Hijacked Butler Thread

[Herman Cain]

This interview with JFB is 27 minutes long but well worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Alsk1lQ_no

[rocket surgeon]

  https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27092928/heat-finalizing-sign-trade-butler

curious, besides the money, the weather and the babes...what up in miami?

[Herman Cain]

  https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27092928/heat-finalizing-sign-trade-butler

curious, besides the money, the weather and the babes...what up in miami?

Lower taxes.

[Hards Alumni]

  https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27092928/heat-finalizing-sign-trade-butler

curious, besides the money, the weather and the babes...what up in miami?

What else would one need?

[4everwarriors]

Dude got married, hey?

[pbiflyer]

A long history of Marquette stars!

[Silent Verbal]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jimmy has a career in television when his playing days are over.  He's well-spoken, charismatic, and had an easy rapport with the guy who was interviewing him.  I know there are some folks here who think we were overrun with JUCO scum during the Buzz era, but some of those guys have turned into fine representatives of the program. 

[Cheeks]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jimmy has a career in television when his playing days are over.  He's well-spoken, charismatic, and had an easy rapport with the guy who was interviewing him.  I know there are some folks here who think we were overrun with JUCO scum during the Buzz era, but some of those guys have turned into fine representatives of the program.

Way to go Idaho

[Hards Alumni]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jimmy has a career in television when his playing days are over.  He's well-spoken, charismatic, and had an easy rapport with the guy who was interviewing him.  I know there are some folks here who think we were overrun with JUCO scum during the Buzz era, but some of those guys have turned into fine representatives of the program.

Suggest deleting "well-spoken" from your vocabulary.  I'm not saying this about you specifically, but it is a problematic compliment... and it gets used here a lot.

Put it this way.  Do our white players get referred to as "well-spoken" or "articulate"?

[Silent Verbal]

Suggest deleting "well-spoken" from your vocabulary.  I'm not saying this about you specifically, but it is a problematic compliment... and it gets used here a lot.

Put it this way.  Do our white players get referred to as "well-spoken" or "articulate"?

From what I saw of Sam's interviews, I thought he mostly sounded like a jock.  I remember when Brian Wardle filled in on the radio for a game one time and he was absolutely terrible.  Travis Diener was also a bad interview when he was here.  Wojo's head would explode if you put him in studio.  An example of a white athlete who's well-spoken?  John Smoltz.

Do our white players get referred to as well-spoken?  Sure.  If I see one who gives a good interview, I'll give him credit.  Matt Heldt seems okay from the clips I've seen.  Jocks don't always make for good speakers.  The ones who do stand out, regardless of race.

[Cheeks]

Suggest deleting "well-spoken" from your vocabulary.  I'm not saying this about you specifically, but it is a problematic compliment... and it gets used here a lot.

Put it this way.  Do our white players get referred to as "well-spoken" or "articulate"?

Problematic, please explain.

[Hards Alumni]

From what I saw of Sam's interviews, I thought he mostly sounded like a jock.  I remember when Brian Wardle filled in on the radio for a game one time and he was absolutely terrible.  Travis Diener was also a bad interview when he was here.  Wojo's head would explode if you put him in studio.  An example of a white athlete who's well-spoken?  John Smoltz.

Do our white players get referred to as well-spoken?  Sure.  If I see one who gives a good interview, I'll give him credit.  Matt Heldt seems okay from the clips I've seen.  Jocks don't always make for good speakers.  The ones who do stand out, regardless of race.

Okay then, I guess, take it personally.

[Hards Alumni]

Problematic, please explain.

https://www.theroot.com/he-s-so-articulate-what-that-really-means-1790874985

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html

https://newsone.com/3785854/stereotype-black-people-articulate-obama-cleveland-councilman-kevin-conwell/

http://affinitymagazine.us/2016/12/28/why-black-people-are-tired-of-being-called-articulate/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDNbC-MzzLw

If you need further help, I suggest a therapist.

[Lennys Tap]

Suggest deleting "well-spoken" from your vocabulary.  I'm not saying this about you specifically, but it is a problematic compliment... and it gets used here a lot.

Put it this way.  Do our white players get referred to as "well-spoken" or "articulate"?

Hards - I get what you're saying - as an example, that tape of Joe Biden trying to "compliment" Barak Obama is positively cringe worthy. That said, I didn't get the same vibe reading what Research wrote. Black or white, being "well spoken" or articulate is a major asset for a career in broadcasting (sports or otherwise). When I think articulate, for example, both Jim Nantz and Mike Tirico come to mind. I hope both would take it as a compliment - I know I would if someone said the same of me.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Problematic, please explain.

