Spoiler Filled - Endgame Discussion

[DegenerateDish]

The other thread is on the brink of going off the rails, and figured this deserves its own thread.

Robert Downey Jr has been so good in all these movies, I really hope he gets a Best Actor nod. Even saying that, it’s amazing how underrated his performances have been. He is the glue of these films, without him or a different actor, the series could have gone south.

Scarlett Johansson deserves a best supporting actress nod, she is so good in this film.

[Cheeks]

My questions....spoilers

























Steve goes back in time at the end with hammer, but come back as old man without....where is hammer?


Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?


How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

[Galway Eagle]

My questions....spoilers

























Steve goes back in time at the end with hammer, but come back as old man without....where is hammer?


Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?


How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

1) He went back in time to deliver the stones, guessing hammer was delivered too.

2) I thought of this too. Also was Captain coexisting with another version of himself? Or did he let bad things happen for 70yrs?

3) Infinity did happen, Hulk briefly mentioned you can't change the past. The past still happened.

4) I think the assumption is at least the main people in spiderman died in the snap. Maybe some kids without names graduated

5) I assume it has to do with timelines. In a different timeline Nebula ceases to exist

6) This is actually somewhat funny to imagine captain running after the red skull going "here it's yours I don't want it" and Red skulls running away out of fear

7) Different timeline Lokis back alive now.

8) got nothing

9) He's the only one in the universe besides probably captain marvel who's powerful enough to take on Adam Warlock. I'm sure he'll be in shape again the next one and ready to fight Adam.

[Cheeks]

3) Infinity did happen, Hulk briefly mentioned you can't change the past. The past still happened.

Yes, that is the answer we came up with and expected someone here to say....feels way to easy and tidy, however.  Some big holes exist IMO.

That said, this is make believe from start to finish so anything goes as they say. 

[brewcity77]

Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?

How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

1) What Galway said.

2) We never met Peggy's husband in the movies or Agent Carter show. Hypothetically, her husband could have always been a mystery man that was unbeknownst to the audience Steve Rogers.

3) What Galway said.

4) I'll be very curious to see what happened with the timeline and the second snap. We don't actually know exactly what Tony's snap did. Did the timeline reset? Did people return as they were pre-snap? Did they age? If you were a 17-year-old dating a 15-year old who was snapped, are you now a 22-year-old dating a 15-year-old? Is a younger sibling (by 2 years) now 3 years older than a snapped sibling? Lots of questions to be answered.

5) What Galway said.

6) I don't believe a soul would be needed to return the stone, just to take it. But would Skull still be there as the guardian?

7) Assuming alternate Loki is now back & will be explained in the Loki Disney+ show.

8) I assume there's a "not" missing in there. Perhaps because she knows all in her timeline? Not sure.

9) He's an Asgardian of the Galaxy.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Loki - Thor said Asgaard has a King.  I assume it's Loki

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I don't think in the movies or in the TV shows with Peggy they ever mentioned she married.  Steve was working work Peggy's niece in Winter Soldier and Civil War.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't think in the movies or in the TV shows with Peggy they ever mentioned she married.  Steve was working work Peggy's niece in Winter Soldier and Civil War.

It does in captain America 2

[Benny B]

Well, none of my plot predictions came true.  But looking back on the following, pretty much nailed it....

Obviously Sam is Thor and Joey is Loki not just because they're brothers, but Sam has already proven efficient without the use of his eye, and nobody really has Joey figured out yet.

Wasn't sure if Markus was Tony or Steve.  Sometimes he lets being the hero go to his head, and sometimes his physical talent just leaves you dumbstruck.  But given that Wojo is the legacy of greatness who was big back in the day and has now has focused on assembling the team and becoming a mentor, that obviously makes Markus the Captain.

Theo is obviously Bruce since he's always smashing the ball with no shortage of (or concern for) collateral damage.  And that's a trade-off everyone's willing to live with.

Sacar must be Natasha... he looks so unassuming, but turn your head for a split second and he'll cut and slash you so fast you won't know what happened until your decapitated head is lying on the ground.  Also, he is not infallible, but he knows it and seems to be using it as motivation to get better.

Chartouny is Peter (either one).  He's been "the guy" in his own neighborhood the past few years.  Came to the team with that invincible, wants-to-do-it-all kid attitude but is slowly starting to see that his contributions are exponentially greater as part of a team, not as a lone wolf working inside a team setting.

Greg is Clint.  People seem to be forgetting about him because he's sitting this one out.  But something tells me he's going to come back as a badass no one is expecting.

