, it's definitely not any better or more acceptable. Just pointing out the difference in the Chinese mindset about it compared to the shut up and dribble mindset here.

And I've read his comments multiple times. To me it reads like everyone else outside of their control pretty much thinks China is over the top and out of bounds, so the response is "you're not Chinese, you can't understand and here's why and that's why we're justified doing whatever we want".  It's similar to someone disagreeing with you and hitting you with with "you're not intelligent/worldly/experienced enough to understand".  If you sided with them, then it wouldn't matter if you weren't Chinese, they'd happily use you to further their message and goals.

Yeah I just think it's a distinction without a difference.....pretty sure if Kaepernick were kneeling for police that Trump and his flock would be cool with it too

[Lennys Tap]

Heres where I'll disagree with you. The Chinese government, Chinese state media, and the Nets owner all put out statements that essentially were the Chinese version of shut up and dribble. I support the players league not shutting up but it at minimum cheapens their principles and stance if they choose to not shut up and dribble when it is economically convenient to do so.

I 100% support people staying out of the HK debate but this has become a larger issue of freedom of expression and what does it say to people when you abandon your principles for economic expediency?

+1. IMHO there's nothing terribly heroic in taking a stand on a controversial issue in a free society that's pretty much split down the middle. CK was out (or at least on his way out) of football, now he's the very well paid face of Nike. Lebron publicly hating everything Trump probably helps his image among most NBA fans. Adam Silver is all about free speech for his players - except re China. Taking even a small stand against the devil when he'll stop paying you over it - that's where they all draw the line. It's all about the Benjamins.

[Cheeks]

You can make parallel arguments about many countries.  Russia.  Saufi Arabia.  India.   And so many things can upset these international relations.

I am a big believer in the notion that I can't change everything. It is damn near impossible to get through a day without purchasing a product that somewhere in the supply chain involves a country or corporation that pisses me off in some way.   So I pick my fights.   It is highly unlikely I can change a foreign country.   But maybe, just maybe, enough people can make this country better.   You may fail.  But it is better to strive and fail than to do or say nothing.

In other words, LeBron can't fix China.   But maybe he can use his celebrity to convince a few people to do something in America.   And if enough try, maybe, eventually, they can succeed a little.

It's the hypocrisy part people struggle with.  The same reason why people are so turned off by celebs abs talking heads preaching about climate or something else, but doing the exact opposite.  No doubt the power of their voice they think they can do something, and their egos certainly confirm it, but they shouldn't be surprised when people ask them to walk the walk.

[Jockey]

+1. IMHO there's nothing terribly heroic in taking a stand on a controversial issue in a free society that's pretty much split down the middle. CK was out (or at least on his way out) of football, now he's the very well paid face of Nike. Lebron publicly hating everything Trump probably helps his image among most NBA fans. Adam Silver is all about free speech for his players - except re China. Taking even a small stand against the devil when he'll stop paying you over it - that's where they all draw the line. It's all about the Benjamins.

Agree.

Freedom and decency are tough sells these days.

[muwarrior69]

The NBA is no bull in a China shop!

[forgetful]

You can make parallel arguments about many countries.  Russia.  Saufi Arabia.  India.   And so many things can upset these international relations.

I am a big believer in the notion that I can't change everything. It is damn near impossible to get through a day without purchasing a product that somewhere in the supply chain involves a country or corporation that pisses me off in some way.   So I pick my fights.   It is highly unlikely I can change a foreign country.   But maybe, just maybe, enough people can make this country better.   You may fail.  But it is better to strive and fail than to do or say nothing.

In other words, LeBron can't fix China.   But maybe he can use his celebrity to convince a few people to do something in America.   And if enough try, maybe, eventually, they can succeed a little.

Superb post in an absolute dumpster fire of a thread.

[mu03eng]

Superb post in an absolute dumpster fire of a thread.

It was pretty bad early but this thread isn't even the worst one on the Superbar

[rocket surgeon]

You know nothing about Steve Kerr and what kind of person he is.

One thing he isn't is "a total POS."

You sure you weren't looking in the mirror when you typed that, Smuggles?

