California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players

[MU82]

You make some excellent points but don't torpedo your own credibility by equating endorsement payments to students, that already enjoy significant financial and other benefits compared to other students, with people's personal safety in the workplace.

Also, I think it if a cornerstone of the argument for these payments is that DI basketball and football is comparable to college music and theater programs, then never will the two sides agree.

I agree with you that change is coming. I think players will get (more) money. I also think this will have to precipitate additional changes "whether some Scoopers like it or not".

Thanks for the response, WT.

Yes, I probably stretched it some with my analogies, but my point remains solid (actually irrefutable IMHO):

The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of high school athletes do not have a "choice" if they want to keep playing. The NCAA is a monopoly. It is the only realistic choice to all but a fraction of 1% of HS athletes. To say athletes simply should "choose" something else -- and if they don't, they should just shut up and play -- is absurd. (Not saying you said this, but others have.)

And the NCAA hiding behind sham amateurism gets tiresome.

I already have fully acknowledged that when this does come to pass -- and it will -- it will lead to changes within the structure of college sports. The changes might be huge, and that's OK.

Changes were huge when the powers that be decided that women deserved the right to participate and to get athletic scholarships. The changes were huge when knuckle-dragging schools finally started letting blacks participate. The changes were huge when the NCAA bent the knee to worship TV money. College sports survived all of those huge changes and many others. It surely will survive this, and probably even thrive.

And sorry for calling you Shirley.

[Cheeks]

My background is irrelevant.  It's simple.  Athletes and all college students should be able to profit off their likeness.  This isn't about Marquette cutting a check to one player. 

The NCAA has perpetuated the myth of amateurism to control and profit off the players.  Major college athletics wouldn't be here without the athletes and in turn, the money pouring into college athletics from television and apparel contracts wouldn't be there to support the non-revenue sports.

If the goal is to retain amateurism, it's simple.  Eliminate athletic scholarships and big money.  That isn't happening.  There will always be haves and have-nots in all levels of sports.  The playing field is NOT level in any sense.  Will schools get left behind?  That's up to them.

We can also get into the academic portion of this as well.  Nobody cares about these kids getting educated.  They care about them winning.  Wojo isn't keeping his job if he graduates 100% of his kids with medical degrees.  He keeps his job if he wins, period. 

If we take off the false veneer of amateurism, we see what we already know, college athletics are a big business built on winning, at all levels

Nobody cares?

Good Lord.  Do you even know your own history of Marquette athletics?  Do you know how many men and women have gone through this institution as student athletes with likely never even thinking about a degree, but got one because people cared and pushed them.  Talk to Bo Ellis.  Talk to Jim Chones...I'll send you his cell and you can text him.  Talk to Ric Cobb or George Thompson.  Talk to William Gates.

Stop with the absolutes.  Plenty of people care that they graduate.  Yes, there are some kids that don't care and some schools that don't care....why do you and others here expand that to all?  Look at our own damn history!!!!!

[Uncle Rico]

Nobody cares?

Good Lord.  Do you even know your own history of Marquette athletics?  Do you know how many men and women have gone through this institution as student athletes with likely never even thinking about a degree, but got one because people cared and pushed them.  Talk to Bo Ellis.  Talk to Jim Chones...I'll send you his cell and you can text him.  Talk to Ric Cobb or George Thompson.  Talk to William Gates.

Stop with the absolutes.  Plenty of people care that they graduate.  Yes, there are some kids that don't care and some schools that don't care....why do you and others here expand that to all?  Look at our own damn history!!!!!

If Wojo graduates 100% of his students and misses the tourney every year, he will be fired

[Cheeks]

Today's Eye on College Basketball podcast addresses this well. A few things they touch on:

- The California law has language built in to anticipate legal challenges from the NCAA.
- While the player value does derive from going to the university, the value is still there. For contrast, yes, Lebron is worth more because of the NBA, but that doesn't change that he has that value. Just like winning a gold medal or starring in a Academy Award winning movie would increase one's value despite doing it for a country or film company.
- This won't just be the Zions of the world. Yes, they'll get the biggest money, but this will trickle down the roster thanks to local business. They didn't mention video games, but they should have.
- In every way except player compensation, the NCAA is trying to run professional sports programs. They chase TV contracts like professional sports. They pay coaches like professional sports. The facilities, the arenas, the branding is all done how professional sports does it. The ONLY time they cry amateurism is when it comes to player compensation.
- The 2023 date is built in to give the NCAA time but also to force their hand. The NCAA told California they were working on it and to give them time. California answered that the NCAA has had enough time, you're on our timetable now.
- This passed both houses unanimously with Republican and Democratic support. This is not a partisan issue.
- The idea the NCAA seeks a level playing field for all is laughable.

