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Author Topic: UConn to BE Rumors  (Read 35336 times)

dannyb334

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #475 on: October 10, 2019, 01:44:41 PM »
Chaifetz is on campus. They used to play downtown in the Blues arena.  They drew well back in the mid 90's but many of those tickets were free or heavily discounted.   SLU will always be second or even third when it comes to college hoops in STL compared to Mizzou and Illinois.  Kansas has a big following there too. So "market size" isn't going to really be advantageous to their cause.

Mizzou and Illinois hoops aren't that heavily followed in the St. Louis area. Stations give them a little airtime, mostly because they're the "nearby" power-conference schools that have some alumni in the area. I wouldn't even put it on the level of UW-Madison fans in Milwaukee. Most people there are not Kansas fans--natural Mizzou rival. Adding SLU to the BE still adds another revenue market in an area that wants basketball, but doesn't have a huge reason to follow it.

Would I rather the BE add a Gonzaga or ND? Sure. But Gonzaga most likely isn't feasible and I'd be surprised to see ND come back. SLU is the next best option.

shoothoops

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #476 on: October 10, 2019, 01:48:26 PM »
Chaifetz is on campus. They used to play downtown in the Blues arena.  They drew well back in the mid 90's but many of those tickets were free or heavily discounted.   SLU will always be second or even third when it comes to college hoops in STL compared to Mizzou and Illinois.  Kansas has a big following there too. So "market size" isn't going to really be advantageous to their cause.

Oh, and that "trip" to the Elite Eight was where there were only 16 teams.

This goes with any state school vs urban school. Wisconsin will always have more fans than Marquette. (That doesn’t mean Marquette cannot carve out its place too) Ohio St. will always have more fans than Xavier. (It doesn’t mean Xavier can’t carve out its place too) Nebraska has not been frequently good which helps Creighton.

It’s about being competitive on the court and sustaining that over time. If they can do that, they will have plenty of interest and do quite well. That’s really what it’s about.

shoothoops

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #477 on: October 10, 2019, 02:09:05 PM »
Mizzou and Illinois hoops aren't that heavily followed in the St. Louis area. Stations give them a little airtime, mostly because they're the "nearby" power-conference schools that have some alumni in the area. I wouldn't even put it on the level of UW-Madison fans in Milwaukee. Most people there are not Kansas fans--natural Mizzou rival. Adding SLU to the BE still adds another revenue market in an area that wants basketball, but doesn't have a huge reason to follow it.

Would I rather the BE add a Gonzaga or ND? Sure. But Gonzaga most likely isn't feasible and I'd be surprised to see ND come back. SLU is the next best option.

This is it pretty much right here. Everyone wants a finished product. The current Big East is not likely to get a finished product.

The notion that St. Louis is a KU hoops market is odd. You may as well call it a big Kentucky market too. Whenever Kentucky gets to play NCAA games in St. Louis, it is a sea of blue just like many other places, because, it’s Kentucky. And it isn’t far away. KU will draw well if their NCAA’s are played there. But day to day, no. KU and Mizzou split some of the KC market but not St. Louis. It is located much closer to KC than Mizzou. One of Mizzou’s challenges is that it is not a quick 40 minute ride like KC to Lawrence. It also not quick from St. Louis. But they are the state school and they get first coverage in St. Louis. They will be 2nd to SLU whenever SLU is good. This is no different in Milwaukee.

Mizzou will lead all local sports stuff just like Wisconsin does in Milwaukee, especially if they are good or decent. So, right now as we speak, first highlights go to Mizzou football. Next comes top teams/games, also SEC football games, then maybe Illinois football later in the sports. If SLU is ever very good at hoops, it can and does lead the college part of the sportscast.

If SLU is good, many local media will go and cover. If they are not, just a few.

Someone earlier mentioned the Big 12 vs SEC. The cities, such as Metro St. Louis strongly prefers SEC to Big 12. Mizzou is a bit unique in that it has a variety of fan bases. The urban metros of St. Louis and KC are very different than other parts of the state.

As for SLU, up until now they have not been a program that has gone long stretches with sustained success like a Gonzaga in WCC or Creighton in MVC. They have shown flashes of what they could be. And that is why they are often in the discussion. They are flashes with potential to this point.