Steve Kerr, nice guy, smart guy, good coach, respected by many.  But his moral equivalency of us "mowing down people in malls with AR's"  was not even close to china's executing hundreds of thousands of their enemies to harvest their organs and millions of Muslims in concentration camps...one cannot even approach chinas HR abuses and use them in the same sentence as society in America having evil people doing evil things.  China is led by evil people doing horrendous things (every day)without any pushback. 

    The comparison was lazy at best which tells you a lot about the person making the comment-he is willing to turn his head on millions and millions of abuses because we get an occasional dipwad doing some evil chit.  Here's the difference, if we want to make one- our evil person, if they don't get shot or commit suicide by cop of themselves, gets punitive action.  In China, their horrendous actions are the norm and since they are carried out by 5he state, no consequences.  No one like stee Kerr comes out an exposed them...why? 



           

[rocket surgeon]

This is the heart of it.

The actual "bad thing" according to some is shining a light on our own warts. Pointing a finger and demonizing an outside/other? Do it to your heart's content... in fact, it's your moral obligation to do so.

Glass houses.

The equivalency of our political actions, human rights, etc aren't even in the same stratosphere as China. Disgusting to even try   

[MU82]

Steve Kerr, nice guy, smart guy, good coach, respected by many.  But his moral equivalency of us "mowing down people in malls with AR's"  was not even close to china's executing hundreds of thousands of their enemies to harvest their organs and millions of Muslims in concentration camps...one cannot even approach chinas HR abuses and use them in the same sentence as society in America having evil people doing evil things.  China is led by evil people doing horrendous things (every day)without any pushback. 

    The comparison was lazy at best which tells you a lot about the person making the comment-he is willing to turn his head on millions and millions of abuses because we get an occasional dipwad doing some evil chit.  Here's the difference, if we want to make one- our evil person, if they don't get shot or commit suicide by cop of themselves, gets punitive action.  In China, their horrendous actions are the norm and since they are carried out by 5he state, no consequences.  No one like stee Kerr comes out an exposed them...why? 
       

Huh?

[rocket surgeon]

Huh?

If I knew Chinese, I'd give you their version 🤣

[cheebs09]

LeBron just decided to add some fuel to the fire for the NBA/China issue.

[mu03eng]

LeBron just decided to add some fuel to the fire for the NBA/China issue.

Yeah, he's getting dragged on Twitter right now. Maybe he spoke his real beliefs though because any other approach would make more sense then the one he took tonight.

[forgetful]

LeBron just decided to add some fuel to the fire for the NBA/China issue.

Essentially what Lebron said today was, Shame on him for not thinking about money before tweeting about the safety and rights of Hong Kong protestors.

[buckchuckler]

I know I shouldn't be, but I'm a bit surprised how the NBA, up and down the line is throwing basic freedoms under the bus to support China.

It really turns me off to the NBA, and even being a Bulls fan hadn't quite done that.

[jesmu84]

Contrast Lebron's opinion today with.... https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1183944777550745600

Oh, and Enes Kanter is not a fan. https://twitter.com/EnesKanter/status/1183949336901816326?s=20

[mu03eng]

I know I shouldn't be, but I'm a bit surprised how the NBA, up and down the line is throwing basic freedoms under the bus to support China.

It really turns me off to the NBA, and even being a Bulls fan hadn't quite done that.

I'm not mad, I'm.....I'm just disappointed.

I will say, this kind of epic failure I would have expected out of the NFL way before I thought the NBA would step in it this bad

[Cheeks]

Don't worry, soon we will have someone post how great Nike's earnings are and that's all that matters apparently.

Nike is so woke, accept when their supply chain and potential billions of customers are on the line. 

[Galway Eagle]

Don't worry, soon we will have someone post how great Nike's earnings are and that's all that matters apparently.

Nike is so woke, accept when their supply chain and potential billions of customers are on the line.

You mean "Except"

Also Nike is not "woke" they've never been "woke" anyone with half a brain knows they aren't "woke" maybe their marketing department in the US knows that their customer base and sponsors want to appear "woke" but most people are stupid and don't research things.

https://goodonyou.eco/how-ethical-is-nike-e03/?utm_expid=.HxunaBriRCGYXup3LBQVKQ.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

[The Sultan]

Right.  The whole reason Nike came out in support of Kaepernick was because its reasearch showed them it was a good idea.  It's not as though they provided that support immediately after his first started kneeing.