Ed is Drax.  Like the Hulk, there's collateral damage wherever he goes, but he's one of the strongest guys on the team and the intimidation factor alone is enough to cause the opposition to alter their plans.  And if it wasn't against NCAA rules, I'm convinced he'd paint a '30' on his back and play topless.

Brendan is T'Challa.  The reluctantly mature son of an inspirational leader who spent a couple years of soul-searching and in self-reflection before joining the team.  And capable of greatness.

Jamal is Scott.  Funny guy.  Comes out of nowhere, makes a huge impact, turns a bunch of heads, but before you can launch your counterattack, he disappears again.  But something tells me that this guy is going to play a huge role - more than anyone expects - in April.

Matt is Groot.  Tall, seemingly harmless, and it's hard to tell if that twig in his hair just landed there or is actually part of him.  Played a much bigger role early on, yet has had to reinvent himself lately.  But probably the most fiercely loyal on the entire team and more than willing to absorb damage when needed.

Ike is Heimdall.  Perpetually in the background, watching everything that's going on.  Commands a tremendous power whose applicability in different settings needs to be explored.

Cam is Wong.  Knowledge is his main contribution, though they do let him fight once in a while.

Koby is Bucky.  Groomed by a former foe, but is quite powerful in his own right and can be counted on for major contributions after he finishes a mandatory rest period.

Tommy is Eitri.  A big dwarf whose specialty is engineering.

Mike and Buddy are Hank and Xavier.  They wear the same brand, but not yet part of the universe.

After all, Loki disappeared halfway through and Thor quit on his people at the end (to go hang out with a rodent).

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Anyone think Peggy was Black Widow for a split second? Just me?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

It does in captain America 2

I found this.  Sccop is not the only place this is brought up.  The scene upends everything.

‘Avengers: Endgame’ – That Last Scene Makes No Sense
https://www.thewrap.com/avengers-endgame-that-final-captain-america-scene-makes-no-sense-peggy-carter-time/

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

My questions....spoilers


Steve goes back in time at the end with hammer, but come back as old man without....where is hammer?


Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?


How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

1-5) What Galway said.

2)  See the article I posted before this.  Ties in with 6) also.

6) Cap was giving back the Soul Stone so there is a theory a soul is given back.

7) As I said before.  Thor said Asgaard has a King.  I assume it's Loki.  He disappeared with the Tesseract after the battle of NYC in the new timeline.

8) Ancient One said she knew, but didn't believe.  Supposedly the Sorcerer's can only see what happens in their life span not outside of it so perhaps seeing something come from outside her "time span" did not allow her to piece together.  I don't know?

9) Apparently this a Marvel comic "Asguardians of the Galaxy" and the Asguardian character in the group was the Carl Urban character who died in Ragnarok. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I saw another article that the Black Widow origin movie that supposedly will begin filming in June would have made more sense while her character was still alive. 

I see where the Disney+ show Winter Soldier & The Falcon is set up.  Is Sam the new Captain America now?

Who was the kid in the funeral scene?  I heard he was the kid Tony Stark saved in one of the Iron Man movies.  What's his future?

I thought the near final scene was a bit Shakespearean.  By that I mean the ones left were the "Soldier(s) & Scholar" i.e. Falcon, Winter Soldier, War Machine & Bruce Banner sending Cap back in time. 

My daughters thought it awesome during the battle scene where the women of the MCU voluntarily stand in front of Captain Marvel headed to the van.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Yea, Sam becomes Cap in the comics as well so that canonically makes sense. Stan Lee really was ahead of his time.

Guessing the kid may become Iron Lad?

[brewcity77]

I saw another article that the Black Widow origin movie that supposedly will begin filming in June would have made more sense while her character was still alive. 

I see where the Disney+ show Winter Soldier & The Falcon is set up.  Is Sam the new Captain America now?

Who was the kid in the funeral scene?  I heard he was the kid Tony Stark saved in one of the Iron Man movies.  What's his future?

I thought the near final scene was a bit Shakespearean.  By that I mean the ones left were the "Soldier(s) & Scholar" i.e. Falcon, Winter Soldier, War Machine & Bruce Banner sending Cap back in time. 

My daughters thought it awesome during the battle scene where the women of the MCU voluntarily stand in front of Captain Marvel headed to the van.

Sam Wilson likely takes the mantle of Captain America, which he has multiple times in the comics. The only real mystery was if it would be Sam or Bucky, both of whom have wielded the shield.

