Here come the judge...

[muguru]

I'm with Boozeman. I don't think the men's OR women's tennis, lacrosse, golf (and other non revenue sports) "deserve" scholarships just because they represent the school and "bust their ass". Title IX may make it difficult (impossible?) to politically or legally "unwind this one", but why is this a non starter ethically? Not IMHO.

I mean...why do things have to be "equal" to begin with anyway??

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Women's sports wouldn't be destroyed, they'd become club sports.

That's what I said, they would be destroyed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Except as noted earlier the schools and Alumni will drive a truck through that and make matters even worse.  Profit off their likeness?  If I put Zion in a Centenary uniform is he worth more or less than a Duke uniform?  So exactly who is driving the profitability?  The player to some degree, but the platform has an enormous amount to do with it.  I love how so many think it is just the athlete...it simply isn’t the case (not suggesting you are saying this).

I get the "drive a truck through it" concern, I just don't give a sh*t about it.

But I'm not sure what the rest of your post has to do with the idea of athletes profiting off their likeness. Are you concerned the university won't get their cut? I'm pretty sure that can be worked out.

[brewcity77]

I mean...why do things have to be "equal" to begin with anyway??

Let's just do away with that pesky Constitution.

[Newsdreams]

Let's just do away with that pesky Constitution.

The Constitution applies???

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Just let them take outside income. Sign endorsement deals. Keeps everything above board and doesn’t cost the schools anything extra.

[forgetful]

Except as noted earlier the schools and Alumni will drive a truck through that and make matters even worse.  Profit off their likeness?  If I put Zion in a Centenary uniform is he worth more or less than a Duke uniform?  So exactly who is driving the profitability?  The player to some degree, but the platform has an enormous amount to do with it.  I love how so many think it is just the athlete...it simply isn’t the case (not suggesting you are saying this).

Charles Bassey.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Except as noted earlier the schools and Alumni will drive a truck through that and make matters even worse.  Profit off their likeness?  If I put Zion in a Centenary uniform is he worth more or less than a Duke uniform?  So exactly who is driving the profitability?  The player to some degree, but the platform has an enormous amount to do with it.  I love how so many think it is just the athlete...it simply isn’t the case (not suggesting you are saying this).

So just like professional sports then.

[forgetful]

So just like professional sports then.

No, the difference in exposure, value, and relevance from the most valuable sports franchise to the lowest, is minimal compared to that between a Duke and a Centenary.

It's just dumb to even think that.

There is a reason why G-league players, although more talented than college players, are not making big bucks. There is a reason why no successful league has been created to challenge the NCAA.

The NCAA has a built in audience of alumni, and "State-pride", viewers that tune in for the team, not the players on the roster.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

No, the difference in exposure, value, and relevance from the most valuable sports franchise to the lowest, is minimal compared to that between a Duke and a Centenary.

It's just dumb to even think that.

There is a reason why G-league players, although more talented than college players, are not making big bucks. There is a reason why no successful league has been created to challenge the NCAA.

The NCAA has a built in audience of alumni, and "State-pride", viewers that tune in for the team, not the players on the roster.

Right. Just like the professional leagues in many respects. Packer fans watch the Packers. The players benefit from that.

Some companies sponsor the team and derive benefit from that. Some the players because they feel that’s more of a benefit. Why can’t those same scenarios exist at the collegiate level? 

Sorry but I think you’re the “dumb” one who doesn’t understand the similarities.

[MU82]

That may be the case, but ultimately still comes down to what we want done and what can be done....two different things.

I could easily argue any school that offers courses on Disneyland, bowling, Skeet Shooting, etc, are also doing a disservice to their academic institution...but those courses exist at major universities.  As long as they are open to everyone and everyone is graded in the same fashion, there is nothing the NCAA can do.  As much as all of us wish we could.

As I said in another thread, this is human nature....give an inch take a mile.  This happens everywhere to varying degrees in business, govt, education, athletics, society at large.  Find the loophole and drive a truck through it.

If you want to ban the “sham” classes that is fine, but who decides?  Some of those sham classes at UNC were African American studies....cannot wait to see the huge can of worms that opens up if those classes are banned.  What is the criteria to determine what is a sham class and what isn’t?  And what resources will be dedicated to monitoring 1000’s of schools in the NCAA divisions?  At some point we have to hope schools are being honest, and the people involved with them.....but alas that isn’t always to be the case.  I just don’t understand the blame of the NCAA here...they have plenty of warts already, but this one isn’t on them.

These classes didn't exist. Athletes didn't have to attend at all. They just were given grades. The coaches not only condoned it, they encouraged it ... as represtatives of the university. Should have had the book thrown at them . And Roy shoulda been fired.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I can honestly say that a course that involves no lectures and is graded by the department secretary is a "sham " 

[Dawson Rental]

Good luck with Title IX on this.  Massive removal of opportunities for minorities and women in particular.  The total number of “revenue” sports....do you mean revenue, or do you mean profitable because many men’s basketball lower D1 programs are revenue generating but lose money.  Same for football.

Hey, with DeVoss it could be possible.

[Cheeks]

I get the "drive a truck through it" concern, I just don't give a sh*t about it.

But I'm not sure what the rest of your post has to do with the idea of athletes profiting off their likeness. Are you concerned the university won't get their cut? I'm pretty sure that can be worked out.

Many of us do, more importantly many of the deciders do also.  I can tell you many of the schools like MU are terrified of it.

