Spoiler Filled - Endgame Discussion

[mu03eng]

One thing I'll add as I've spent time thinking of the movie......this is basically an allegory for how selfish the millennial generation is right? I mean the prime timeline lost a lot of people but they then raid other timelines, create alternative timelines, and risk all of existence just to bring their friends back. I might be #TeamThanos if I think about this too hard.

[tower912]

One thing I'll add as I've spent time thinking of the movie......this is basically an allegory for how selfish the millennial generation is right? I mean the prime timeline lost a lot of people but they then raid other timelines, create alternative timelines, and risk all of existence just to bring their friends back. I might be #TeamThanos if I think about this too hard.

I am not quite that dark.   However, the farther I get from the wonder of actually watching the movie, the less awesome it becomes.   I realize that before the final fight scene, I remember thinking that I have seen this before.    And yes, the whole time travel paradox thing does become an issue.   

[mu03eng]

I am not quite that dark.   However, the farther I get from the wonder of actually watching the movie, the less awesome it becomes.   I realize that before the final fight scene, I remember thinking that I have seen this before.    And yes, the whole time travel paradox thing does become an issue.

I'm not saying I'm for the Snapture in the first place, but once it happened, what is the point of bringing everyone back.....just so Thanos doesn't win? I mean if you think about it, the people brought back know they were snapped and return as they were only 5 years later. People have moved on in the 5 years, or maybe should have, you gonna bring back a dude's spouse that was gone and finds him in bed with someone else because the spouse has been gone for 5 years. Or the couple that was on a plane together in which one of the couple and the pilots are snapped for the plane crashing killing the other person then the snap person comes back to what?

People disappearing than reappearing 5 years later would f%^& things up way more than just having them disappear and stay disappeared IMO. Basically the Avengers wanted to not lose and to get their friends/family back....to hell with everyone else.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I'm not saying I'm for the Snapture in the first place, but once it happened, what is the point of bringing everyone back.....just so Thanos doesn't win? I mean if you think about it, the people brought back know they were snapped and return as they were only 5 years later. People have moved on in the 5 years, or maybe should have, you gonna bring back a dude's spouse that was gone and finds him in bed with someone else because the spouse has been gone for 5 years. Or the couple that was on a plane together in which one of the couple and the pilots are snapped for the plane crashing killing the other person then the snap person comes back to what?

People disappearing than reappearing 5 years later would f%^& things up way more than just having them disappear and stay disappeared IMO. Basically the Avengers wanted to not lose and to get their friends/family back....to hell with everyone else.

Oh come on.  Hypothetically, If half of the world's population was wiped out and there is a way to potentially bring them back you have to try it, regardless of what has happened in those 5 years since and even if is selfishly motivated to a certain extent. 

In regards to the movie, it absolutely wasn't only about beating Thanos and you could certainly see that was the case for Thor and Cap.   

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Confusing from a gendering perspective but I was assuming that Valkyrie is the king of Asgaard now.

Honestly, my tired brain when I typed confused Ragnarok with The Infinity War snap.  Valkyrie it is.

[mu03eng]

Oh come on.  Hypothetically, If half of the world's population was wiped out and there is a way to potentially bring them back you have to try it, regardless of what has happened in those 5 years since and even if is selfishly motivated to a certain extent. 

In regards to the movie, it absolutely wasn't only about beating Thanos and you could certainly see that was the case for Thor and Cap.

It's the philosophical trolley problem, if you are on a trolley speeding out of control towards 1 person on the tracks who can't get away in time and its a choice between either you die or the person on the track dies, who do you pick? What if it's 1 person on the track but there are 5 in the trolley with you who will die?

What if half of human existence is on the track but the very nature of existence is on the trolley....which do you pick?

[UWW2MU]

Hey man, this is the Endgame Discussion, not "The Good Place" discussion.  You GTFOH with that ethical dilemma nonsense!     

Oh crap, I now just realized that the Avengers used the same utilitarian reasoning that Thanos himself did!  Are they really no better??   Should Thor and Cap really be able to wield mjolnir??  Maybe they used a sprinkling of deontological ethics I suppose... but enough to really distinguish them from being the "bad guys" themselves?    I'm just not sure anymore... 

 

[Hards Alumni]

One thing I'll add as I've spent time thinking of the movie......this is basically an allegory for how selfish the millennial generation is right? I mean the prime timeline lost a lot of people but they then raid other timelines, create alternative timelines, and risk all of existence just to bring their friends back. I might be #TeamThanos if I think about this too hard.

