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Author Topic: UConn to BE Rumors  (Read 31589 times)

brewcity77

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #400 on: August 07, 2019, 06:14:28 AM »
St. Louis is the Baltimore of the Midwest: has baseball, a lot of history, but much of the city has been abandoned. STL has lost 65% of its population since 1950 and will fall under 300,000 at the next census.

Census population is meaningless, market size is what matters. Compare Atlanta and Milwaukee. Atlanta is the 8th largest media market and Milwaukee is 35th. And yet Milwaukee has nearly 100,000 more residents in the city proper.

St Louis matters not because of city size but the 21st largest media market.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #401 on: August 07, 2019, 07:56:03 AM »
But really media market is not the top reason schools are invited to join.  If that were the case, SLU would have received the invite long before Creighton.  It's not unimportant, but resources devoted to basketball and fan support are far more important factors.
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Cheeks

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #402 on: August 07, 2019, 08:46:20 AM »
St. Louis is the Baltimore of the Midwest: has baseball, a lot of history, but much of the city has been abandoned. STL has lost 65% of its population since 1950 and will fall under 300,000 at the next census.

That’s a burn on St Louis, having been to both cities many times I’ll take St. Louis over Baltimore for everything except crab cakes.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #403 on: August 07, 2019, 09:58:54 AM »
Census population is meaningless, market size is what matters. Compare Atlanta and Milwaukee. Atlanta is the 8th largest media market and Milwaukee is 35th. And yet Milwaukee has nearly 100,000 more residents in the city proper.

St Louis matters not because of city size but the 21st largest media market.

What good is being in a “media market” when you barely register in the media and public consciousness? SLU falls behind Missouri, Illinois and Kansas in STL.
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brewcity77

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #404 on: August 07, 2019, 10:05:18 AM »
What good is being in a “media market” when you barely register in the media and public consciousness? SLU falls behind Missouri, Illinois and Kansas in STL.

FFS I'm not endorsing SLU. How much does St. Thomas register in the Minneapolis/St. Paul media market? My point was that St. Thomas' position in the 15th largest media market isn't that important with no track record of success and IF we were strictly looking at media market size there are other, more established programs in top-30 markets.

Then when DFW noted St. Louis' population size in the city proper, I pointed out that market size is not tied to city population size. I don't give a goddamn about SLU. Nothing I said indicates otherwise. That wasn't even remotely the point of the post.

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #405 on: August 07, 2019, 10:05:54 AM »
What good is being in a “media market” when you barely register in the media and public consciousness? SLU falls behind Missouri, Illinois and Kansas in STL.

Good question.  Looking at you Rutgers.

asdfasdf

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #406 on: August 07, 2019, 10:12:37 AM »
I'm thinking out loud here, but does metropolitan size really matter that much any more (when it comes to adding a new BEast team)? The size of a city/metro area was important during the last conference realignment when the huge conferences were making conference-specific cable channels and wanted their share of cable subscriptions. With people cutting the cord does it still benefit conferences to have their own channel? Does the Big10 make as much money per subscriber from Spectrum as they do from, say, YouTube TV or SlingTV?

shoothoops

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #407 on: August 07, 2019, 10:16:58 AM »
SLU?

Top 20 market. 3 million people. $100 million facilities. Actual aggressive hoops boosters these days. (Richard Chaifetz etc...) Their long time school President retired several years ago. He was a big obstacle with their hoops commitment for 25 years. Times have changed.  Fr. Lannon for example, former Creighton President was very popular and had good people skills. He was a former VP at Marquette. Former MU Dean of Art and Sciences Fr. Schlegel (RIP) was also Creighton President in recent memory. Relationships matter, among other things. The current SLU President is not a rah rah sports type but a significant upgrade to the past.

When SLU is good, the entire Metro gets behind the team as it did in the Majerus and Spoon era. They were getting 17k a game when in a league with Marquette etc...

They would do just fine in the Big East.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 10:21:11 AM by shoothoops »

brewcity77

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #408 on: August 07, 2019, 10:20:50 AM »
I'm thinking out loud here, but does metropolitan size really matter that much any more (when it comes to adding a new BEast team)? The size of a city/metro area was important during the last conference realignment when the huge conferences were making conference-specific cable channels and wanted their share of cable subscriptions. With people cutting the cord does it still benefit conferences to have their own channel? Does the Big10 make as much money per subscriber from Spectrum as they do from, say, YouTube TV or SlingTV?