Not worried at all about the “cut”, I’m worried that human nature will be what human nature is and 5he explosion of cheating in this area will be ridiculous and further cause inequities.

[Cheeks]

Just let them take outside income. Sign endorsement deals. Keeps everything above board and doesn’t cost the schools anything extra.

Lol.  No it doesn’t.  Does the opposite.

[Cheeks]

So just like professional sports then.

Did teal button break for you?

[Cheeks]

I can honestly say that a course that involves no lectures and is graded by the department secretary is a "sham "

Yup.  And offered to any student at the school, thus the NCAA had no jurisdiction. 

[Cheeks]

These classes didn't exist. Athletes didn't have to attend at all. They just were given grades. The coaches not only condoned it, they encouraged it ... as represtatives of the university. Should have had the book thrown at them . And Roy shoulda been fired.

What are you talking about.  The classes existed, they were shams, but they did exist.  Cataloged with the university, official classes that any student could take.  No one is arguing they weren’t a joke, that attendance was not monitored, grades were a joke, a professor didn’t teach it....100% agree.  The NCAA also agrees, but it doesn’t matter....any student could take them.  UNC decided that this is how they were going to run their university.  They were put on probation for a few years by the accrediting agency, made many changes to alleviate the sham classes, but nothing the NCAA can do about it.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Lol.  No it doesn’t.  Does the opposite.

Right. Because legit contracts are worse than a bag man. Look if a kids knows they are getting $5,000 from Nike for going to Duke, good for them! They should be in the market for the best deal possible.

[Cheeks]

Right. Because legit contracts are worse than a bag man. Look if a kids knows they are getting $5,000 from Nike for going to Duke, good for them! They should be in the market for the best deal possible.

Except they won't be "legit", that's the point.  Same as the jobs student athletes used to do were called into question because the athlete would show up (maybe), a card punched, and paid $15 an hour to do absolutely nothing.  The same will happen for the endorsements.  And exactly how is this going to work...is Joe Blow at Duke going to be pitching the local car dealership?   Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with schools with 40,000 students, alumni 10X other schools, and every kid on the team getting "deals" that are alledgedly above board (LOL).

Reap what you sow I guess.   Release that genie and it is all over.  These kids are already taken care of, 99% of them will never play a hot second in the NBA, they are receiving a great value but the "SOLVE" is to make sure they are paid for the likeness when most teams in this nation people couldn't name 3 guys on a team.....poor guys aren't getting the attention or $$$ they deserve.  Give me a break.

They get paid, then they should get zero scholarship and can pay for school.  I keep hearing this bullshyte argument that other students can endorse things....sure...and other students are paying tuition, and don't get free tutors, and free room and board, and a chance to audition several times a week to a future employer.  So if they want to do what other students do, start paying for school, going to class and then we can talk.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Except they won't be "legit", that's the point.  Same as the jobs student athletes used to do were called into question because the athlete would show up (maybe), a card punched, and paid $15 an hour to do absolutely nothing.  The same will happen for the endorsements.  And exactly how is this going to work...is Joe Blow at Duke going to be pitching the local car dealership?   Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with schools with 40,000 students, alumni 10X other schools, and every kid on the team getting "deals" that are alledgedly above board (LOL).

How aren’t they above board?

[Loose Cannon]

It definitely isn’t the NCAA’s jurisdiction, this is an academic issue not an athletic issue. 

The Southern Association of Schools and Colleges gave full accreditation in Dec 2017, 2 years after they were put on probation as a result of the various issues that were going on.  The accreditation lasts 10 years. 

The agency said some members wanted to drop their accreditation of the university. Probation was the harshest penalty that agency had given in 40 years.

Further complicating things, the NCAA membership (the universities) passed a rule that only a school can determine what is academic fraud, not the NCAA itself.  The foxes run the henhouse as it were, but the actual body of the ncaa in Indianapolis can only follow the rules and regs of their body membership.

Thanks for the info.

[muguru]

What are you talking about.  The classes existed, they were shams, but they did exist.  Cataloged with the university, official classes that any student could take.  No one is arguing they weren’t a joke, that attendance was not monitored, grades were a joke, a professor didn’t teach it....100% agree.  The NCAA also agrees, but it doesn’t matter....any student could take them.  UNC decided that this is how they were going to run their university.  They were put on probation for a few years by the accrediting agency, made many changes to alleviate the sham classes, but nothing the NCAA can do about it.

This is 100% correct...and I just have to chuckle when I go to other message boards, and anytime something like this FBI probe is going on, and now that schools are going to be punished, everyone references how UNC got away with this that or the other. The NCAA couldn't do anything about it. That's the bottom line. No one has to like it, and no one does like it, but they didn't get away with anything as far as breaking NCAA rules goes. Fanbases can't be pissed off because one of their assistants was taking money to get players to their school, and then say "well UNC didn't get punished". UNC couldn't be punished. Arizona, KU, UL, they CAN be punished.

[MU82]

What are you talking about.  The classes existed, they were shams, but they did exist.  Cataloged with the university, official classes that any student could take.  No one is arguing they weren’t a joke, that attendance was not monitored, grades were a joke, a professor didn’t teach it....100% agree.  The NCAA also agrees, but it doesn’t matter....any student could take them.  UNC decided that this is how they were going to run their university.  They were put on probation for a few years by the accrediting agency, made many changes to alleviate the sham classes, but nothing the NCAA can do about it.

If you say so. Merry Xmas!

[MomofMUltiples]

I mean...why do things have to be "equal" to begin with anyway??

*wondering why this isn’t in teal...