They are probably the safest bet of any future league candidate if you can’t get a higher profile team such as ND OR Gonzaga (neither of which are likely to happen especially ND)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 02:13:19 PM by shoothoops »

brewcity77

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #478 on: October 10, 2019, 02:40:01 PM »
This is it pretty much right here. Everyone wants a finished product. The current Big East is not likely to get a finished product.

I don't think that's the case at all. Certainly not for me. I don't want any product. We don't need anyone else. 11 teams, 20-game schedule, there's no need whatsoever to add to that. The only way we consider anyone is if they are an undeniable must-add (Gonzaga, ND) or the landscape has changed so much that 11 teams is no longer viable. I don't see the latter happening, so VCU, SLU, Dayton, all the other "whatabout" candidates, forget them. I just don't think they add any real value.

It's must-add or nothing for me.

shoothoops

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #479 on: October 10, 2019, 03:02:30 PM »
I don't think that's the case at all. Certainly not for me. I don't want any product. We don't need anyone else. 11 teams, 20-game schedule, there's no need whatsoever to add to that. The only way we consider anyone is if they are an undeniable must-add (Gonzaga, ND) or the landscape has changed so much that 11 teams is no longer viable. I don't see the latter happening, so VCU, SLU, Dayton, all the other "whatabout" candidates, forget them. I just don't think they add any real value.

It's must-add or nothing for me.

1) I was speaking with reference to “if” the Big East added a team(s)...that of course everyone would prefer a finished product. I don’t see a knock your socks off choice out there that would choose the Big East. I didn’t really comment either way about not adding a team. To this point not adding an additional team has been the move. (until UConn happened of course)

2) I think the 3 programs you just mentioned are very different from one another. And what I did say was at this time of those choices, SLU would be the safest add.

Uncle Rico

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #480 on: October 10, 2019, 03:02:49 PM »
Big East has set itself up to by a predator instead of prey in the conference realignment game. No need to rush into anything at this point. You sit back and watch how things play out in the in next few years. I'm not sure 5 power football conferences is sustainable in the future, I think eventually one of them blinks and gets divided up among the other 4. You never know what could happen in a situation like that.

That’s the inevitable end game.  I would have pegged the ACC when rumors were circulating Diamond Jim Delany was sniffing around Georgia Tech, UNC, Duke and Virginia.

Now?  I’m not sure.  The seemingly logical loser is the Pac-12 given their recent ineptitude in hoops and football and failing TV deal.  My hunch is the Big Ten takes another run at Texas and Oklahoma and then all hell breaks loose if they jump 
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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #481 on: October 10, 2019, 03:19:21 PM »
We got Yale?  That will certainly help the academic reputation of the conference, though their basketball has been a little lackluster.

Yale has been to the NCAAs in 2016 & 2019 including advancing to the second round in 2016.

Must have meant University of New Haven who plans to upgrade to Div 1 like St. Thomas.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #482 on: October 10, 2019, 03:24:58 PM »
They're fine, but Georgetown covers the DMV market, VCU is a public university, and they don't bring the kind of value a UConn, ND, or Gonzaga does.

If we need to add, they'd be on the shortlist, but I don't see a need to add. If a school isn't a home run, no question about it addition, then I'm not really interested. I'd put them in the SLU, Dayton, Temple, Memphis, Wichita State pile of "if we have to, we'll consider them" schools. But we don't, so I wouldn't.


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Scoop Snoop

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #483 on: October 10, 2019, 03:34:38 PM »

I'm not sure how markets are determined, but I lived in Richmond for a year and NOBODY talked about Georgetown when college sports came up. People talked Va Tech, UVA, VCU and Richmond, and most out of state mentions were for ACC schools in North Carolina like Duke, UNC, etc.

So while network honchos might think Gtown covers that market, the people in Richmond don't seem to know that.

You nailed it. 22 years in Richmond for me + another 16 in the western part of the state. The DC area and the rest of Virginia might as well be 1000 miles apart. And they HATE each other. I get why many here do not want VCU (I do not want anybody else added right now and maybe not for a very long time) but hey- at least the local Richmond community is behind the team. Did a Milwaukee area strip joint offer Buzz a free lap dance if he stayed in Milwaukee? That's the offer Shaka had in Richmond if he passed on the Texas job. Considering the way things have worked out for him (except financially), he should have taken the free lap dance.   
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TAMU Garcia

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #484 on: October 10, 2019, 04:38:48 PM »
That’s the inevitable end game.  I would have pegged the ACC when rumors were circulating Diamond Jim Delany was sniffing around Georgia Tech, UNC, Duke and Virginia.