That's a good question and I'd be curious to know the answer, but so far, while cord cutting is on the increase, as of a year ago cable subscribers still outnumbered cord-cutters by nearly 6-1.

But however the money is disbursed, the larger the audience a program has, the larger the demand will be. So if FS1, for instance, was weighing large vs small media market programs, the larger one will likely be more attractive on the basis of having more regional subscribers in that area.

Outside of the state schools that generally have broad appeal, I have to imagine population density will still matter if people are cutting the cord for packaged rather than a la carte programming, and the highest population density will be in those metropolitan markets.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #409 on: August 07, 2019, 10:26:53 AM »
Good question.  Looking at you Rutgers.

Not sure on the exact details, but my understanding is that adding Rutgers somehow allowed the B1G to get the B1G Network onto all basic cable packages in the tri-state area. So even if no one is watching them, Rutgers added millions of people paying for the B1G Network.
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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #410 on: August 07, 2019, 10:27:40 AM »
SLU?

Top 20 market. 3 million people. $100 million facilities. Actual aggressive hoops boosters these days. (Richard Chaifetz etc...) Their long time school President retired several years ago. He was a big obstacle with their hoops commitment for 25 years. Times have changed.  Fr. Lannon for example, former Creighton President was very popular and had good people skills. He was a former VP at Marquette. Former MU Dean of Art and Sciences Fr. Schlegel (RIP) was also Creighton President in recent memory. Relationships matter, among other things. The current SLU President is not a rah rah sports type but a significant upgrade to the past.

When SLU is good, the entire Metro gets behind the team as it did in the Majerus and Spoon era. They were getting 17k a game when in a league with Marquette etc...

They would do just fine in the Big East.

I think SLU would have been a natural choice for the NBE had the conference formed at a different time.  Unfortunately when the C7 was looking for other members, they were just starting a mini-turn around under Majerus at the same time the University was undergoing turmoil.  Xavier was always a shoo-in.  Creighton was trending upward, had solid attendance history and used their Jesuit connections well.  Butler was coming off of two recent Final Fours built on a decade plus of success.

SLU was left out and likely will never be let in.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #411 on: August 07, 2019, 10:37:40 AM »
Not sure on the exact details, but my understanding is that adding Rutgers somehow allowed the B1G to get the B1G Network onto all basic cable packages in the tri-state area. So even if no one is watching them, Rutgers added millions of people paying for the B1G Network.

A lot of Big 14 alumni in the northeast could now watch Penn State and Michigan State play sports
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shoothoops

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #412 on: August 07, 2019, 10:49:24 AM »
I think SLU would have been a natural choice for the NBE had the conference formed at a different time.  Unfortunately when the C7 was looking for other members, they were just starting a mini-turn around under Majerus at the same time the University was undergoing turmoil.  Xavier was always a shoo-in.  Creighton was trending upward, had solid attendance history and used their Jesuit connections well.  Butler was coming off of two recent Final Fours built on a decade plus of success.

SLU was left out and likely will never be let in.

Yep timing matters. Coaching hires/admin/boosters matter. Majerus was an elite x’s and o’s/player development coach. Just give him good enough players. Ford is solid with recruiting and is very good at selling the program etc...successful coaching continuity, stringing years together makes a difference. Brad Soderberg, good guy, very good defensive x’s o’s player development, but not a guy who can do a lot with little and not a public face for a program. UVA assistant recent years has been perfect for him. Crews was a disaster with recruiting and Rick’s friend. Jim Whitesell, new Buffalo coach was a nice assistant there as was Moser. .....SLU did fine in Great Midwest, Conference USA. I’ve been a long time Marquette season ticket holder but Majerus era SLU vs Shaka Smart VCU games were as packed and loud as an MU game I’ve attended.

I know that many higher profile former and current NBA players would be very supportive of SLU if SLU were in a high tier league. Larry Hughes, Jayson Tatum, Bradley Beal, etc..even the non-alums. Hughes, Anthony Bonner etc...already spend a lot of time around their teams.  A lot of them are friends.

It takes preparation and a little luck to meet opportunity.

I always know when someone is not familiar with that market when they say, oh that’s a good baseball town.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 10:51:21 AM by shoothoops »

#UnleashCain

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #413 on: August 07, 2019, 11:04:51 AM »
Good point, that's why we kicked them both out of the league and replaced them with Wichita State and VCU.

I mean.... Yes?

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #414 on: August 07, 2019, 12:14:52 PM »
Not sure on the exact details, but my understanding is that adding Rutgers somehow allowed the B1G to get the B1G Network onto all basic cable packages in the tri-state area. So even if no one is watching them, Rutgers added millions of people paying for the B1G Network.

