Spoiler Filled - Endgame Discussion

[DegenerateDish]

The other thread is on the brink of going off the rails, and figured this deserves its own thread.

Robert Downey Jr has been so good in all these movies, I really hope he gets a Best Actor nod. Even saying that, it’s amazing how underrated his performances have been. He is the glue of these films, without him or a different actor, the series could have gone south.

Scarlett Johansson deserves a best supporting actress nod, she is so good in this film.

[Cheeks]

My questions....spoilers

























Steve goes back in time at the end with hammer, but come back as old man without....where is hammer?


Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?


How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

[Galway Eagle]

My questions....spoilers

























Steve goes back in time at the end with hammer, but come back as old man without....where is hammer?


Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?


How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

1) He went back in time to deliver the stones, guessing hammer was delivered too.

2) I thought of this too. Also was Captain coexisting with another version of himself? Or did he let bad things happen for 70yrs?

3) Infinity did happen, Hulk briefly mentioned you can't change the past. The past still happened.

4) I think the assumption is at least the main people in spiderman died in the snap. Maybe some kids without names graduated

5) I assume it has to do with timelines. In a different timeline Nebula ceases to exist

6) This is actually somewhat funny to imagine captain running after the red skull going "here it's yours I don't want it" and Red skulls running away out of fear

7) Different timeline Lokis back alive now.

8) got nothing

9) He's the only one in the universe besides probably captain marvel who's powerful enough to take on Adam Warlock. I'm sure he'll be in shape again the next one and ready to fight Adam.

[Cheeks]

3) Infinity did happen, Hulk briefly mentioned you can't change the past. The past still happened.

Yes, that is the answer we came up with and expected someone here to say....feels way to easy and tidy, however.  Some big holes exist IMO.

That said, this is make believe from start to finish so anything goes as they say. 

[brewcity77]

Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?

How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

1) What Galway said.

2) We never met Peggy's husband in the movies or Agent Carter show. Hypothetically, her husband could have always been a mystery man that was unbeknownst to the audience Steve Rogers.

3) What Galway said.

4) I'll be very curious to see what happened with the timeline and the second snap. We don't actually know exactly what Tony's snap did. Did the timeline reset? Did people return as they were pre-snap? Did they age? If you were a 17-year-old dating a 15-year old who was snapped, are you now a 22-year-old dating a 15-year-old? Is a younger sibling (by 2 years) now 3 years older than a snapped sibling? Lots of questions to be answered.

5) What Galway said.

6) I don't believe a soul would be needed to return the stone, just to take it. But would Skull still be there as the guardian?

7) Assuming alternate Loki is now back & will be explained in the Loki Disney+ show.

8) I assume there's a "not" missing in there. Perhaps because she knows all in her timeline? Not sure.

9) He's an Asgardian of the Galaxy.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Loki - Thor said Asgaard has a King.  I assume it's Loki

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I don't think in the movies or in the TV shows with Peggy they ever mentioned she married.  Steve was working work Peggy's niece in Winter Soldier and Civil War.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't think in the movies or in the TV shows with Peggy they ever mentioned she married.  Steve was working work Peggy's niece in Winter Soldier and Civil War.

It does in captain America 2

[Benny B]

Well, none of my plot predictions came true.  But looking back on the following, pretty much nailed it....

Obviously Sam is Thor and Joey is Loki not just because they're brothers, but Sam has already proven efficient without the use of his eye, and nobody really has Joey figured out yet.

Wasn't sure if Markus was Tony or Steve.  Sometimes he lets being the hero go to his head, and sometimes his physical talent just leaves you dumbstruck.  But given that Wojo is the legacy of greatness who was big back in the day and has now has focused on assembling the team and becoming a mentor, that obviously makes Markus the Captain.

Theo is obviously Bruce since he's always smashing the ball with no shortage of (or concern for) collateral damage.  And that's a trade-off everyone's willing to live with.

Sacar must be Natasha... he looks so unassuming, but turn your head for a split second and he'll cut and slash you so fast you won't know what happened until your decapitated head is lying on the ground.  Also, he is not infallible, but he knows it and seems to be using it as motivation to get better.