Now?  I’m not sure.  The seemingly logical loser is the Pac-12 given their recent ineptitude in hoops and football and failing TV deal.  My hunch is the Big Ten takes another run at Texas and Oklahoma and then all hell breaks loose if they jump

That's what I think as well. PAC 12 should be the loser based on performance...but I don't think they will be because they are geographically insulated. The SEC and B1G have all the $$$ so they are safe. It's gotta be the ACC or the Big 12 (or nobody) and I think the B12 blinks first.
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MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #485 on: October 11, 2019, 08:34:36 AM »
From today's New Haven Register.

https://www.ctinsider.com/uconn/nhregister/article/UConn-s-return-raises-some-concerns-with-Big-14509966.php?sid=5baaacf72ddf9c545d737065&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CT_NHR_Insider#photo-18413198



UConn’s return raises some concerns with Big East basketball coaches
By David Borges Oct. 10, 2019 Updated: Oct. 10, 2019 6:13 p.m.

NEW YORK — Jay Wright loves the move. Patrick Ewing doesn’t seem to care too much either way.

Kevin Willard seems to approve ... sort of. Ed Cooley? Let’s just say he’s not necessarily rolling out a red carpet from Providence to Storrs for UConn to return to the Big East Conference.

Back in June, the presidents of the 10 current Big East schools voted unanimously to admit UConn back into the league. But if the vote had been up to the league’s coaches, there might not have been such a mandate. That seemed to be the general tenor at Thursday’s Big East Media Day at Madison Square Garden.

With two of the past four national championships (both won by Wright at Villanova) under its belt, the Big East didn’t necessarily need UConn back. Still, despite three straight losing seasons, the Huskies, with four national titles in the past 20 years, will certainly bring added sizzle when it rejoins the conference next season.

However, UConn’s return, after seven years in the American Athletic Conference, could make things tougher for certain league schools on the recruiting trail. Particularly programs like Providence, Seton Hall and St. John’s — East Coast schools who are already recruiting against the Huskies.

Now, UConn can sell the Big East as part of its recruiting pitch.

“I can’t tell recruits, ‘You know what it’s like to play at Tulane and East Carolina and those places?,’ ” 10th-year Seton Hall coach Kevin Willard said, seemingly half-jokingly. “It doesn’t work anymore. To be honest, it didn’t matter what conference they’re in. They always had great history in this building, in this area. Kemba Walker’s a New York City guard. It adds a different dynamic and layer to the recruiting thing, but they were always gonna be a tough beat.”

The Huskies’ first Class of 2020 commit, national top-75 guard Andre Jackson, told Hearst Connecticut Media last week that UConn’s return to the Big East definitely helped his decision.

“I think it’s gonna be a bear to deal with,” said Cooley, entering his ninth year as Providence’s head coach. “They have a very good staff there, and Danny (Hurley) is one of the better coaches in the country. Regionally, with Providence College and Seton Hall, in particular, in the Big East — with a little bit of St. John’s — we’re gonna have our hands full when it comes to competing against them.”

In fact, Cooley seemed to think the Big East did UConn a favor by taking it back in.

“I think we gave Connecticut new life,” he said. “We gave their fan base new life. They finally came to the conclusion that they are a basketball-centric school. They poured all their money in football, and in my opinion, it was going into a hole.”

“When you’ve become a national brand in one sport and try to parlay into something it isn’t,” Cooley added, “shame on you for making the decision upfront.”

While Ewing was leading Georgetown to three national championship game appearances in four years in the early 1980s and dominating the center position as it hasn’t been since, UConn was still a Big East doormat. The Huskies didn’t become a national powerhouse until nearly a decade after Ewing had graduated.

Now in his third year as Georgetown’s head coach, Ewing didn’t seem too focused on UConn’s return to the league.

“Thats a long way away,” he said. “Right now, I’m worried about this year.”

“It definitely helps the league,” he added. “They can sell the Big East, but all the other teams in the Big East can sell their conference. It is what it is. They’re here, they’re here to stay, and it’s our job as coaches to recruit and try to get the best players we can for our programs. And the players, it’s their job to compete and play against whoever’s there.”