Well spoken is a compliment that is usually only given to people of color. You don't hear many people say it about white people. Now before you go "well back in 1998 I said this white person was well spoken" it doesn't matter. It's not about you or any person specifically, it's just something that has happened in our culture.

The reason it is problematic is because if it is a compliment only said about people of color, the implication is that it expected for a white person to be well spoken but it is a pleasant surprise when a person of color is well spoken.

Now you can debate this all you want and that's fine. We are allowed to have our own opinions on the matter. But if your goal is to compliment the person, keep in mind that while you may intend a compliment, your impact may be offensive. A compliment should be about making the other person feel good, not about making yourself feel good. So why use a compliment that you know may end up making the other person feel bad?

[Cheeks]

https://www.theroot.com/he-s-so-articulate-what-that-really-means-1790874985

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html

https://newsone.com/3785854/stereotype-black-people-articulate-obama-cleveland-councilman-kevin-conwell/

http://affinitymagazine.us/2016/12/28/why-black-people-are-tired-of-being-called-articulate/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDNbC-MzzLw

If you need further help, I suggest a therapist.

Thanks for clarifying with such a well spoken, properly laid out and clean rebuttal.

[jsglow]

JFB is so freakin' cool.

[MakeItRain11]

Just waiting for someone to do the Chris Rock routine....

[Cheeks]

Just waiting for someone to do the Chris Rock routine....

Bingo

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Hards - I get what you're saying - as an example, that tape of Joe Biden trying to "compliment" Barak Obama is positively cringe worthy. That said, I didn't get the same vibe reading what Research wrote. Black or white, being "well spoken" or articulate is a major asset for a career in broadcasting (sports or otherwise). When I think articulate, for example, both Jim Nantz and Mike Tirico come to mind. I hope both would take it as a compliment - I know I would if someone said the same of me.

I agree with you 100% Lenny. I could clearly tell RR's intent was positive. If Hards had come at him and called him a racist or a bad person he would have totally been off base. But fair or not, "well spoken" and "articulate" have become dog whistles in our culture that have problematic implications. I think it is similar to the idea of saying a black athlete is "strong like a gorilla." An athlete's strength is a major asset in his/her career and the phrase is intended to compliment, but in our culture we know that comparing a black person to a monkey in any way is not going to be taken positively. I took Hards post as a "hey, so you know...trying to help" type post, rather than as a condemnation.

[Skatastrophy]

Or calling a white player "deceptively quick."

[Hards Alumni]

I agree with you 100% Lenny. I could clearly tell RR's intent was positive. If Hards had come at him and called him a racist or a bad person he would have totally been off base. But fair or not, "well spoken" and "articulate" have become dog whistles in our culture that have problematic implications. I think it is similar to the idea of saying a black athlete is "strong like a gorilla." An athlete's strength is a major asset in his/her career and the phrase is intended to compliment, but in our culture we know that comparing a black person to a monkey in any way is not going to be taken positively. I took Hards post as a "hey, so you know...trying to help" type post, rather than as a condemnation.

Thank you.

[Hards Alumni]

Or calling a white player "deceptively quick."

Bingo.

[MUfan12]

Or calling a white player "deceptively quick."

A real gym rat. Cerebral player.

[Lennys Tap]

I agree with you 100% Lenny. I could clearly tell RR's intent was positive. If Hards had come at him and called him a racist or a bad person he would have totally been off base. But fair or not, "well spoken" and "articulate" have become dog whistles in our culture that have problematic implications. I think it is similar to the idea of saying a black athlete is "strong like a gorilla." An athlete's strength is a major asset in his/her career and the phrase is intended to compliment, but in our culture we know that comparing a black person to a monkey in any way is not going to be taken positively. I took Hards post as a "hey, so you know...trying to help" type post, rather than as a condemnation.

The problem (it seems to me) is that there are tons of ways to compliment an athlete on his strength, for example, without referencing gorillas or monkeys. That such a comparison should be off limits is obvious to me. And certainly when some people use words like well spoken or articulate to describe a black person it is a back handed compliment of surprise that denigrates blacks in general. But should we let a some clumsy or even racist people deny blacks the right to be complimented sincerely as articulate? Is that a positive distinction (being well spoken) that only whites should enjoy? What inoffensive substitute can we use to give people of color their just due? Granted, I'm old, but the black and white people I know consider "articulate" to be a positive and ignore the morons who use it sarcastically.