Crowder & Hayward to HOF

[Galway Eagle]

That's fine....go pro and use your likeness all you want.  Again the irony....the "other student" no one wants their photo.  I propose the student athlete pay the school for giving them a platform where someone cares enough to want their likeness, for without that platform they wouldn't care.  Let's have the players reimburse for all the value add being given by the conference, the fact that the school has to sell tickets, give them a safe environment to play, sets up media interviews for them, pushes media relations matters to benefit them, etc.

It's truly amazing how much the schools, conferences, etc do for the student athletes, but to hear the arguments here it is only the players.....the super exploited players.   .   At the end of the day the student athletes make out way ahead of the game then when they went in.

Actually there's loads of students that other would want their photo. At one point during my tenure we had a pro boxer and two Olympic speed skaters I know I'd want their photo more than 75% of the basketball players that came through during that same period.  Some schools have celebrity children (USC), porn stars (Duke, ASU), Instagram influencers, etc. and they are all profiting off their likeness. For someone that is usually very pro free market it's strange to me to see you arguing against any aspect of it.

[jesmu84]

Actually there's loads of students that other would want their photo. At one point during my tenure we had a pro boxer and two Olympic speed skaters I know I'd want their photo more than 75% of the basketball players that came through during that same period.  Some schools have celebrity children (USC), porn stars (Duke, ASU), Instagram influencers, etc. and they are all profiting off their likeness. For someone that is usually very pro free market it's strange to me to see you arguing against any aspect of it.

This is exactly what came to my mind. You wouldn't think "social media influencers" would be a thing. Yet there's people out there earning money simply based on having followers.

[The Sultan]

This is exactly what came to my mind. You wouldn't think "social media influencers" would be a thing. Yet there's people out there earning money simply based on having followers.

I know someone who went from a month to month existence as a freelance photographer to being an "influencer" who has pulled in seven figures the last three years.  She has two employees to handle her social media, web presense, etc., got her new house furnished for almost nothing last year, and spent all of January in Hawaii with free lodging.  All from over a million Instagram and Facebook followers. 

It's really weird, but she puts herself out there quite a bit and hawks stuff like there's no tomorrow.  It all started with an Instagram post that "went viral" and eventually ended up on Good Morning America.

[Cheeks]

Really no one is arguing they aren't getting a benefit.  What people are arguing is that many high level D1 players are worth MORE than the scholarship they are receiving.  Otherwise the under the table payments wouldn't exist.  It's an artificial cap on compensation that exists for very little legitimate reason.  The NCAA is usually amateurism as a virtue, which is complete rubbish, to make sure that they collect the revenue.

Don't pretend it's due to fairness.  Because if it were about fairness, there are dozens of things they could do to address the income inequities that exists in D1 sports today.  It's about making sure they get theirs by putting an artificial ceiling on compensation - which is really "Un-American" if you want to call it that.

The vast majority are not worth it, especially because so many of you don't factor in the training, etc they receive and what it yields after they leave.

We wouldn't do that for another educational approach, so why do we here?  Does a MU nursing student receive training that allows him or her to make money as a trained future nurse?  How much is that training worth in FUTURE dollars?  How about the law school student, dental school student, dental hygienists, etc, etc?  Accounting major....finance major.  All go to school, are trained and benefit long term for it.

Are the student athletes not receiving training that allows them to earn more dollars when they leave, especially the small percentage some claim are worth more than their scholarship?  Why is that not factored in?  Conveniently....ignored.

[jesmu84]

The vast majority are not worth it, especially because so many of you don't factor in the training, etc they receive and what it yields after they leave.

We wouldn't do that for another educational approach, so why do we here?  Does a MU nursing student receive training that allows him or her to make money as a trained future nurse?  How much is that training worth in FUTURE dollars?  How about the law school student, dental school student, dental hygienists, etc, etc?  Accounting major....finance major.  All go to school, are trained and benefit long term for it.

Are the student athletes not receiving training that allows them to earn more dollars when they leave, especially the small percentage some claim are worth more than their scholarship?  Why is that not factored in?  Conveniently....ignored.

I am 100% taking that into account.

But I also see a nursing student, receiving nursing training, can earn money on Instagram for being an influencer or for a comedy station on YouTube.

Why not athletes?

[The Sultan]

The vast majority are not worth it, especially because so many of you don't factor in the training, etc they receive and what it yields after they leave.

We wouldn't do that for another educational approach, so why do we here?  Does a MU nursing student receive training that allows him or her to make money as a trained future nurse?  How much is that training worth in FUTURE dollars?  How about the law school student, dental school student, dental hygienists, etc, etc?  Accounting major....finance major.  All go to school, are trained and benefit long term for it.

Are the student athletes not receiving training that allows them to earn more dollars when they leave, especially the small percentage some claim are worth more than their scholarship?  Why is that not factored in?  Conveniently....ignored.

I'm not ignoring it in the least.  Let the market decide.

[Nukem2]

I'm not ignoring it in the least.  Let the market decide.

The market for students w/o a degree is....?

[real chili 83]

"Fairness" is the most overused, waeponized word in the English language.

[MU82]

I am 100% taking that into account.

But I also see a nursing student, receiving nursing training, can earn money on Instagram for being an influencer or for a comedy station on YouTube.

Why not athletes?

Fair question.

Also, if a trombone company would pay a music student $$$ to use their brand of trombone, the trombonist could take the money without a problem. The money wouldn't go to the music professor or the music department instead.

[real chili 83]

So, if someone signs a contract, and gets consideration for the contract, and it's a legally enforceable able contact, what's the issue?