Willard, of course, coaches Hurley’s alma mater and sits smack dab in the UConn coach’s recruiting wheelhouse of northern New Jersey. He seemed to recognize that, while UConn’s return is overall good for the league, it might not be the best for Seton Hall.

“No one asked me, but I would not have given them the vote,” he said, again seemingly half-jokinly. “I would have told them to stay away. Just because I know what type of job Danny’s gonna do. I know what a great program it is. We’re now going to a 20-game schedule in this league, so it’s gonna make the conference better and harder. But I think overall, everyone’s excited to bring them back.”

Then there’s Wright, the dean of Big East coaches and owner of those two national championship rings. Is he worried that the Huskies can steal his program’s thunder as the undisputed kings of the Big East?

Not at all.

“I think everything’s positive, I really do,” said Wright, who’s entering his 19th season as Villanova’s head coach. “I don’t think we would have unanimously supported their entrance if it wasn’t all positive. I look back to the years when we went to 16 (teams) and we all thought, ‘Oh no, we’re gonna eat each other up.’ And what it really did was make us all better. We got 11 teams in the tournament (in 2011).”

Wright noted that, back in the late 1980s — before he was hired as a Villanova assistant — players that wanted to go to then-powerhouses Georgetown and Syracuse often wound up at Villanova when there simply wasn’t enough room. They simply wanted to play in the Big East.

He believes something similar will happen now.

“I think it enhances the brand,” he said. “In recruiting, Connecticut will get involved with all the guys we’re all involved with, and we all compete against each other. It’s just gonna increase the pool.”

Wright added: “There will be kids growing up in Connecticut, following the Big East, and they might wind up playing at Georgetown. That’s what happened in the old Big East, and I think the same thing’s gonna happen.”

RIM RATTLINGS

 Georgetown sophomore point guard James Akinjo had committed to UConn in the fall of 2017, but de-committed after Kevin Ollie was fired in March, 2018. Hurley and his staff tried to re-recruit him, but Ewing had already swooped in.

“Coach Pat made it a real easy decision,” he said. “After I de-committed from UConn, he showed the most interest in me and made sure I felt really at home with Georgetown.”

In fact, Ewing was on a flight to the West Coast when he learned that Akinjo had been released from his national letter of intent. He had the flight diverted so that he could fly straight to Akinjo’s home town of Oakland.

“He wanted to be on the East Coast,” said Ewing, “and we needed a point guard.”

 St. John’s Mustapha Heron, who grew up in West Haven and Waterbury, was named to the preseason All-Big East Second Team.

“It’s an honor to have your name mentioned,” he said. “We’ve got great players in this conference. I’m definitely shooting for first team, so just gotta go out every night, play hard and try to win games.”

Heron transferred from Auburn to St. John’s last season and got an NCAA waiver to play right away. He said he considered tranferring to UConn, but the Huskies had run out of scholarships at the time.

 Bridgeport’s Quincy McKnight enters his senior year at Seton Hall after averaging 8.9 points per game last season. McKnight played his first two seasons at Sacred Heart, where he averaged 18.9 points per game as a sophomore.

“I thought he had a phenomenal year last year,” Willard said. “He was our backbone on the defensive end, he did a great job in leadership. But I think everyone’s gonna see, almost what he was at Sacred Heart, a little more of a scorer. Just because he’s a little more confident in what he can do, a little more confident in what we need him to do. And I think transfers, the second year after they sit out, they always have a good year.”

Bloomfield’s Tyrique Jones, a senior at Xavier, could face his hometown school this season in the Charleston Classic. UConn would play Xavier if both teams win (or lose) their first games of the tournament.

“That would be kind of cool,” said Jones. “I love UConn basketball. I always wanted to go to UConn, but the opportunity at Xavier presented itself and I feel like I made the right decision. Kinda bummed that next year we get to play at UConn, but I’m just happy that UConn is back in the Big East. It’s a great conference.”

david.borges@hearstmediact.com

SaveOD238

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #486 on: October 11, 2019, 12:37:17 PM »
However, UConn’s return, after seven years in the American Athletic Conference, could make things tougher for certain league schools on the recruiting trail. Particularly programs like Providence, Seton Hall and St. John’s — East Coast schools who are already recruiting against the Huskies.

Now, UConn can sell the Big East as part of its recruiting pitch.