Chartouny is Peter (either one).  He's been "the guy" in his own neighborhood the past few years.  Came to the team with that invincible, wants-to-do-it-all kid attitude but is slowly starting to see that his contributions are exponentially greater as part of a team, not as a lone wolf working inside a team setting.

Greg is Clint.  People seem to be forgetting about him because he's sitting this one out.  But something tells me he's going to come back as a badass no one is expecting.

Ed is Drax.  Like the Hulk, there's collateral damage wherever he goes, but he's one of the strongest guys on the team and the intimidation factor alone is enough to cause the opposition to alter their plans.  And if it wasn't against NCAA rules, I'm convinced he'd paint a '30' on his back and play topless.

Brendan is T'Challa.  The reluctantly mature son of an inspirational leader who spent a couple years of soul-searching and in self-reflection before joining the team.  And capable of greatness.

Jamal is Scott.  Funny guy.  Comes out of nowhere, makes a huge impact, turns a bunch of heads, but before you can launch your counterattack, he disappears again.  But something tells me that this guy is going to play a huge role - more than anyone expects - in April.

Matt is Groot.  Tall, seemingly harmless, and it's hard to tell if that twig in his hair just landed there or is actually part of him.  Played a much bigger role early on, yet has had to reinvent himself lately.  But probably the most fiercely loyal on the entire team and more than willing to absorb damage when needed.

Ike is Heimdall.  Perpetually in the background, watching everything that's going on.  Commands a tremendous power whose applicability in different settings needs to be explored.

Cam is Wong.  Knowledge is his main contribution, though they do let him fight once in a while.

Koby is Bucky.  Groomed by a former foe, but is quite powerful in his own right and can be counted on for major contributions after he finishes a mandatory rest period.

Tommy is Eitri.  A big dwarf whose specialty is engineering.

Mike and Buddy are Hank and Xavier.  They wear the same brand, but not yet part of the universe.

After all, Loki disappeared halfway through and Thor quit on his people at the end (to go hang out with a rodent).

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Anyone think Peggy was Black Widow for a split second? Just me?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

It does in captain America 2

I found this.  Sccop is not the only place this is brought up.  The scene upends everything.

‘Avengers: Endgame’ – That Last Scene Makes No Sense
https://www.thewrap.com/avengers-endgame-that-final-captain-america-scene-makes-no-sense-peggy-carter-time/

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

My questions....spoilers


Steve goes back in time at the end with hammer, but come back as old man without....where is hammer?


Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?


How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

1-5) What Galway said.

2)  See the article I posted before this.  Ties in with 6) also.

6) Cap was giving back the Soul Stone so there is a theory a soul is given back.

7) As I said before.  Thor said Asgaard has a King.  I assume it's Loki.  He disappeared with the Tesseract after the battle of NYC in the new timeline.

8) Ancient One said she knew, but didn't believe.  Supposedly the Sorcerer's can only see what happens in their life span not outside of it so perhaps seeing something come from outside her "time span" did not allow her to piece together.  I don't know?

9) Apparently this a Marvel comic "Asguardians of the Galaxy" and the Asguardian character in the group was the Carl Urban character who died in Ragnarok. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I saw another article that the Black Widow origin movie that supposedly will begin filming in June would have made more sense while her character was still alive. 

I see where the Disney+ show Winter Soldier & The Falcon is set up.  Is Sam the new Captain America now?

Who was the kid in the funeral scene?  I heard he was the kid Tony Stark saved in one of the Iron Man movies.  What's his future?

I thought the near final scene was a bit Shakespearean.  By that I mean the ones left were the "Soldier(s) & Scholar" i.e. Falcon, Winter Soldier, War Machine & Bruce Banner sending Cap back in time. 

My daughters thought it awesome during the battle scene where the women of the MCU voluntarily stand in front of Captain Marvel headed to the van.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Yea, Sam becomes Cap in the comics as well so that canonically makes sense. Stan Lee really was ahead of his time.

Guessing the kid may become Iron Lad?

[brewcity77]

I saw another article that the Black Widow origin movie that supposedly will begin filming in June would have made more sense while her character was still alive. 

I see where the Disney+ show Winter Soldier & The Falcon is set up.  Is Sam the new Captain America now?

Who was the kid in the funeral scene?  I heard he was the kid Tony Stark saved in one of the Iron Man movies.  What's his future?