This.  Why Rutgers was a choice over UConn.  There are 9 million people in New Jersey vs. 3.5 million in Connecticut.  That's a heck of a lot more cable subscribers for the B1G Network.

Herman Cain

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #415 on: August 07, 2019, 12:45:59 PM »
Not sure on the exact details, but my understanding is that adding Rutgers somehow allowed the B1G to get the B1G Network onto all basic cable packages in the tri-state area. So even if no one is watching them, Rutgers added millions of people paying for the B1G Network.
This.  Why Rutgers was a choice over UConn.  There are 9 million people in New Jersey vs. 3.5 million in Connecticut.  That's a heck of a lot more cable subscribers for the B1G Network.
Rutgers had several positive factors in its favor.
1. Rutgers  brings both the NY /NJ market for media into play, but also the Philadelphia market. 
2. Rutgers football had been a solid program at The Big East level. NJ is a very competitive high school football area which produces a lot of talent which the Big Ten wants a piece of . It is football media that matters .
3. Rutgers has considerable respect in the academic community . Big Ten University Presidents welcomed the addition.
4. Rutgers was paired with Maryland entrance and together the two presented a very compelling media story in mid atlantic

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #416 on: August 07, 2019, 02:24:04 PM »
Rutgers had several positive factors in its favor.
1. Rutgers  brings both the NY /NJ market for media into play, but also the Philadelphia market. 
2. Rutgers football had been a solid program at The Big East level. NJ is a very competitive high school football area which produces a lot of talent which the Big Ten wants a piece of . It is football media that matters .
3. Rutgers has considerable respect in the academic community . Big Ten University Presidents welcomed the addition.
4. Rutgers was paired with Maryland entrance and together the two presented a very compelling media story in mid atlantic


FIFY

#3 is relevant in that there is a certain bar B1G schools need to meet academically, but Rutgers was brought in for the TV money, not because it is a nice story or that they were any good at football.
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Herman Cain

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #417 on: August 07, 2019, 04:09:54 PM »
FIFY

#3 is relevant in that there is a certain bar B1G schools need to meet academically, but Rutgers was brought in for the TV money, not because it is a nice story or that they were any good at football.
Those were elements of the case that made them a better candidate  Big Ten than U Conn, which is what the discussion was in earlier in the thread.  Yes, it was all about the media, but they also needed point 4 which was Maryland media market. No Maryland , No Rutgers. 

MU82

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #418 on: August 07, 2019, 07:35:26 PM »
Simon Templar, St. Francis of Assisi and a team of Saint Bernards have as good a chance of joining the Big East as St. Thomas does.
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MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #419 on: August 07, 2019, 07:58:30 PM »
I was reading something over vacation that the (4) basketball games UConn will tentatively play from on the AAC in transition period are:
Men's BB: Memphis & Temple
Women's BB: USF & TBD

cheebs09

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #420 on: August 07, 2019, 08:17:10 PM »
FIFY

#3 is relevant in that there is a certain bar B1G schools need to meet academically, but Rutgers was brought in for the TV money, not because it is a nice story or that they were any good at football.

Didn’t Nebraska break the AAU trend? Maybe it was a one-time exceptions to get the Nebraska football brand. I think they had recently lost their AAU status too.

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #421 on: August 07, 2019, 08:25:07 PM »
Didn’t Nebraska break the AAU trend? Maybe it was a one-time exceptions to get the Nebraska football brand. I think they had recently lost their AAU status too.

They lost it after the Big Ten added them.  I believe it was due to a restructuring where the medical school was no longer was part of the university in Lincoln but a separate part of the university system.
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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #422 on: August 08, 2019, 12:15:41 AM »
That's a good question and I'd be curious to know the answer, but so far, while cord cutting is on the increase, as of a year ago cable subscribers still outnumbered cord-cutters by nearly 6-1.

Well, it would be closer to 3-1 if the courts hadn’t ordered all those NASCAR fans to stay away from scissors and knives. 
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

auburnmarquette

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #423 on: August 09, 2019, 10:53:29 PM »
What good is being in a “media market” when you barely register in the media and public consciousness? SLU falls behind Missouri, Illinois and Kansas in STL.

Agree completely. The sec grabbed Missouri to get the St Louis market. UConn is perfect because it helps with the market important to the big east - New York. Believe i was told the advertising Marquette gets on ny tv alone is worth $20 million.

