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Author Topic: UConn to BE Rumors  (Read 35224 times)

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #375 on: August 06, 2019, 09:29:16 AM »
I thought Le Moyne was ahead of them on the BE invite list?

PTM

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #376 on: August 06, 2019, 09:30:02 AM »
St. Thomas now is a better option than Dayton.
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brewcity77

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #377 on: August 06, 2019, 10:02:44 AM »
Being in the 15th largest DMA positions them well above Dayton, SLU, VCU, etc. 

Re: Football, maybe their football aspiration is to be Villanova.

You have to bring some proof of D1 success to the table, though. The floor right now is either Seton Hall's 13 NCAA appearances or Creighton's lone Elite Eight appearance. Everyone else has 16+ bids and aside from Xavier, multiple Final Fours. If just adding a media market was the goal, put Boston U & Detroit ahead of St. Thomas on the desirability list. At least both have made a Sweet 16. And frankly, SLU, Duquesne, and even Belmont bring top-30 markets with some proof of D1 basketball success.

I'm not saying never, I'm just saying any time in the next 40 years is probably way too soon to even consider them viable.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 10:20:21 AM by brewcity77 »

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #378 on: August 06, 2019, 10:18:38 AM »
I don't think moving to D1 with a goal of eventually getting into the BE is a bad long-term goal for UST.  I just hope they are realistic about the steps they would need to take and the timelines.

As for their football program and MIAC, I think them blowing people's doors off on the football field was the last straw for the other members. The other schools have been wary of how much they have grown and what that means for the resources they can devote to their overall athletic program.  Football just gave them the final push - turned them into the bad guy.
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StillAWarrior

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #379 on: August 06, 2019, 10:40:52 AM »
You have to bring some proof of D1 success to the table, though. The floor right now is either Seton Hall's 13 NCAA appearances or Creighton's lone Elite Eight appearance. Everyone else has 16+ bids and aside from Xavier, multiple Final Fours. If just adding a media market was the goal, put Boston U & Detroit ahead of St. Thomas on the desirability list. At least both have made a Sweet 16. And frankly, SLU, Duquesne, and even Belmont bring top-30 markets with some proof of D1 basketball success.

I'm not saying never, I'm just saying any time in the next 40 years is probably way too soon to even consider them viable.

Hell, Cinci has been desperately trying to get an invite to one of the grown-up tables for quite a while now and they have a couple (old) national championships, a FF, a couple EE and a bunch of bowl games.  I understand that they wouldn't make sense for the BEast because Cincinnati is already represented,  I'm just agreeing with the point everyone is making that even established D1 athletics programs have trouble moving into top-tier high major conferences.

This is a total pipe dream.  Not going to happen.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 11:09:19 AM by StillAWarrior »
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swoopem

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #380 on: August 06, 2019, 11:02:29 AM »
My dad is a Tommie and then sent 4 kids to MU. I would love this just for bragging rights/trash talk possibilities
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#UnleashJayce

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #381 on: August 06, 2019, 11:16:27 AM »
You have to bring some proof of D1 success to the table, though. The floor right now is either Seton Hall's 13 NCAA appearances or Creighton's lone Elite Eight appearance. Everyone else has 16+ bids and aside from Xavier, multiple Final Fours. If just adding a media market was the goal, put Boston U & Detroit ahead of St. Thomas on the desirability list. At least both have made a Sweet 16. And frankly, SLU, Duquesne, and even Belmont bring top-30 markets with some proof of D1 basketball success.

I'm not saying never, I'm just saying any time in the next 40 years is probably way too soon to even consider them viable.

Recent success is the only thing that matters. No one cares that St John's and DePaul were really good at some point. Only that they've been dogs hit for a long time now.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #382 on: August 06, 2019, 11:21:54 AM »
Recent success is the only thing that matters. No one cares that St John's and DePaul were really good at some point. Only that they've been dogs hit for a long time now.


That isn't really accurate.  Recent success only matters if it built a good foundation to sustain that success.
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brewcity77

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #383 on: August 06, 2019, 11:23:50 AM »
Recent success is the only thing that matters. No one cares that St John's and DePaul were really good at some point. Only that they've been dogs hit for a long time now.

Good point, that's why we kicked them both out of the league and replaced them with Wichita State and VCU.

Marcus92

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #384 on: August 06, 2019, 11:33:21 AM »
Nothing is impossible. But there's a gigantic difference between Division III and the Big East. This would be an unbelievably huge hurdle.

The Tommies men's basketball team averages around 900 fans a game. That's great for Division III -- but pitiful even by DePaul's standards (roughly 3,000 a game).