The kid was indeed Ty Simpkin, who played Harley Keener, the kid that helped Tony in IM3. Seems like the theories are that he will be the next Iron Man, though I could also see Morgan Stark in a similar role eventually, maybe as Ironheart.

In addition, Keener may foreshadow a Young Avengers movie, especially as they aged Cassie Lang, Scott's daughter who becomes Stature, & are expected to lay the groundwork for a new Hawkeye with Clint potentially training his daughter in the Disney+ series. Wandavision (also Disney+) could set up a return of Vision (original Young Avenger mentor) and the introduction of Wiccan, a magic based Wanda style character.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Here are my predictions for the big bads for Phase 4 and beyond.

Think we get another Loki baddie, but only in a one-off movie.

With the Fox/Disney merger and if the setup is similar to the first three phases I see a Doom arc, an Adam Warlock arc, and a reformed Adam Warlock helping out in a battle against Galactus.

[DegenerateDish]

Don't know if anyone else caught it, but ESPN's Matthew Berry has a cameo in this movie, he's next to Robert Redford.

[brewcity77]

As to the whole "forced feminine empowerment moment", I wanted to address it in here. It was a 10-second scene that likely foreshadows A-Force. It's no more forced than Hawkeye teaching his daughter to shoot, Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, or Harley Keener in the funeral scene, all likely foreshadowing Young Avengers. Or Cap handing the shield to Sam to foreshadow a new Captain America.

This movie was about setting up Phase 4 and beyond as much as it was closing the Phase 1-3 story arc. Really not a big deal, and only forced in the sense of they like to give indicators of what's to come. You'd think a decade of post credit scenes would have conveyed that message by now.

[Galway Eagle]

As to the whole "forced feminine empowerment moment", I wanted to address it in here. It was a 10-second scene that likely foreshadows A-Force. It's no more forced than Hawkeye teaching his daughter to shoot, Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, or Harley Keener in the funeral scene, all likely foreshadowing Young Avengers. Or Cap handing the shield to Sam to foreshadow a new Captain America.

This movie was about setting up Phase 4 and beyond as much as it was closing the Phase 1-3 story arc. Really not a big deal, and only forced in the sense of they like to give indicators of what's to come. You'd think a decade of post credit scenes would have conveyed that message by now.

It was though...

teaching daughter to shoot = cute father daughter relationship and character building for both of them. They also needed to create emotion for viewers when his family disappeared.

Scott saying you're so big is what you'd expect a dad to say when he hasn't seen his daughter since she was a little girl and is suddenly in her mid teens almost as tall as him.

I know you didn't mention it but in infinity war there was a scene where okoye, black widow and scarlett witch are all fighting together against thanos' hench woman. That is female empowerment that actually flows within the battle.

What happened with endgame is they made it seem like in the middle of a massive chaotic battle every woman suddenly came together to have a stand together moment. That is forced, the other moments are natural in the flow of the movie.

Fair point about A-force foreshadowing but I still think even an all female version of the first avenger circle would've been more natural with the action going on around them. 

That being said if my only qualm with a movie is that they went too cheesey with that then it's a darn good movie.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

As to the whole "forced feminine empowerment moment", I wanted to address it in here. It was a 10-second scene that likely foreshadows A-Force. It's no more forced than Hawkeye teaching his daughter to shoot, Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, or Harley Keener in the funeral scene, all likely foreshadowing Young Avengers. Or Cap handing the shield to Sam to foreshadow a new Captain America.

This movie was about setting up Phase 4 and beyond as much as it was closing the Phase 1-3 story arc. Really not a big deal, and only forced in the sense of they like to give indicators of what's to come. You'd think a decade of post credit scenes would have conveyed that message by now.

This. First and foremost it was just a badass scene.

Second off, I don’t think people realize how ahead of his time Stan Lee was. He was always pretty inclusive when it came to characters.

[tower912]

The Valkyrie is the new king of Asgard. 

[DegenerateDish]

I had always wondered about the Disney/Comcast (Universal) relationship of using characters in their theme parks. It always seemed like Disney (or Universal) could make a really kick butt Iron Man simulator ride of some sort. I know there's the Spiderman 3D simulator ride at Universal Orlando, and the Hulk and Doom roller coasters, all those rides predate the MCU/Disney relationship.

