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Author Topic: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players  (Read 68589 times)

Uncle Rico

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2019, 07:29:41 PM »
If student athletes want to get paid, then I agree that they should be allowed to get jobs during their off season and that shouldn't be a problem.

Look, I'm not a big fan of the NCAA either, but this WILL hurt Marquette greatly, and benefit the schools like Duke, North Carolina etc, who are already on top of the food chain. Pakuni said he just wants things to be "fair". Okay so...they do this and the QB is going to make thousand upon thousands of dollars on his likeness, but the 3rd string offensive tackle??Who's going to want to "promote" him and give him earning opportunities as well??  How is that fair??

The market decides fair compensation.  What Pakuni is implying is, if the star athlete at Alabama is as valuable as the head coach, he should be compensated in the same manner.

UNC and Duke already have a huge advantage over Marquette.  Marquette will have to continue to work hard to attract top athletes, regardless of them getting compensated for their likeness.

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WhiteTrash

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2019, 07:42:58 PM »
The law simply states college athletes can earn off their likeness.  Similar laws are being proposed in Washington, Colorado and North Carolina.  The NCAA can fight those laws in court and would lose.
The NCAA does not have to fight the laws in court. It will simply enforce the rules the member institutions have. I don't see how the NCAA has standing to sue the states.

Pot is legal in many states but athletes choose to follow league rules and not use it. As far as I know, the NBA has not challenged Colorado in court.   

Will a school or student sue the NCAA? Possibly or probably. Will they win? I don't know, I'm not a lawyer.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 07:50:52 PM by WhiteTrash »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2019, 07:43:34 PM »
Of course it is...it typifies the world we live in now, where everyone wants everything to be fair..


I mean, isn't that an admirable goal?
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Cheeks

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2019, 07:44:49 PM »
Why is amateurism important to anyone?  If amateurism is so important, eliminate sports scholarships and follow the Ivy League model. 

Amateurism benefits everyone but the amateur

Because they attend school, and it isn’t a job.  I can get on a pro player and boo because that is his job, not a college player that is taking classes, doing stuff other students do.  The entire dynamic changes, and I hope the courts won’t allow the changes.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2019, 07:46:52 PM »
Really?  Why not take that to all its logical conclusions of things some people can do and others have to wait.  Why is it fair that a 36 year old can run for POTUS but a 34 year old cannot?  Why is it fair that a 65 year old pilot has to retire from flying and not a 64 year old?  Why is it fair that Nick Saban can be fired from his job, but the History dept prof with tenure cannot?


The first is a Constitutional issue. 

The second is an international treaty of which the US agrees to abide by

The third is an employment contract.

Of course none of these are similar to what we are talking about.  But hey, it's fall!  So it's strawman season!!
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Pakuni

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2019, 07:47:32 PM »
Really?  Why not take that to all its logical conclusions of things some people can do and others have to wait.  Why is it fair that a 36 year old can run for POTUS but a 34 year old cannot?  Why is it fair that a 65 year old pilot has to retire from flying and not a 64 year old?  Why is it fair that Nick Saban can be fired from his job, but the History dept prof with tenure cannot?

Etc etc etc

Rewriting the Constitution is the logical conclusion of allowing Trevor Lawrence to get paid for his autograph? Allowing the next Zion Williamson to appear in a Nike ad is the same as permitting senior citizens to fly commercial passenger aircraft?
Can't argue with that logic.

Oh, and history professors can be fired. And when they do, they don't often leave with multimillion dollar parting gifts, unlike many head college football coaches.

MUCam

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2019, 08:11:58 PM »
Really?  Why not take that to all its logical conclusions of things some people can do and others have to wait.  Why is it fair that a 36 year old can run for POTUS but a 34 year old cannot?  Why is it fair that a 65 year old pilot has to retire from flying and not a 64 year old?  Why is it fair that Nick Saban can be fired from his job, but the History dept prof with tenure cannot?

Etc etc etc

Thank goodness someone pointed out the ridiculousness of this argument. Wow. This isn’t your best work, by far, and the bar is not really that high.

WhiteTrash

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2019, 08:24:47 PM »
The most significant underlying issue is the same one that brought us the "crazy" and "stupid" NCAA rules decades ago; overzealous boosters. The NCAA rulebook and thus its public image would look significantly different today if not for the likes of SEC and Big XII football fans.

In a vacuum, paying players for their images or allowing them to have jobs is very fair and just. But, alas, the world is not a vacuum. The mission of the NCAA is NOT to 'use players' to make millions, it's to keep the playing field level. But, reading the NCAA rules without historical context would lead anyone to believe it's a wacked out organization with unethical motives.

The media loves to rip the NCAA for how Zion was treated but does anyone doubt that a 4th string LSU linebacker or the 13th man on UNC's basketball team will have a six figure endorsement deal when this all comes to pass?