It's a good listen.

The NCAA doesn't pay coaching salaries.

The NCAA rule book is the same for all schools per division, and does seek a level playing field.  The ncaa cannot dictate a coach's salary or what purpose a building will be on campus.  The rules of how you. Can recruit, what you can do, etc, are the same for all.

The value is driven by the school platforms they give.  The student athletes should compensate the schools if they are getting paid.  A hair stylist has to rent a space to cut hair....the salon gives them a platform.  The athlete isn't paying for the coaching, the gear, the tutors, the setup at the facilities, the maintenance at the facilities, the cleaning services, etc.  Nothing.

[Cheeks]

I'm not naive enough to think there won't be any other changes, large or small.  The rise of college athletics have been built on the back of the athletes.  I haven't advocated the school paying players.  It's about players earning because of their talents. 

As far as the IRS, yes, they'll get their share.  They always do and I believe they should.  But it'll be from those earning a check.

Universities have options.  If their main concern is their educational mission, I've never understood how that matches with what college sports have become.  And that's at all levels.  We can spend days finding malfeasance from all levels

The rise came from television and content.  The NCAA tournament money is happening regardless of who the players are for the same reason people watch the Little League World Series, darts, truck pulls, etc.  Sure, audience sizes change, but let's not pretend all of this was built on the backs of players.  That is 100% bullshit.

[dgies9156]

My background is irrelevant.  It's simple.  Athletes and all college students should be able to profit off their likeness.  This isn't about Marquette cutting a check to one player. 

The NCAA has perpetuated the myth of amateurism to control and profit off the players.  Major college athletics wouldn't be here without the athletes and in turn, the money pouring into college athletics from television and apparel contracts wouldn't be there to support the non-revenue sports.

If the goal is to retain amateurism, it's simple.  Eliminate athletic scholarships and big money.  That isn't happening.  There will always be haves and have-nots in all levels of sports.  The playing field is NOT level in any sense.  Will schools get left behind?  That's up to them.

We can also get into the academic portion of this as well.  Nobody cares about these kids getting educated.  They care about them winning.  Wojo isn't keeping his job if he graduates 100% of his kids with medical degrees.  He keeps his job if he wins, period. 

If we take off the false veneer of amateurism, we see what we already know, college athletics are a big business built on winning, at all levels

Brother Rico:

You could not be more right. College sports is a business. The only other business I can think of that has the same tax status as college athletics is the credit union business.

Period.

The only way I know to change this is the Internal Revenue Code. You operate within the law but, as I said twice previously, you recognize a barter transaction for what it is. You tax it.

Ask a group of college athletes to pay taxes on the in-state or out-of-state tuition for the University of Michigan and I promise you, things will change. So fast heads will spin.

If you do this, you'll have to get the band members too. And anyone else whose scholarship depends on providing a service to the university. Probably RAs, who would be taxed on free housing and any tuition discounts.

For those of you who have cars as part of your job, how is paying taxes on the portion of the car used for personal matters any different than taxing college scholarships for athletes? I'm all ears on this one!

[Cheeks]

What would Tim Tebow say? I'm guessing Tebow wasn't paid based on his comments...but I thought all the stars were paid?


https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/09/13/tim-tebow-fair-pay-play-act-playing-college-players-video

[Cheeks]

If Wojo graduates 100% of his students and misses the tourney every year, he will be fired

You said nobody cares and you could not be more wrong.  Absolutely ignoring or own program history along with many other programs.

Guess what, if Wojo makes the tournament every year and no one graduates or we fall below the APR mark which prevents us from going to the tournament, he is also getting fired.

Stop with the BS that nobody cares.  I used to work with those fine people that busted their arses to make sure those kids also busted theirs...went to class, did their assignments, studies, etc.

A lot of people care...a LOT....including players, their parents, etc

[Galway Eagle]

Either way on this I wish LeBron would STFU about supporting it. He's shouldn't have anything to do with influencing college sports

[The Sultan]

Either way on this I wish LeBron would STFU about supporting it. He's shouldn't have anything to do with influencing college sports

???  Why? 

[Galway Eagle]

???  Why?