Where would they practice and play? Is St. Thomas willing to invest likely hundreds of millions of dollars in new athletic facilities? (The Al McGuire Center cost $31 million to build 15 years ago; construction costs for Wintrust Arena totaled $175 million.)

What conference would they be part of in the meantime? (Maybe the Summit League?) Who would they schedule? What rivalries would interest fans? Could they triple or quadruple their attendance, even when they're getting trounced by high-major Division I schools?

How would St. Thomas fare competing for fans with the Minnesota Golden Gophers (basketball, football and hockey), Minnesota Vikings (NFL), Minnesota Wild (NHL), Minnesota Timberwolves (NBA), even the Minnesota Whitecaps (NWHL)?

Would they be willing to upgrade other athletic programs and facilities (women's basketball, men's and women's soccer, etc.) to compete in the Big East?

Even if St. Thomas was willing to spend $500 million over the course of the next 10-20 years, and if the dice all rolled the right way, they might still be looking at Horizon League or Missouri Valley Conference membership.
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The Lens

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #385 on: August 06, 2019, 11:46:41 AM »
You have to bring some proof of D1 success to the table, though. The floor right now is either Seton Hall's 13 NCAA appearances or Creighton's lone Elite Eight appearance. Everyone else has 16+ bids and aside from Xavier, multiple Final Fours. If just adding a media market was the goal, put Boston U & Detroit ahead of St. Thomas on the desirability list. At least both have made a Sweet 16. And frankly, SLU, Duquesne, and even Belmont bring top-30 markets with some proof of D1 basketball success.

I'm not saying never, I'm just saying any time in the next 40 years is probably way too soon to even consider them viable.

I don't disagree with your reasoning, but I can see where a few drunk Tommy boosters have dreamed about it using the reasoning it gets the Big East + Fox Sports a neighboring / contiguous state with a huge media market (top brands will spend national money in MSP that they would never spend in STL, Dayton or Richmond).  MSP is closer to Chicago and NY in terms of media importance than it is Indy, Omaha, Milwaukee or those A-10 cities I mentioned.  I can also see the Big East (and maybe Fox) thinking 25 years down the road and putting them in the maybe category.  You always have to be planning. 

That said, I want to stay at 11 to preserve the round robin.  I think imbalanced scheduling ruins conferences as much as anything.
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brewcity77

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #386 on: August 06, 2019, 11:55:10 AM »
One of the other big keys is relationships. Marquette got into the Great Midwest back in the day in part thanks to DePaul. When the Big East came calling years later, Marquette was the prize and brought DePaul along. When the Big East restructured, it was largely Creighton's relationship with Marquette that got them an invite. UConn is coming back because of decades of previous relations. Just having the requisite size and success won't do it.

frozena pizza

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #387 on: August 06, 2019, 12:12:29 PM »
I live walking distance from St. Thomas and nearly went there before picking MU.  Great campus, lots of money, really nice facilities (for D3).  The football games are a blast.  When I tell people who went to St. Thomas that I went to Marquette they often make comments that Marquette is essentially what St. Thomas wants to be someday (clearly referring to athletics because otherwise they are pretty comparable).  It could happen eventually but honestly it is a long ways and a lot of $$$ from happening.  Frankly I think it would seriously damage the reputation of the Big East to take a school like that until they have a track record of success in D1 and Big East level resources.  What would someone from New York say about the news that in addition to UConn, St. Thomas is joining the BE?  Also I think football will be a higher priority for them in the near term so the BE is not a good fit for that.

Marcus92

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #388 on: August 06, 2019, 12:32:19 PM »
St. Louis hasn't gotten a Big East invite yet -- despite the fact that its men's basketball program goes back 100 years (including 2 Atlantic 10 titles and 4 NCAA appearances in the past 8 years, plus history with Marquette and DePaul through the GMC and CUSA) and it's located in a top 20 metro area.

St. Thomas has a looooooong way to go just to reach that level.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 12:33:52 PM by Marcus92 »
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Marcus92

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #389 on: August 06, 2019, 01:00:01 PM »
Maybe the best example for St. Thomas to follow would be Butler -- which first competed as an independent in Division I (until 1946), then in the Mid-American and Indiana Collegiate Conferences (1940s to 1970s) before joining the Horizon League in 1989.

Over the course of 4 coaches (Barry Collier, Thad Matta, Todd Lickliter, Brad Stevens) and 16 seasons (1996-2012), Butler was possibly the most successful mid-major men's program in Division I. The Bulldogs earned 10 NCAA bids and won 16 games, including 4 Sweet 16 and 2 national title game appearances.

That got the Big East's attention. Along with a top 40 metro area and an average attendance of more than 8,000 fans a game.