I'm glad Seton Hall is exciting, I'm sorry chris mullins is gone, but UConn men and women are a huge addition.
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shoothoops

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #424 on: August 10, 2019, 02:18:29 PM »
Agree completely. The sec grabbed Missouri to get the St Louis market. UConn is perfect because it helps with the market important to the big east - New York. Believe i was told the advertising Marquette gets on ny tv alone is worth $20 million.

I'm glad Seton Hall is exciting, I'm sorry chris mullins is gone, but UConn men and women are a huge addition.

Again, respectfully, this is short sighted thinking of not knowing or understanding a particular market.

Two things: 1) The Market, and the 2) Program.

The market:

St. Louis is not a baseball town. It is a big sports metro. The baseball team just so happens to have been good every other decade since the 1800’s.  The other pro teams draw very well, and get tv viewers. Local college teams get big followings when they are competitive. Last year for example, the third straight down year for the Cardinals, they finished first in MLB in local tv ratings. The St. Louis Blues, have a very big long time local following. Last year, a non-Stanley Cup year for example, the Blues finished 3rd in United States NHL TV ratings.  Both teams play their games on Fox Sports Midwest. The Blues of course broke records this year with the highest local TV ratings ever. SLU plays some of their games on this channel.

The St. Louis Rams were very well supported.  They had 95 consecutive sellouts after moving to St. Louis over a 10 year period. Despite winning only 39% of their games in their first 17 seasons, they sold out 95% of those games. This includes the worst 5 games stretch in NFL history. Since moving to L.A. St. Louis has had higher Rams TV ratings than Los Angeles much of the time. 

The market is also a big sports special event market. U.S. Womens soccer teams has had among its highest attendance with its games in St. Louis. The men will be playing in September around the time of anticipation of the new MLS teams in the market. NCAA hoops first rounds, regionals, including a final four gave all been highly attended in the market. 

Let’s get to college. This is how that market gets covered by media.
1) Mizzou ( This is no different than Wisconsin in Milwaukee, Ohio St. in Cincinnati, Penn St. in Philly, Nebraska in Omaha, especially when it comes to college football. But also hoops when the state school is competitive. Indiana in Indianapolis is bigger than Butler.

Of course SEC scooped up Mizzou, it is the big football state school. Mizzou is unveiling its new $100 million football facility right now next to its stadium. Zero chance that happens without already being in the SEC.  Mizzou gets covered first in the St. Louis market, just as Wisconsin gets covered first in Milwaukee.  Does that mean there is no market for Marquette basketball? Nope, not at all.

SLU is covered 2nd to Mizzou in the St. Louis market. If SLU hoops is very good, it jumps to first. It works roughly similar to Wisconsin and Marquette.

Illinois gets covered a distant 3rd, but covered. It helps when they are good at something. This year was the 2nd lowest rated Mizzou v Illinois annual basketball game ever. It also happened to be carried on the Big Ten Network for the first time ever. Many in St. Louis get the Big Ten Network on lower tiers. However, not many watch it.

Mizzou games are on SEC Network, other forms of ESPN, mostly, and occasionally Fox Sports Midwest if not on the others first.

I am not sure why Kansas was mentioned. They are not covered in St. Louis sports media, tv, print, radio. There are some alums and they will draw well if they play hoops in St. Louis. But, they are not a regular in person nor television draw.  You will find some Big 8 Big 12, Big 10, MVC, and then a wide variety of fandoms of teams all over the country, in St. Louis.

When SLU is competitive, and plays competitive teams, the 3 million metro area rallies around the team. SLU did just fine in several different eras with viewers and attendance.  What SLU needs is to string together winning seasons for longer periods, with a coach or multiple coaches that can be successful. SLU would not be a DePaul etc in the Big East.  Rick Majerus did what Rick Majerus does. He finds wealthy alums/donors to support his programs. Jon Huntsman at Utah. Richard Chaifetz at SLU. Chaifetz is making his investment and involvement long term at SLU. 

The Missouri Valley Conference doesn’t move the needle among SLU fans nor casual Stl area hoops fans unless it is in small doses, Valley Tourney, NCAA’s, head to head. The Atlantic 10 also doesn’t move the needle among local fans unless it is a perceived rival in the league, or strong program in the league. If an opponent is good or considered a rival that does better.  It isn’t difficult to see that if SLU raised its league profile, it would do well with regard to media coverage, attendance, TV, etc...

That chance may or may not ever happen.  But saying Mizzou has the market because of SEC, or that Kansas has the market for ? reasons is silly season.






 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 04:59:54 PM by shoothoops »