I thought the near final scene was a bit Shakespearean.  By that I mean the ones left were the "Soldier(s) & Scholar" i.e. Falcon, Winter Soldier, War Machine & Bruce Banner sending Cap back in time. 

My daughters thought it awesome during the battle scene where the women of the MCU voluntarily stand in front of Captain Marvel headed to the van.

Sam Wilson likely takes the mantle of Captain America, which he has multiple times in the comics. The only real mystery was if it would be Sam or Bucky, both of whom have wielded the shield.

The kid was indeed Ty Simpkin, who played Harley Keener, the kid that helped Tony in IM3. Seems like the theories are that he will be the next Iron Man, though I could also see Morgan Stark in a similar role eventually, maybe as Ironheart.

In addition, Keener may foreshadow a Young Avengers movie, especially as they aged Cassie Lang, Scott's daughter who becomes Stature, & are expected to lay the groundwork for a new Hawkeye with Clint potentially training his daughter in the Disney+ series. Wandavision (also Disney+) could set up a return of Vision (original Young Avenger mentor) and the introduction of Wiccan, a magic based Wanda style character.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Here are my predictions for the big bads for Phase 4 and beyond.

Think we get another Loki baddie, but only in a one-off movie.

With the Fox/Disney merger and if the setup is similar to the first three phases I see a Doom arc, an Adam Warlock arc, and a reformed Adam Warlock helping out in a battle against Galactus.

[DegenerateDish]

Don't know if anyone else caught it, but ESPN's Matthew Berry has a cameo in this movie, he's next to Robert Redford.

[brewcity77]

As to the whole "forced feminine empowerment moment", I wanted to address it in here. It was a 10-second scene that likely foreshadows A-Force. It's no more forced than Hawkeye teaching his daughter to shoot, Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, or Harley Keener in the funeral scene, all likely foreshadowing Young Avengers. Or Cap handing the shield to Sam to foreshadow a new Captain America.

This movie was about setting up Phase 4 and beyond as much as it was closing the Phase 1-3 story arc. Really not a big deal, and only forced in the sense of they like to give indicators of what's to come. You'd think a decade of post credit scenes would have conveyed that message by now.

[Galway Eagle]

As to the whole "forced feminine empowerment moment", I wanted to address it in here. It was a 10-second scene that likely foreshadows A-Force. It's no more forced than Hawkeye teaching his daughter to shoot, Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, or Harley Keener in the funeral scene, all likely foreshadowing Young Avengers. Or Cap handing the shield to Sam to foreshadow a new Captain America.

This movie was about setting up Phase 4 and beyond as much as it was closing the Phase 1-3 story arc. Really not a big deal, and only forced in the sense of they like to give indicators of what's to come. You'd think a decade of post credit scenes would have conveyed that message by now.

It was though...

teaching daughter to shoot = cute father daughter relationship and character building for both of them. They also needed to create emotion for viewers when his family disappeared.

Scott saying you're so big is what you'd expect a dad to say when he hasn't seen his daughter since she was a little girl and is suddenly in her mid teens almost as tall as him.

I know you didn't mention it but in infinity war there was a scene where okoye, black widow and scarlett witch are all fighting together against thanos' hench woman. That is female empowerment that actually flows within the battle.

What happened with endgame is they made it seem like in the middle of a massive chaotic battle every woman suddenly came together to have a stand together moment. That is forced, the other moments are natural in the flow of the movie.

Fair point about A-force foreshadowing but I still think even an all female version of the first avenger circle would've been more natural with the action going on around them. 

That being said if my only qualm with a movie is that they went too cheesey with that then it's a darn good movie.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

As to the whole "forced feminine empowerment moment", I wanted to address it in here. It was a 10-second scene that likely foreshadows A-Force. It's no more forced than Hawkeye teaching his daughter to shoot, Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, or Harley Keener in the funeral scene, all likely foreshadowing Young Avengers. Or Cap handing the shield to Sam to foreshadow a new Captain America.

This movie was about setting up Phase 4 and beyond as much as it was closing the Phase 1-3 story arc. Really not a big deal, and only forced in the sense of they like to give indicators of what's to come. You'd think a decade of post credit scenes would have conveyed that message by now.

This. First and foremost it was just a badass scene.