Are they worth it? Yes, because the free market works. But the value is not based upon performance but the booster's desire to get the best players or to keep other schools for getting them. Pro sports figured this out years ago and thus all leagues have salary caps to promote a level playing field.

panda

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2019, 08:26:27 PM »
One of the biggest appeals to me for college sports(hoops in general) is the fact they DON'T get paid, and they play for school pride. Not sure why so many are giddy about the idea of college athletes getting paid anyway. Is there not enough greed in America now, the way it is?? Look, I'm not a huge fan of the NCAA and the way the major schools get let off the hook with so much stuff the way it is, but to me, this will just tip the scales even more in their favor. Schools like Marquette will get left behind, and I don't like that one damn bit.

I mean, what's going to happen with this...your star PG tells you he has to leave practice a bit early because he has to do a "spot" for the local car dealership?? They are going to put the $$ they can make over the love and pride they are supposed to have for their school, and it's just going to become ugly in my opinion.

As has been said many times, they get free room and board and a free scholarship...other students don't get that. It's similar to "benefits" we get from our employers.

Why would athletes play with any less pride?

Does the student who gets a paid internship have less loyalty to their school too?

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2019, 08:27:09 PM »
The most significant underlying issue is the same one that brought us the "crazy" and "stupid" NCAA rules decades ago; overzealous boosters. The NCAA rulebook and thus its public image would look significantly different today if not for the likes of SEC and Big XII football fans.

In a vacuum, paying players for their images or allowing them to have jobs is very fair and just. But, alas, the world is not a vacuum. The mission of the NCAA is NOT to 'use players' to make millions, it's to keep the playing field level. But, reading the NCAA rules without historical context would lead anyone to believe it's a wacked out organization with unethical motives.

The media loves to rip the NCAA for how Zion was treated but does anyone doubt that a 4th string LSU linebacker or the 13th man on UNC's basketball team will have a six figure endorsement deal when this all comes to pass?

Are they worth it? Yes, because the free market works. But the value is not based upon performance but the booster's desire to get the best players or to keep other schools for getting them. Pro sports figured this out years ago and thus all leagues have salary caps to promote a level playing field.

If the NCAA's job is to keep the playing field level, it is doing an awful job at it.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

jesmu84

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2019, 08:27:14 PM »
If student athletes want to get paid, then I agree that they should be allowed to get jobs during their off season and that shouldn't be a problem.

Look, I'm not a big fan of the NCAA either, but this WILL hurt Marquette greatly, and benefit the schools like Duke, North Carolina etc, who are already on top of the food chain. Pakuni said he just wants things to be "fair". Okay so...they do this and the QB is going to make thousand upon thousands of dollars on his likeness, but the 3rd string offensive tackle??Who's going to want to "promote" him and give him earning opportunities as well??  How is that fair??

No they shouldn't.

Some big time booster could guarantee a recruit a cushy, high paying "internship" in the off season.

No jobs for athletes should be allowed. Can't guarantee there won't be shady things going on.

jesmu84

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2019, 08:31:04 PM »
As for "end of the NCAA tournament as we know it"..

I believe I heard over and over from the powers that be that college football would be ruined if the BCS was eliminated and a playoff instituted. Of course, once those powers figured out how to do a playoff and keep their hands in the cookie jar, it was all good.

muguru

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2019, 08:43:56 PM »
No they shouldn't.

Some big time booster could guarantee a recruit a cushy, high paying "internship" in the off season.

No jobs for athletes should be allowed. Can't guarantee there won't be shady things going on.

Then paying them for their "likeness" shouldn't be allowed either. You have any idea how much shady stuff would be going on there?? Tons.
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jesmu84

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2019, 08:45:50 PM »
Then paying them for their "likeness" shouldn't be allowed either. You have any idea how much shady stuff would be going on there?? Tons.

So you agree they shouldn't be allowed to have jobs? Good

panda

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2019, 08:50:05 PM »
Then paying them for their "likeness" shouldn't be allowed either. You have any idea how much shady stuff would be going on there?? Tons.

Shady stuff like what? Shoe companies bribing recruits to go to the school of their liking? The horror!!

WhiteTrash

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #65 on: September 10, 2019, 08:51:32 PM »
If the NCAA's job is to keep the playing field level, it is doing an awful job at it.
I think in an honest moment even the NCAA administration would agree with you.

I think the NCAA's mission, at the DI level, has become impossible. I don't think they are idiots or corrupt or racists or whatever the media wants to label them; I think they have been asked to do the impossible.

In order for the top college players to get what is "fair", the system must go professional and formally split from the universities. This will satisfy LeBron, California lawmakers, the IRS and remove Title IX from the equation.