I read up that there's a complicated legal agreement to territorial rights agreed upon between Disney and Comcast. East of the Mississippi River (seems like a very random line of demarcation), Disney can not use any Avengers characters or likeness in their theme parks if that character is at Universal Orlando and that character is part of that "family" of characters. In California, it's fair game, Universal Hollywood has no Marvel character rides, and Disney already has a very popular Guardians of the Galaxy ride and plans for more, similar to what they have at their Asia parks today. Disney is developing the same Guardians ride for Epcot, as the Guardians franchise is a "loophole" for Disney.

Neither Universal or Disney are allowed to use the Marvel brandname in any of their parks.

I would think an Avengers land, similar to the new Star Wars Galaxy's Edge, would print money for Disney in Orlando. Not that they are struggling for visitors, but the possibilities for cool stuff are enormous.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

There is a new GOTG ride coming to Epcot in the next couple of years. Again, I don’t know the exact legal nature of the situation but I feel like the lines are getting more and more blurred with all the properties that Disney acquires.

[mu03eng]

My questions....spoilers

























Steve goes back in time at the end with hammer, but come back as old man without....where is hammer?


Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

Did infinity war actually happen now?

Peter Parker returns to school five years later and same kids are there....did no one graduate in five years?  Or did the entire class die in the snap?


How is Nebula killed by Nebula and continues to exist?

How did Cap return the soul stone? What soul was given?

Loki....where is Loki?

Why did the ancient one know Hulk was coming if she can see all?


Fat Thor is part of GOTG now?

1. Hammer could be anywhere, not sure it matters since there are at least two hammers in the timeline.
2. As someone else said, I think Steve is her husband and kid's father in the timeline that he goes back to. That also explains why she has a picture of him on her desk in 1970 (she couldn't have a "1970 photo" of him/her husband if he is supposedly frozen/missing at the time)
3. Yes, Infinity War happened, remember the final fight in Endgame takes place in 2024. They didn't stop the Snapture, they merely reversed it and brought everyone back 5 years later. Remember Spiderman makes a reference to feeling dusty then coming back on Titan when Hulk snaps them back. So everyone that got snapped away knows they were but when returned don't know it's been 5 years which is gotta be a mindf%^& when the battle ends.
4. Could be the whole class got snapped, but theoretically some of them had to remain and lived 5 more years and aren't around when the kids return. It's a bit of an idunno.
5. This is where the concept of prime(ie original) versions of a character and then non-prime versions is useful. So if we consider the Nebula from 2024 to be Prime, she kills Nebula-2014 in 2024 but Nebula-2014 isn't Nebula Primes' predecessor. Nebula-2014 is from a timeline where Infinity Wars doesn't happen (because Thanos-2014 et al came into Prime-2024). The way the multiverse works in the real world and in MCU might be different but basically there are multiple timelines and basically the prime timeline folks traveled to what became alternate timelines to "borrow" the stones so they could restore everyone within the prime timeline but none of the previous events/people were engaged via time travel.
6. Presumably if you return the soul stone it gives back a soul? You have to give up a soul to claim the soul stone, not sure that applies when giving it back (also must have been an interesting conversation between Cap and Red Skull)
7. Well Loki Prime is still dead (just like Black Widow Prime) as are the rest of the Asgardians Prime as they all died prior to the snapture (again all Hulk did was undo the disappearance of people, the 5 years they were gone still happened). However Loki 2012 who disappeared with the Tesseract in Endgame could theoretically be anywhere and perhaps he finds his way back to the Prime timeline, perhaps not.
8. She can see events within her own lifespan so she could see him coming back but she couldn't understand it in the context of her timeline because it included events outside of her timeline. That or it was simply a scene Marvel threw in there to try to exposition the crap out of the timetravel stuff so everyone could smile and nod and move on accepting that "time travel is a thing the Avengers can do".

[mu03eng]

7) As I said before.  Thor said Asgaard has a King.  I assume it's Loki.  He disappeared with the Tesseract after the battle of NYC in the new timeline.

Confusing from a gendering perspective but I was assuming that Valkyrie is the king of Asgaard now.

[mu03eng]

One thing I'll add as I've spent time thinking of the movie......this is basically an allegory for how selfish the millennial generation is right? I mean the prime timeline lost a lot of people but they then raid other timelines, create alternative timelines, and risk all of existence just to bring their friends back. I might be #TeamThanos if I think about this too hard.

[tower912]

One thing I'll add as I've spent time thinking of the movie......this is basically an allegory for how selfish the millennial generation is right? I mean the prime timeline lost a lot of people but they then raid other timelines, create alternative timelines, and risk all of existence just to bring their friends back. I might be #TeamThanos if I think about this too hard.