Which I think is a hilarious claim.  The Boomer generation should change their name to the, "I got mine, screw you" generation.  Furthermore, how can we call the "Greatest generation" that?  What was so great?  They raised these entitled boomers that have tilted societies rules solely for themselves.  Hogwash.  Greatest generation was the WWI generation. 

"The first generation makes it, the second generation spends it, and the third generation blows it."  Millennials are just the suckers holding the bag.

[Benny B]

Smh.   It’s not [character] “prime”. 

It’s [character] “C-137”

[mu03eng]

Which I think is a hilarious claim.  The Boomer generation should change their name to the, "I got mine, screw you" generation.  Furthermore, how can we call the "Greatest generation" that?  What was so great?  They raised these entitled boomers that have tilted societies rules solely for themselves.  Hogwash.  Greatest generation was the WWI generation. 

"The first generation makes it, the second generation spends it, and the third generation blows it."  Millennials are just the suckers holding the bag.

I've grown beyond teal

[Benny B]

Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

I've actually done a bit more thinking on this.  The only way it could have happened is via a new timeline, in which case, "old" Steve couldn't have been part of the main timeline for the past 70 years. 

So who we saw sitting on the bench at the end of the movie was the Steve from the main timeline who went back and started a new timeline by marrying Pegs, and then when he was "done" with that timeline (presumably after Pegs passed along), Steve went back to the main timeline.  The MCU time-travel canon that was established is that you cannot alter the present by changing the past... so old Steve could not have simply ended up on the bench if he changed the past, he'd end up in a completely different timeline.

With that said... time-travel goes back and forth, not sideways; in other words, there's nothing about hopping between timelines (at the same point in time).  So in order for "old" Steve to get back to the main timeline, he must have went back to whatever nexus point where the new timeline started and set things straight (meaning that he completely erased the years he and Pegs were together) before hopping back to the main timeline (or at least a few seconds prior in order to sneak onto the bench) or Marvel just introduced the multi-verse.  Originally, I though MCU Phase 4 was going to continue off Phase 3, but at this point, it could end up being a continuance and/or reboot.

Unless he never actually changed the past and simply stalked Pegs from the shadows and put a ring on to "pretend" he was married to her.  Maybe that's why he didn't want to tell Sam about it.

[mu03eng]

I've actually done a bit more thinking on this.  The only way it could have happened is via a new timeline, in which case, "old" Steve couldn't have been part of the main timeline for the past 70 years. 

So who we saw sitting on the bench at the end of the movie was the Steve from the main timeline who went back and started a new timeline by marrying Pegs, and then when he was "done" with that timeline (presumably after Pegs passed along), Steve went back to the main timeline.  The MCU time-travel canon that was established is that you cannot alter the present by changing the past... so old Steve could not have simply ended up on the bench if he changed the past, he'd end up in a completely different timeline.

With that said... time-travel goes back and forth, not sideways; in other words, there's nothing about hopping between timelines (at the same point in time).  So in order for "old" Steve to get back to the main timeline, he must have went back to whatever nexus point where the new timeline started and set things straight (meaning that he completely erased the years he and Pegs were together) before hopping back to the main timeline (or at least a few seconds prior in order to sneak onto the bench) or Marvel just introduced the multi-verse.  Originally, I though MCU Phase 4 was going to continue off Phase 3, but at this point, it could end up being a continuance and/or reboot.

Unless he never actually changed the past and simply stalked Pegs from the shadows and put a ring on to "pretend" he was married to her.  Maybe that's why he didn't want to tell Sam about it.

100% they are introducing the multi-verse.....that's going to be part of the intro of Adam Warlock IMO

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

100% they are introducing the multi-verse.....that's going to be part of the intro of Adam Warlock IMO

I don’t think they are going to do that quite yet despite what the new Spider-Man trailer suggests.

Just a Mysterio illusion is my guess.

[mu03eng]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R47UM8ShioY&list=WL

Thought this video/explainer was awesome. Generally I am huge fan of Kyle Hill's work and I think this video was his best.

[brewcity77]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R47UM8ShioY&list=WL

Thought this video/explainer was awesome. Generally I am huge fan of Kyle Hill's work and I think this video was his best.

I love Magic Dance as much as the next guy, but not sure it explains MCU time travel. Though it does remind me of the babe.

[brewcity77]

I just watched Endgame again last night. Seeing it a second time changes so much. Moments like "I love you 3,000" when you know those are Morgan Stark's last words to her father, or Black Widow playfully saying "See you in a minute" and never returning. The first 90 minutes or so are filled with sad moments.