Buggy whip makers and DI athletics had their day but time and progress moves on.

brewcity77

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2019, 08:54:01 PM »
Meaning if the California schools sued the NCAA?

How do the courts view members of a voluntary institution suing that institution for enforcing the rules that all the other members agree to?

Because NCAA rules do not supercede laws and the schools did nothing to change their eligibility status. The NCAA would be trying to enforce illegal laws or force their member institutions to break the law to remain members. They wouldn't stand a chance.

One of the biggest appeals to me for college sports(hoops in general) is the fact they DON'T get paid, and they play for school pride.

Maybe it's just me, but I see a ton of irony in someone to whom my alma mater's mission is meaningless and the education and ethics part have no significance caring about this. I can't take this seriously from you. It's totally insincere.

Groundswell?  The most recent poll was 2019 by Seton Hall University that showed 49% support.  Different definition of groundswell, apparently.

Isn't the most recent poll both houses of the California legislature passing this unanimously?
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StillAWarrior

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2019, 08:54:22 PM »
Pot is legal in many states but athletes choose to follow league rules and not use it.

Teal?
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StillAWarrior

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #68 on: September 10, 2019, 08:57:30 PM »
No they shouldn't.

Some big time booster could guarantee a recruit a cushy, high paying "internship" in the off season.

No jobs for athletes should be allowed. Can't guarantee there won't be shady things going on.

Well, somehow NCAA sports manage to survive even though athletes can have jobs.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 09:01:48 PM by StillAWarrior »
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WhiteTrash

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2019, 08:59:56 PM »
Shady stuff like what? Shoe companies bribing recruits to go to the school of their liking? The horror!!
It's not a horror and I don't know if anyone labeled it as such.

Driving 5 mph over the speed limit is not a horror either but it is against the law.

If you don't like getting a ticket for speeding don't drive.

If Kansas doesn't like the rules against paying players then it can withdraw from the NCAA.   

WhiteTrash

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2019, 09:05:43 PM »
Because NCAA rules do not supercede laws and the schools did nothing to change their eligibility status. The NCAA would be trying to enforce illegal laws or force their member institutions to break the law to remain members. They wouldn't stand a chance.
Thanks for the feedback. I follow your logic but I don't see how the NCAA is forcing them to do anything. Membership in the NCAA is completely voluntary. The NCAA can't force any school in any state to do anything.

Any help to point out my gap(s) in logic is most welcome. I find the topic interesting.
 

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muguru

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2019, 09:11:23 PM »
It's not a horror and I don't know if anyone labeled it as such.

Driving 5 mph over the speed limit is not a horror either but it is against the law.

If you don't like getting a ticket for speeding don't drive.

If Kansas doesn't like the rules against paying players then it can withdraw from the NCAA.

And likewise, if the California schools wanna choose to pay their players, that's their prerogative, but then they can't complain about the NCAA wanting to enforce their rules(the one's all the member institutions agreed to abide by when they became members), and telling them they are ineligible for the NCAA's if they choose to pay their players. Seems reasonable to me..take your pick, pay your players(knowing when you agreed to be an NCAA member school that this could disqualify you from postseason play), or don't pay your players and still be eligible for postseason play. The other option is to withdraw from the NCAA and to form your own league with the 21 member institutions in California and set up whatever rules you want, have at it. I mean if they HATE the NCAA so much, and told them "not to threaten them", then why not just withdraw?? Why would it bother you if they tell you you're ineligible for postseason play if you don't really want to be a member anyway.
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muguru

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #73 on: September 10, 2019, 09:17:35 PM »
Because NCAA rules do not supercede laws and the schools did nothing to change their eligibility status. The NCAA would be trying to enforce illegal laws or force their member institutions to break the law to remain members. They wouldn't stand a chance.

Maybe it's just me, but I see a ton of irony in someone to whom my alma mater's mission is meaningless and the education and ethics part have no significance caring about this. I can't take this seriously from you. It's totally insincere.


Isn't the most recent poll both houses of the California legislature passing this unanimously?

Maybe it's just me, but I see a crap ton of irony in someone who attended said school, is seemingly a proud alum and supports the mission, & ethics of his alma mater and education he received, be 100% supportive of something that goes completely against the mission and ethics of his alma mater. Now THAT'S irony.
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

brewcity77

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Re: California to pass bill called "fair pay to play act"...to compensate players
« Reply #74 on: September 10, 2019, 09:20:46 PM »
Maybe it's just me, but I see a crap ton of irony in someone who attended said school, is seemingly a proud alum and supports the mission, & ethics of his alma mater and education he received, be 100% supportive of something that goes completely against the mission and ethics of his alma mater. Now THAT'S irony.

When I was in school, I could work. I could earn money off my likeness. You are clueless. Nothing about this goes against the mission or ethics of Marquette.
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