I am not quite that dark.   However, the farther I get from the wonder of actually watching the movie, the less awesome it becomes.   I realize that before the final fight scene, I remember thinking that I have seen this before.    And yes, the whole time travel paradox thing does become an issue.   

[mu03eng]

I am not quite that dark.   However, the farther I get from the wonder of actually watching the movie, the less awesome it becomes.   I realize that before the final fight scene, I remember thinking that I have seen this before.    And yes, the whole time travel paradox thing does become an issue.

I'm not saying I'm for the Snapture in the first place, but once it happened, what is the point of bringing everyone back.....just so Thanos doesn't win? I mean if you think about it, the people brought back know they were snapped and return as they were only 5 years later. People have moved on in the 5 years, or maybe should have, you gonna bring back a dude's spouse that was gone and finds him in bed with someone else because the spouse has been gone for 5 years. Or the couple that was on a plane together in which one of the couple and the pilots are snapped for the plane crashing killing the other person then the snap person comes back to what?

People disappearing than reappearing 5 years later would f%^& things up way more than just having them disappear and stay disappeared IMO. Basically the Avengers wanted to not lose and to get their friends/family back....to hell with everyone else.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I'm not saying I'm for the Snapture in the first place, but once it happened, what is the point of bringing everyone back.....just so Thanos doesn't win? I mean if you think about it, the people brought back know they were snapped and return as they were only 5 years later. People have moved on in the 5 years, or maybe should have, you gonna bring back a dude's spouse that was gone and finds him in bed with someone else because the spouse has been gone for 5 years. Or the couple that was on a plane together in which one of the couple and the pilots are snapped for the plane crashing killing the other person then the snap person comes back to what?

People disappearing than reappearing 5 years later would f%^& things up way more than just having them disappear and stay disappeared IMO. Basically the Avengers wanted to not lose and to get their friends/family back....to hell with everyone else.

Oh come on.  Hypothetically, If half of the world's population was wiped out and there is a way to potentially bring them back you have to try it, regardless of what has happened in those 5 years since and even if is selfishly motivated to a certain extent. 

In regards to the movie, it absolutely wasn't only about beating Thanos and you could certainly see that was the case for Thor and Cap.   

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Confusing from a gendering perspective but I was assuming that Valkyrie is the king of Asgaard now.

Honestly, my tired brain when I typed confused Ragnarok with The Infinity War snap.  Valkyrie it is.

[mu03eng]

Oh come on.  Hypothetically, If half of the world's population was wiped out and there is a way to potentially bring them back you have to try it, regardless of what has happened in those 5 years since and even if is selfishly motivated to a certain extent. 

In regards to the movie, it absolutely wasn't only about beating Thanos and you could certainly see that was the case for Thor and Cap.

It's the philosophical trolley problem, if you are on a trolley speeding out of control towards 1 person on the tracks who can't get away in time and its a choice between either you die or the person on the track dies, who do you pick? What if it's 1 person on the track but there are 5 in the trolley with you who will die?

What if half of human existence is on the track but the very nature of existence is on the trolley....which do you pick?

[UWW2MU]

Hey man, this is the Endgame Discussion, not "The Good Place" discussion.  You GTFOH with that ethical dilemma nonsense!     

Oh crap, I now just realized that the Avengers used the same utilitarian reasoning that Thanos himself did!  Are they really no better??   Should Thor and Cap really be able to wield mjolnir??  Maybe they used a sprinkling of deontological ethics I suppose... but enough to really distinguish them from being the "bad guys" themselves?    I'm just not sure anymore... 

 

[Hards Alumni]

One thing I'll add as I've spent time thinking of the movie......this is basically an allegory for how selfish the millennial generation is right? I mean the prime timeline lost a lot of people but they then raid other timelines, create alternative timelines, and risk all of existence just to bring their friends back. I might be #TeamThanos if I think about this too hard.

Which I think is a hilarious claim.  The Boomer generation should change their name to the, "I got mine, screw you" generation.  Furthermore, how can we call the "Greatest generation" that?  What was so great?  They raised these entitled boomers that have tilted societies rules solely for themselves.  Hogwash.  Greatest generation was the WWI generation. 

"The first generation makes it, the second generation spends it, and the third generation blows it."  Millennials are just the suckers holding the bag.

[Benny B]

Smh.   It’s not [character] “prime”. 