Second off, I don’t think people realize how ahead of his time Stan Lee was. He was always pretty inclusive when it came to characters.

[tower912]

The Valkyrie is the new king of Asgard. 

[DegenerateDish]

I had always wondered about the Disney/Comcast (Universal) relationship of using characters in their theme parks. It always seemed like Disney (or Universal) could make a really kick butt Iron Man simulator ride of some sort. I know there's the Spiderman 3D simulator ride at Universal Orlando, and the Hulk and Doom roller coasters, all those rides predate the MCU/Disney relationship.

I read up that there's a complicated legal agreement to territorial rights agreed upon between Disney and Comcast. East of the Mississippi River (seems like a very random line of demarcation), Disney can not use any Avengers characters or likeness in their theme parks if that character is at Universal Orlando and that character is part of that "family" of characters. In California, it's fair game, Universal Hollywood has no Marvel character rides, and Disney already has a very popular Guardians of the Galaxy ride and plans for more, similar to what they have at their Asia parks today. Disney is developing the same Guardians ride for Epcot, as the Guardians franchise is a "loophole" for Disney.

Neither Universal or Disney are allowed to use the Marvel brandname in any of their parks.

I would think an Avengers land, similar to the new Star Wars Galaxy's Edge, would print money for Disney in Orlando. Not that they are struggling for visitors, but the possibilities for cool stuff are enormous.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

There is a new GOTG ride coming to Epcot in the next couple of years. Again, I don’t know the exact legal nature of the situation but I feel like the lines are getting more and more blurred with all the properties that Disney acquires.

[mu03eng]

My questions....spoilers

























Steve goes back in time at the end with hammer, but come back as old man without....where is hammer?


Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?


How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

1. Hammer could be anywhere, not sure it matters since there are at least two hammers in the timeline.
2. As someone else said, I think Steve is her husband and kid's father in the timeline that he goes back to. That also explains why she has a picture of him on her desk in 1970 (she couldn't have a "1970 photo" of him/her husband if he is supposedly frozen/missing at the time)
3. Yes, Infinity War happened, remember the final fight in Endgame takes place in 2024. They didn't stop the Snapture, they merely reversed it and brought everyone back 5 years later. Remember Spiderman makes a reference to feeling dusty then coming back on Titan when Hulk snaps them back. So everyone that got snapped away knows they were but when returned don't know it's been 5 years which is gotta be a mindf%^& when the battle ends.
4. Could be the whole class got snapped, but theoretically some of them had to remain and lived 5 more years and aren't around when the kids return. It's a bit of an idunno.
5. This is where the concept of prime(ie original) versions of a character and then non-prime versions is useful. So if we consider the Nebula from 2024 to be Prime, she kills Nebula-2014 in 2024 but Nebula-2014 isn't Nebula Primes' predecessor. Nebula-2014 is from a timeline where Infinity Wars doesn't happen (because Thanos-2014 et al came into Prime-2024). The way the multiverse works in the real world and in MCU might be different but basically there are multiple timelines and basically the prime timeline folks traveled to what became alternate timelines to "borrow" the stones so they could restore everyone within the prime timeline but none of the previous events/people were engaged via time travel.
6. Presumably if you return the soul stone it gives back a soul? You have to give up a soul to claim the soul stone, not sure that applies when giving it back (also must have been an interesting conversation between Cap and Red Skull)
7. Well Loki Prime is still dead (just like Black Widow Prime) as are the rest of the Asgardians Prime as they all died prior to the snapture (again all Hulk did was undo the disappearance of people, the 5 years they were gone still happened). However Loki 2012 who disappeared with the Tesseract in Endgame could theoretically be anywhere and perhaps he finds his way back to the Prime timeline, perhaps not.
8. She can see events within her own lifespan so she could see him coming back but she couldn't understand it in the context of her timeline because it included events outside of her timeline. That or it was simply a scene Marvel threw in there to try to exposition the crap out of the timetravel stuff so everyone could smile and nod and move on accepting that "time travel is a thing the Avengers can do".

[mu03eng]

7) As I said before.  Thor said Asgaard has a King.  I assume it's Loki.  He disappeared with the Tesseract after the battle of NYC in the new timeline.

Confusing from a gendering perspective but I was assuming that Valkyrie is the king of Asgaard now.