Oh, how the worm can turn.

[Lennys Tap]

Fischer was more of a Crean leftover, he had a semester of practice under Buzz.

Left Crean to play for Buzz = Buzz leftover.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Interesting.  According to this objective ranking, Wojo's best season was the year three of "Buzz's leftovers" were seniors and played important roles on the team.  Yep, Buzz truly left a bare cupboard.

If the best thing you can say about the cupboard is that they "played important roles" as seniors on a team that earned a 10 seed...

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

+1

Why is "Wojo got better every year" stated as a fact?  Wojo made the dance in year 3, and missed it in year 4.  It seems like he got worse once Buzz's leftovers were no longer on the team.

College basketball goes in cycles. Teams have up years, teams have down years. If you're doing it right, you have at least two up years to every down year. Year 4 was always going to be a down year due to how many people were graduating. The last time that many players graduated was Wojo's 1st year and they had a sub .500 record. Next down year was year 4 and they just missed the dance. That's improvement. Next down year is next year. Goal should be to still make the tournament despite losing Markus, Ed, Jayce, and Sacar. As long as each cycle is getting better you're improving.

[Pakuni]

Left Crean to play for Buzz = Buzz leftover.

More like "Left Crean because homesickness; came to Marquette because close to home."

[Lennys Tap]

If the best thing you can say about the cupboard is that they "played important roles" as seniors on a team that earned a 10 seed...

I know "bare cupboard" is an accepted "fact" around here but the roster Wojo inherited had seven (7)  rsci top100 players on it. One senior (#81), one junior (#82) four sophomores (#30, #54, #59, #71) and one freshman (#75).

Four left before they completed eligibility, one struggled with injuries - so some mitigating circumstances. But how many top 100 guys does a new MU coach generally inherit?

[Lennys Tap]

More like "Left Crean because homesickness; came to Marquette because close to home."

More like "Hated the culture at Indiana".

[Lennys Tap]

This is a no good, very bad take. Perhaps you should take a second look at that year three roster.

Please explain.

[Pakuni]

More like "Hated the culture at Indiana".

k

[Pakuni]

Please explain.

You're a smart guy. I'm sure you can Google the roster, review the minutes played, leading scorers, advanced stats, etc., and figure it out.

[Lennys Tap]

College basketball goes in cycles. Teams have up years, teams have down years. If you're doing it right, you have at least two up years to every down year. Year 4 was always going to be a down year due to how many people were graduating. The last time that many players graduated was Wojo's 1st year and they had a sub .500 record. Next down year was year 4 and they just missed the dance. That's improvement. Next down year is next year. Goal should be to still make the tournament despite losing Markus, Ed, Jayce, and Sacar. As long as each cycle is getting better you're improving.
[/quotes


One "up" year is a cycle that's followed by a "down" year? Not at any successful program I've ever seen. Cycles, maybe. Cycles that last one year? No way.

Sorry - misread - your cycles are 2 up, one down. I don't see year#2 in the Wojo regime as part of an up cycle. Our Pomeroy ranking was virtually the same as the previous year - in the 90s.

[Lennys Tap]

You're a smart guy. I'm sure you can Google the roster, review the minutes played, leading scorers, advanced stats, etc., and figure it out.

See your point - Duane role was limited (injuries) and Fischer's role decreased as the season went on.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I know "bare cupboard" is an accepted "fact" around here but the roster Wojo inherited had seven (7)  rsci top100 players on it. One senior (#81), one junior (#82) four sophomores (#30, #54, #59, #71) and one freshman (#75).

Four left before they completed eligibility, one struggled with injuries - so some mitigating circumstances. But how many top 100 guys does a new MU coach generally inherit?

When Wojo was hired, which do you think was a more valuable indicator of talent? Juan Anderson's RSCI ranking from 3 years ago? Or Juan's three year career at Marquette? Cause I think the latter tells you a lot more about how good the player actually was. Same goes for Steve Taylor, Jajuan Johnson, Luke Fischer, and the rest.

Wojo inherited a team that missed the NIT....then lost 5 of its top 6 players in terms of minutes played....and the 1 was Derrick Wilson.

[Shooter McGavin]

College basketball goes in cycles. Teams have up years, teams have down years. If you're doing it right, you have at least two up years to every down year. Year 4 was always going to be a down year due to how many people were graduating. The last time that many players graduated was Wojo's 1st year and they had a sub .500 record. Next down year was year 4 and they just missed the dance. That's improvement. Next down year is next year. Goal should be to still make the tournament despite losing Markus, Ed, Jayce, and Sacar. As long as each cycle is getting better you're improving.

Way too reasonable take on the situation.  This will not register with the wojo haters.

[Small Orange Soda]

Way too reasonable take on the situation.  This will not register with the wojo haters.

People who think going from the NCAA tournament to the NIT is improving: Reasonable.

People who don't: Wojo Haters.

[Lennys Tap]

When Wojo was hired, which do you think was a more valuable indicator of talent? Juan Anderson's RSCI ranking from 3 years ago? Or Juan's three year career at Marquette? Cause I think the latter tells you a lot more about how good the player actually was. Same goes for Steve Taylor, Jajuan Johnson, Luke Fischer, and the rest.

Wojo inherited a team that missed the NIT....then lost 5 of its top 6 players in terms of minutes played....and the 1 was Derrick Wilson.

He inherited a freshman (Sandy Cohen) who was talented and left. Four sophomores who were talented - JJJ, uber talented but never developed, Fish, who actually regressed, Duane, who had some injuries and left and Deonte, who was the best of them all but left. One junior, Steve Taylor - solid but left. And one senior (Juan) who never fulfilled his promise.