“I can’t tell recruits, ‘You know what it’s like to play at Tulane and East Carolina and those places?,’ ” 10th-year Seton Hall coach Kevin Willard said, seemingly half-jokingly. “It doesn’t work anymore. To be honest, it didn’t matter what conference they’re in. They always had great history in this building, in this area. Kemba Walker’s a New York City guard. It adds a different dynamic and layer to the recruiting thing, but they were always gonna be a tough beat.”

I found this part pretty eye-opening.  But it shouldn't have been a surprise.  UConn, when they are good, sucks up all of the air in the lower-New-England room.  Providence and Seton Hall are right to be petrified of losing recruits to the Huskies, now that they are back in the Big East.  It's really no surprise that the Pirates and Friars thrived while UConn languished in AAC purgatory, even though neither was particularly good for the rest of UConn's great run in the 90s and 2000s

cheebs09

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #487 on: October 11, 2019, 12:41:53 PM »
I thinking Cooley’s comments make him look a little silly. It’s not like Providence has been some powerhouse recently.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #488 on: October 11, 2019, 01:57:46 PM »
Jesus Christ Cooley and Willard.  I'm sure you preach to your players about overcoming adversity, and then the first thing you do is whine when a school is added whom everybody believes is good for the conference?  Suck it up and grow a pair. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Billy Hoyle

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #489 on: October 11, 2019, 02:03:00 PM »
Jesus Christ Cooley and Willard.  I'm sure you preach to your players about overcoming adversity, and then the first thing you do is whine when a school is added whom everybody believes is good for the conference?  Suck it up and grow a pair.

I fail to see how any of this is "whining" and not stating facts:

“I think it’s gonna be a bear to deal with,” said Cooley, entering his ninth year as Providence’s head coach. “They have a very good staff there, and Danny (Hurley) is one of the better coaches in the country. Regionally, with Providence College and Seton Hall, in particular, in the Big East — with a little bit of St. John’s — we’re gonna have our hands full when it comes to competing against them.”

In fact, Cooley seemed to think the Big East did UConn a favor by taking it back in.

“I think we gave Connecticut new life,” he said. “We gave their fan base new life. They finally came to the conclusion that they are a basketball-centric school. They poured all their money in football, and in my opinion, it was going into a hole.”

“When you’ve become a national brand in one sport and try to parlay into something it isn’t,” Cooley added, “shame on you for making the decision upfront.”
What, you still throwing up bricks? What is this, a Masons convention? Clank, clank! I need, like, a welding torch to play in this league! I got an idea, let's just stop right now and gather up all these bricks and let's build a shelter for the homeless so maybe your mother will have a place to stay

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #490 on: October 11, 2019, 02:05:27 PM »
Dude, I'm in preseason mode here.  Gotta get my edge.
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4everDawson

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #491 on: October 11, 2019, 02:08:59 PM »
I just got an inspiration.  Let's get Gonzaga for men's basketball only, and have DePaul go independent for men's basketball only.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #492 on: October 11, 2019, 02:12:23 PM »
I just got an inspiration.  Let's get Gonzaga for men's basketball only, and have DePaul go independent for men's basketball only.

I like that...even better, instead of cashing NCAA MBB shares that they never once contributed to in their time in the BE, they waive them and those are redistributed to the other nine members.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #493 on: October 11, 2019, 02:27:29 PM »
At its prime (2005-2013), the Big East was THE elite men's basketball conference in the country.  With UConn in tow, and with the success that Villanova has had (along with nine of ten teams making the tournament since the reorganization, the league still is a top basketball conference nationally.  The position where the league can improve upon the prime version is eliminating the continued bottom feeders the league had annually.  No more Rutgers.  No more USF.  No more DePaul (in its former form).  Even Seton Hall and Providence were punching bags when the league had 16 members. 

To take the next step, the Big East needs ALL of its members pushing in the right direction and play at a competitive level.  UConn can definitely add to that.  With it make recruiting in the Northeast tougher?  Absolutely.  But it will also attract more high-level recruits from that portion of the country and elsewhere, not to mention adding more attendance to our league's inventory (and conference tournament) and our viewership. 

The Big East can stand pat at 11 more the foreseeable future.  There are no other present options that can add value like UConn can.  In 5-10 years, and if they manage some success on the court, the league can look at VCU, SLU and Dayton if the Fox determines that they would add financial value to our package.