Because he didn't play. He was getting paid huge money in high school and chose to go pro, nothing wrong with that, but then he has no understanding of the trade of a degree, meal plan, platform to market your skills, weight training etc. for basketball services.

Doesn't deserve to have a voice in this conversation

[The Sultan]

LOL, but we can discuss it on a message board?  He can't discuss a law under consideration in his own state of residence?

Silly.

[Galway Eagle]

LOL, but we can discuss it on a message board?  He can't discuss a law under consideration in his own state of residence?

Silly.

We all went to college (I think?) and therefore understand at least half of the trade off happening. Someone who didn't has no idea.

I didn't say anything about his residence, he's publicly supporting it, huge difference between saying at your BBQ "yeah I like that plan" vs putting it out there through your PR team

[brewcity77]

We all went to college (I think?) and therefore understand at least half of the trade off happening. Someone who didn't has no idea.

I didn't say anything about his residence, he's publicly supporting it, huge difference between saying at your BBQ "yeah I like that plan" vs putting it out there through your PR team

He also has a son who has received high-major offers to play basketball and will almost certainly be on scholarship somewhere around the time this rule is going into effect. I get that Lebron himself wasn't in the process, but he does have family that will be immediately impacted by it.

[Galway Eagle]

He also has a son who has received high-major offers to play basketball and will almost certainly be on scholarship somewhere around the time this rule is going into effect. I get that Lebron himself wasn't in the process, but he does have family that will be immediately impacted by it.

My understanding was that by the time he is going to college the NBA will have revoked the one and done rule?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

???  Why?

I prefer athletes stick to politics.

[brewcity77]

My understanding was that by the time he is going to college the NBA will have revoked the one and done rule?

It's possible, but I'm not convinced he's that level of talent. None of the reputable sources have a 2023 list yet, and while he's being indicated as a potential 5-star prospect, his jump to the NBA would be a long way off. Further, I think he's going to be evaluated more positively because he's James' son and because everyone has their eyes on him.

[Galway Eagle]

It's possible, but I'm not convinced he's that level of talent. None of the reputable sources have a 2023 list yet, and while he's being indicated as a potential 5-star prospect, his jump to the NBA would be a long way off. Further, I think he's going to be evaluated more positively because he's James' son and because everyone has their eyes on him.

Gotcha. Well then maybe by the time this rule comes to fruition I'll have changed my mind but till then I stand firm.

[The Sultan]

Who cares how good his son is.  He has every right to make comments because...well...it's a democracy.

Still very silly.

[Pakuni]

What would Tim Tebow day?  I'm guessing Tebow wasn't paid based on his comments...but I thought all the stars were paid?


https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/09/13/tim-tebow-fair-pay-play-act-playing-college-players-video

The good news is that future Tim Tebows who believe it outrageous to profit off their own likeness could simply choose not to.
Problem solved.

[Galway Eagle]

Who cares how good his son is.  He has every right to make comments because...well...it's a democracy.

Still very silly.

Yes I'm sure you've said that whenever idiotic celebrities say things you disagree with that are much political in nature. I'm sure you've never said this person shouldn't be saying something to influence opinions on their platform when they don't grasp the issue at hand.

[Pakuni]

Yes I'm sure you've said that whenever idiotic celebrities say things you disagree with that are much political in nature. I'm sure you've never said this person shouldn't be saying something to influence opinions on their platform when they don't grasp the issue at hand.

Why do you believe LeBron doesn't grasp the issue at hand?

[Galway Eagle]

Why do you believe LeBron doesn't grasp the issue at hand?

I already stated above. I don't think he understands value of college, nor the full extent of athletic scholarship perks that the athletes get. I'm not saying I'm against this bill just that I'm against a celebrity, who is not a college stakeholder, using their platform to influence the outcome and public opinion.

[The Sultan]

Yes I'm sure you've said that whenever idiotic celebrities say things you disagree with that are much political in nature. I'm sure you've never said this person shouldn't be saying something to influence opinions on their platform when they don't grasp the issue at hand.

I really don't pay attention to what any celebrity says about anything substantive.  But I would never say something as silly as they don't "deserve to have a voice in this conversation."  Of course they do.

[The Sultan]

I already stated above. I don't think he understands value of college, nor the full extent of athletic scholarship perks that the athletes get. I'm not saying I'm against this bill just that I'm against a celebrity, who is not a college stakeholder, using their platform to influence the outcome and public opinion.

I know right?  God forbid that a citizen state an opinion on a civic issue.