So, lots of excuses (some valid) but still seven (7) rsci top 100 guys. No new MU coach ever inherited nearly that many. So not a totally bare cupboard like some suggest.

[Herman Cain]

When Wojo was hired, which do you think was a more valuable indicator of talent? Juan Anderson's RSCI ranking from 3 years ago? Or Juan's three year career at Marquette? Cause I think the latter tells you a lot more about how good the player actually was. Same goes for Steve Taylor, Jajuan Johnson, Luke Fischer, and the rest.

Wojo inherited a team that missed the NIT....then lost 5 of its top 6 players in terms of minutes played....and the 1 was Derrick Wilson.

Juan has been invited to the Warriors training camp this season....... 

[hairy worthen]

College basketball goes in cycles. Teams have up years, teams have down years. If you're doing it right, you have at least two up years to every down year. Year 4 was always going to be a down year due to how many people were graduating. The last time that many players graduated was Wojo's 1st year and they had a sub .500 record. Next down year was year 4 and they just missed the dance. That's improvement. Next down year is next year. Goal should be to still make the tournament despite losing Markus, Ed, Jayce, and Sacar. As long as each cycle is getting better you're improving.

Now there is some world class rationalization. Well done.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Juan has been invited to the Warriors training camp this season....... 

You'll notice the sentence you quoted said how good Juan Anderson was. Players do improve after they graduate.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

He inherited a freshman (Sandy Cohen) who was talented and left. Four sophomores who were talented - JJJ, uber talented but never developed, Fish, who actually regressed, Duane, who had some injuries and left and Deonte, who was the best of them all but left. One junior, Steve Taylor - solid but left. And one senior (Juan) who never fulfilled his promise.

So, lots of excuses (some valid) but still seven (7) rsci top 100 guys. No new MU coach ever inherited nearly that many. So not a totally bare cupboard like some suggest.

So "talented" for you means that they were ranked highly out of high school. All those RSCI numbers tell me is that Buzz recruited a lot of overranked freshmen, which was already a habit for him (Jamail Jones, Eric Williams, Jamal Ferguson....etc)

Wojo took over a team that missed the NIT, lost 5 of its top 6 (the 1 being Derrick Wilson), and only had 1 incoming freshman left in its class (the 3rd best one). No MU coach since KO inherited less.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Now there is some world class rationalization. Well done.

Not rationalizing at all. Other than the one and one factories of Kentucky and Duke that is how college basketball works for winning programs. 2-3 good years followed by a down year.

[Its DJOver]

He inherited a freshman (Sandy Cohen) who was talented and left. Four sophomores who were talented - JJJ, uber talented but never developed, Fish, who actually regressed, Duane, who had some injuries and left and Deonte, who was the best of them all but left. One junior, Steve Taylor - solid but left. And one senior (Juan) who never fulfilled his promise.

So, lots of excuses (some valid) but still seven (7) rsci top 100 guys. No new MU coach ever inherited nearly that many. So not a totally bare cupboard like some suggest.

Luke sitting out due to transfer rules aside, if they were so talented why couldn't Buzz (generally regarded as a better coach) win with them? 

[Galway Eagle]

He inherited a freshman (Sandy Cohen) who was talented and left. Four sophomores who were talented - JJJ, uber talented but never developed, Fish, who actually regressed, Duane, who had some injuries and left and Deonte, who was the best of them all but left. One junior, Steve Taylor - solid but left. And one senior (Juan) who never fulfilled his promise.

So, lots of excuses (some valid) but still seven (7) rsci top 100 guys. No new MU coach ever inherited nearly that many. So not a totally bare cupboard like some suggest.

If your argument is all about RSCI guys that's weak as can be. Why don't you put together a team of E Williams, Jamail Jones, Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson, Junior Cadougan against Jae Crowder, DJO, Jimmy Butler, Dwight Buycks, Lazar Hayward.

RSCI means nothing once they've gotten to college and shown they were vastly over/under rated

[Cheeks]

I know "bare cupboard" is an accepted "fact" around here but the roster Wojo inherited had seven (7)  rsci top100 players on it. One senior (#81), one junior (#82) four sophomores (#30, #54, #59, #71) and one freshman (#75).

Four left before they completed eligibility, one struggled with injuries - so some mitigating circumstances. But how many top 100 guys does a new MU coach generally inherit?

Here we go again....should we look to see how some of those top 100 RSCI players turned out over the years?  Erik Williams.  Juan.  Steve Taylor. Sandy Cohen.  Etc etc Just because you land there doesn't mean you should, or doesn't mean the recruiting "experts" totally messed up. 

[Galway Eagle]

Here we go again....should we look to see how some of those top 100 RSCI players turned out over the years?  Erik Williams.  Fulce.  Steve Taylor.  Etc etc Just because you land there doesn't mean you should, or doesn't mean the recruiting "experts" totally messed up.

Fulce?

[Cheeks]

Fulce?

Fixed.  I meant Juan not Joe.

Just to show how absurd these rankings can be......the ultimate crapshoot.....Matt Heldt 96 RSCI.  Sam Hauser 94 RSCI.

They are dependent on the talent level of that particular class.  A 60th rated guy one year could be 90th the following year or 30th depending on the talent levels of that crop of talent.  Plus you get into so much subjectivity.  I've said before, the RSCI is fine directionally and normally very good for the top of the top, but once  you get past a certain number (20's or 30's), the subjectivity factor looms ever larger.