Creighton was a similar story: 9 NCAA appearances over the course of 15 years in the Missouri Valley Conference, plus the support of 17,000+ crazed fans (what else is there to do during the winter in Omaha?) attending every home game.
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Its DJOver

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #390 on: August 06, 2019, 01:07:07 PM »
Nothing is impossible. But there's a gigantic difference between Division III and the Big East. This would be an unbelievably huge hurdle.

The Tommies men's basketball team averages around 900 fans a game. That's great for Division III -- but pitiful even by DePaul's standards (roughly 3,000 a game).

Where would they practice and play? Is St. Thomas willing to invest likely hundreds of millions of dollars in new athletic facilities? (The Al McGuire Center cost $31 million to build 15 years ago; construction costs for Wintrust Arena totaled $175 million.)

What conference would they be part of in the meantime? (Maybe the Summit League?) Who would they schedule? What rivalries would interest fans? Could they triple or quadruple their attendance, even when they're getting trounced by high-major Division I schools?

How would St. Thomas fare competing for fans with the Minnesota Golden Gophers (basketball, football and hockey), Minnesota Vikings (NFL), Minnesota Wild (NHL), Minnesota Timberwolves (NBA), even the Minnesota Whitecaps (NWHL)?

Would they be willing to upgrade other athletic programs and facilities (women's basketball, men's and women's soccer, etc.) to compete in the Big East?

Even if St. Thomas was willing to spend $500 million over the course of the next 10-20 years, and if the dice all rolled the right way, they might still be looking at Horizon League or Missouri Valley Conference membership.

How dare you forget the Loons

Marcus92

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #391 on: August 06, 2019, 01:19:54 PM »
How dare you forget the Loons

Actually didn't forget them -- but they don't play during the winter, do they? Include them and you'd also have to include the Minnesota Twins, Minnesota Gophers (baseball), etc.
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Its DJOver

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #392 on: August 06, 2019, 01:25:48 PM »
Actually didn't forget them -- but they don't play during the winter, do they? Include them and you'd also have to include the Minnesota Twins, Minnesota Gophers (baseball), etc.

I put it in teal, but they do start their season in February FWIW and have higher attendance than many of the other teams listed.

frozena pizza

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #393 on: August 06, 2019, 01:38:18 PM »
I put it in teal, but they do start their season in February FWIW and have higher attendance than many of the other teams listed.

I liked the inclusion of the Whitecaps...

Marcus92

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #394 on: August 06, 2019, 01:47:49 PM »
The Whitecaps led the NWHL in attendance during the 2018-19 season, averaging 1,200 fans a game -- 33% more than St. Thomas men's basketball. The Tommies athletic program is big-time for Division III, but totally small-time in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro market.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 05:53:43 PM by Marcus92 »
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Uncle Rico

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #395 on: August 06, 2019, 02:19:38 PM »
Fortune favors the bold or something
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The Lens

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #396 on: August 06, 2019, 04:19:34 PM »
Just the fact we're talking about a D3 school instead of SLU or Dayton makes me so happy.  Hi Dayton Fan!  ABD!
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4everDawson

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #397 on: August 06, 2019, 05:12:33 PM »
You have to bring some proof of D1 success to the table, though. The floor right now is either Seton Hall's 13 NCAA appearances or Creighton's lone Elite Eight appearance. Everyone else has 16+ bids and aside from Xavier, multiple Final Fours. If just adding a media market was the goal, put Boston U & Detroit ahead of St. Thomas on the desirability list. At least both have made a Sweet 16. And frankly, SLU, Duquesne, and even Belmont bring top-30 markets with some proof of D1 basketball success.

I'm not saying never, I'm just saying any time in the next 40 years is probably way too soon to even consider them viable.

And if a particle beam transporter if developed before then, Gonzaga will have already taken that spot.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 05:15:38 PM by 4everCrean »
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

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No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

PTM

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #398 on: August 06, 2019, 07:58:01 PM »
Just the fact we're talking about a D3 school instead of SLU or Dayton makes me so happy.  Hi Dayton Fan!  ABD!

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DFW HOYA

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Re: UConn to BE Rumors
« Reply #399 on: August 06, 2019, 10:14:00 PM »
St. Louis hasn't gotten a Big East invite yet -- despite the fact that its men's basketball program goes back 100 years (including 2 Atlantic 10 titles and 4 NCAA appearances in the past 8 years, plus history with Marquette and DePaul through the GMC and CUSA) and it's located in a top 20 metro area.

St. Louis is the Baltimore of the Midwest: has baseball, a lot of history, but much of the city has been abandoned. STL has lost 65% of its population since 1950 and will fall under 300,000 at the next census.

 

anything