Shouldn't you either not sign, the contract, negotiate better terms, or find a better deal? 

I'm curious why other markets (Europe, etc) haven't stepped up to offer big bucks to our amateur athletes.  My guess is that any too 10 kid could go overseas and make huge $'s, BUT. CHOOSE NOT TO.

[Cheeks]

I am 100% taking that into account.

But I also see a nursing student, receiving nursing training, can earn money on Instagram for being an influencer or for a comedy station on YouTube.

Why not athletes?

For many reasons, including the nurse is not competing as an amateur or in athletic competition With a governing body trying fend off the massive abuses that boosters, fans, etc will do to get a competitive edge. 

Why not flip the script and ask why cannot the nurses get to perform at the Fiserv and be on tv, travel to Spain and France, etc?   Yes, life isn't always fair, the student athletes are getting an insanely great deal that 99% of the student body doesn't get. 

[Cheeks]

Actually there's loads of students that other would want their photo. At one point during my tenure we had a pro boxer and two Olympic speed skaters I know I'd want their photo more than 75% of the basketball players that came through during that same period.  Some schools have celebrity children (USC), porn stars (Duke, ASU), Instagram influencers, etc. and they are all profiting off their likeness. For someone that is usually very pro free market it's strange to me to see you arguing against any aspect of it.

Loads would still be a very small percentage

[Cheeks]

I'm not ignoring it in the least.  Let the market decide.

Should we have regulations and rules in business or just let the market decide?

[Cheeks]

Fair question.

Also, if a trombone company would pay a music student $$$ to use their brand of trombone, the trombonist could take the money without a problem. The money wouldn't go to the music professor or the music department instead.

Every student should get to go on an all expenses paid trip to Spain and France and bring their Trombones to play at small gyms......isn't also a fair question?  Why does the basketball team get so much?

[MU82]

Every student should get to go on an all expenses paid trip to Spain and France and bring their Trombones to play at small gyms......isn't also a fair question?  Why does the basketball team get so much?

Ignoring

[brewcity77]

For many reasons, including the nurse is not competing as an amateur or in athletic competition With a governing body trying fend off the massive abuses that boosters, fans, etc will do to get a competitive edge.

A system which is clearly not working. The recent trials, the scandals, the money changing hands from agents, shoe companies, assistant and head coaches, all that is clearly undermining the system. If you want to fix the system, the only way to do so is by getting rid of the sham that is amateurism.

The NCAA and the institutions that make it up are either not interested or not capable of fixing the system. Why is that the case? Is it incompetence, or because they don't want to change a system that financially benefits them to keep the labor force from partaking in the billions of dollars in profits? If it's incompetence, it's time to change the system. If it's because they don't want to share money with the people that earn them that money, it's time to change the system.

[79Warrior]

A system which is clearly not working. The recent trials, the scandals, the money changing hands from agents, shoe companies, assistant and head coaches, all that is clearly undermining the system. If you want to fix the system, the only way to do so is by getting rid of the sham that is amateurism.

The NCAA and the institutions that make it up are either not interested or not capable of fixing the system. Why is that the case? Is it incompetence, or because they don't want to change a system that financially benefits them to keep the labor force from partaking in the billions of dollars in profits? If it's incompetence, it's time to change the system. If it's because they don't want to share money with the people that earn them that money, it's time to change the system.

Agreed

[jesmu84]

For many reasons, including the nurse is not competing as an amateur or in athletic competition With a governing body trying fend off the massive abuses that boosters, fans, etc will do to get a competitive edge. 

Why not flip the script and ask why cannot the nurses get to perform at the Fiserv and be on tv, travel to Spain and France, etc?   Yes, life isn't always fair, the student athletes are getting an insanely great deal that 99% of the student body doesn't get.

But earlier you said athletes are allowed to get jobs. Those are also types of jobs. Why are those not allowed?

[The Sultan]

Should we have regulations and rules in business or just let the market decide?

Of course we should have regulations and rules.  The NCAA's are unreasonable.

[GooooMarquette]

"Fairness" is the most overused, waeponized word in the English language.

Yep. Life never has been fair, and it never will be. We live in a world where a chance encounter or a random social media post can make people rich, while people with years of training and experience live in cardboard boxes.

We The People need to provide basic human rights, treat each other with dignity and respect, and hopefully give everybody a fighting chance to better themselves. But still, life will always be inherently unfair. And in the great scheme of the world as a whole, scholarship athletes in the US have far less to complain about than billions of others.

[jesmu84]

Yep. Life never has been fair, and it never will be. We live in a world where a chance encounter or a random social media post can make people rich, while people with years of training and experience live in cardboard boxes.

We The People need to provide basic human rights, treat each other with dignity and respect, and hopefully give everybody a fighting chance to better themselves. But still, life will always be inherently unfair. And in the great scheme of the world as a whole, scholarship athletes in the US have far less to complain about than billions of others.

Life is fair.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it as fair as possible

[real chili 83]

Life is fair.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it as fair as possible

How do you define that?

[MU82]

And in the great scheme of the world as a whole, scholarship athletes in the US have far less to complain about than billions of others.

Well sure. But one can say this about lots of American minimum-wage workers, too.

[Nukem2]

Well sure. But one can say this about lots of American minimum-wage workers, too.

Umm, that's a huge huge stretch.....

[GooooMarquette]

Well sure. But one can say this about lots of American minimum-wage workers, too.

I seriously doubt a minimum wage worker could come anywhere close to funding the four-year cost of a full scholarship.