The movie was even better on a rewatch. It felt like it flowed even better. And I definitely felt I didn't appreciate a lot of the little moments the first time, in part because of people cheering. Oh...and the female lineup scene that aggrieved some feels incredibly quick and minor after a second watch. It's there, but Valkyrie, Wanda, Rescue, & Okoye had been kicking ass the whole battle.

It really makes me excited for Disney Plus. Hope they include the old Blu-ray extras, like all the MCU shorts they used to do.

[MU82]

All righty then ... finally saw this flick.

I'll start by saying I am not a Marvel Head or whatever the biggest fans are called. I don't even know what y'all mean by Prime and various timelines and such. I just like being entertained. I went to the movie because a friend talked me into seeing the first part and I had to see how it ended. Went to a $5.75 matinee; got about my money's worth.

I can't comment on most of the plot holes because I don't have the same wealth of background knowledge that most of y'all do. The main thing that popped into my mind was that the Captain Marvel superchick probably could have collected all the stones and beaten Thanos all by herself, or maybe with just a little help. But then we only would have had a 50-minute TV show.

I liked Scarlett Johansson, not only because I like looking at her but because I thought her character had depth. I laughed out loud a couple of times at how out of shape Thor was and how they made fun of that a few times. I mostly liked the wise-guy raccoon dude. Thoroughly annoyed by Spiderboy, just as I was in the previous one. Wish they would have left him dead. Downey was good as always. Not impressed by Capt America, either the writing for his character or the actor.

I'll never be a Marvel Head, and I've probably seen about a dozen of them if I counted. These two, Black Panther, a couple of Capt Americas, a couple of Iron Mans, one of the Thors, the 3 Tobey Maguire Spider-Mans, maybe another one or two I'm not thinking of. Of those, my faves were the first and second Spideys, the first Iron Man and Black Panther. Also preferred several of the DC movies -- the original Superman, a couple of Batmans, Wonder Woman.

All in all, I left thinking this movie was "fine." I was reasonably entertained. I did not think it was anything close to great cinema.

Frankly, I preferred Season 8 of Game of Thrones (ducks).

[brewcity77]

I'll start by saying I am not a Marvel Head or whatever the biggest fans are called. I don't even know what y'all mean by Prime and various timelines and such. I just like being entertained.

Reading this, I'm not surprised. Endgame was not for you. That's not meant in a negative say, but it was probably the ultimate fan service movie. From "I can do this all day" to "Hail Hydra" to Camp Lehigh, Cap's entire story arc was rooted in his three previous movies & inside jokes. The Clint/Natasha storyline wouldn't have the same emotional impact without Avengers, Age of Ultron, & Civil War.

So many other details were for the True Believers. Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, Jarvis' presence with Howard Stark, Pepper wearing Rescue, Stan's last cameo, the Thanos scarecrow...honestly you could watch all 21 previous films and still not pick up on every reference, joke, or allusion. It was a love letter to Marvel fans. It wouldn't surprise me if I missed some stuff, & I've read just about every major story arc of every major character.

And Wonder Woman was a total ripoff of Captain America: The First Avenger, all the way to the ending with Steve crashing a plane to save the world. But I can see it being a better popcorn movie for the uninitiated. Not everyone is a Marvel buff.

[MU82]

Reading this, I'm not surprised. Endgame was not for you. That's not meant in a negative say, but it was probably the ultimate fan service movie. From "I can do this all day" to "Hail Hydra" to Camp Lehigh, Cap's entire story arc was rooted in his three previous movies & inside jokes. The Clint/Natasha storyline wouldn't have the same emotional impact without Avengers, Age of Ultron, & Civil War.

So many other details were for the True Believers. Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, Jarvis' presence with Howard Stark, Pepper wearing Rescue, Stan's last cameo, the Thanos scarecrow...honestly you could watch all 21 previous films and still not pick up on every reference, joke, or allusion. It was a love letter to Marvel fans. It wouldn't surprise me if I missed some stuff, & I've read just about every major story arc of every major character.

And Wonder Woman was a total ripoff of Captain America: The First Avenger, all the way to the ending with Steve crashing a plane to save the world. But I can see it being a better popcorn movie for the uninitiated. Not everyone is a Marvel buff.

Well, that explains a lot.

As I said, I was reasonably entertained and got my $5.75 worth. Glad it was everything you wanted and more; we should all be happy!