It’s [character] “C-137”

[mu03eng]

Which I think is a hilarious claim.  The Boomer generation should change their name to the, "I got mine, screw you" generation.  Furthermore, how can we call the "Greatest generation" that?  What was so great?  They raised these entitled boomers that have tilted societies rules solely for themselves.  Hogwash.  Greatest generation was the WWI generation. 

"The first generation makes it, the second generation spends it, and the third generation blows it."  Millennials are just the suckers holding the bag.

I've grown beyond teal

[Benny B]

Peggy ends up with Steve, but which means Peggy never got married and the kids she had never were born?

I've actually done a bit more thinking on this.  The only way it could have happened is via a new timeline, in which case, "old" Steve couldn't have been part of the main timeline for the past 70 years. 

So who we saw sitting on the bench at the end of the movie was the Steve from the main timeline who went back and started a new timeline by marrying Pegs, and then when he was "done" with that timeline (presumably after Pegs passed along), Steve went back to the main timeline.  The MCU time-travel canon that was established is that you cannot alter the present by changing the past... so old Steve could not have simply ended up on the bench if he changed the past, he'd end up in a completely different timeline.

With that said... time-travel goes back and forth, not sideways; in other words, there's nothing about hopping between timelines (at the same point in time).  So in order for "old" Steve to get back to the main timeline, he must have went back to whatever nexus point where the new timeline started and set things straight (meaning that he completely erased the years he and Pegs were together) before hopping back to the main timeline (or at least a few seconds prior in order to sneak onto the bench) or Marvel just introduced the multi-verse.  Originally, I though MCU Phase 4 was going to continue off Phase 3, but at this point, it could end up being a continuance and/or reboot.

Unless he never actually changed the past and simply stalked Pegs from the shadows and put a ring on to "pretend" he was married to her.  Maybe that's why he didn't want to tell Sam about it.

[mu03eng]

I've actually done a bit more thinking on this.  The only way it could have happened is via a new timeline, in which case, "old" Steve couldn't have been part of the main timeline for the past 70 years. 

So who we saw sitting on the bench at the end of the movie was the Steve from the main timeline who went back and started a new timeline by marrying Pegs, and then when he was "done" with that timeline (presumably after Pegs passed along), Steve went back to the main timeline.  The MCU time-travel canon that was established is that you cannot alter the present by changing the past... so old Steve could not have simply ended up on the bench if he changed the past, he'd end up in a completely different timeline.

With that said... time-travel goes back and forth, not sideways; in other words, there's nothing about hopping between timelines (at the same point in time).  So in order for "old" Steve to get back to the main timeline, he must have went back to whatever nexus point where the new timeline started and set things straight (meaning that he completely erased the years he and Pegs were together) before hopping back to the main timeline (or at least a few seconds prior in order to sneak onto the bench) or Marvel just introduced the multi-verse.  Originally, I though MCU Phase 4 was going to continue off Phase 3, but at this point, it could end up being a continuance and/or reboot.

Unless he never actually changed the past and simply stalked Pegs from the shadows and put a ring on to "pretend" he was married to her.  Maybe that's why he didn't want to tell Sam about it.

100% they are introducing the multi-verse.....that's going to be part of the intro of Adam Warlock IMO

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

100% they are introducing the multi-verse.....that's going to be part of the intro of Adam Warlock IMO

I don’t think they are going to do that quite yet despite what the new Spider-Man trailer suggests.

Just a Mysterio illusion is my guess.

[mu03eng]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R47UM8ShioY&list=WL

Thought this video/explainer was awesome. Generally I am huge fan of Kyle Hill's work and I think this video was his best.

[brewcity77]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R47UM8ShioY&list=WL

Thought this video/explainer was awesome. Generally I am huge fan of Kyle Hill's work and I think this video was his best.

I love Magic Dance as much as the next guy, but not sure it explains MCU time travel. Though it does remind me of the babe.

[brewcity77]

I just watched Endgame again last night. Seeing it a second time changes so much. Moments like "I love you 3,000" when you know those are Morgan Stark's last words to her father, or Black Widow playfully saying "See you in a minute" and never returning. The first 90 minutes or so are filled with sad moments.

The movie was even better on a rewatch. It felt like it flowed even better. And I definitely felt I didn't appreciate a lot of the little moments the first time, in part because of people cheering. Oh...and the female lineup scene that aggrieved some feels incredibly quick and minor after a second watch. It's there, but Valkyrie, Wanda, Rescue, & Okoye had been kicking ass the whole battle.

It really makes me excited for Disney Plus. Hope they include the old Blu-ray extras, like all the MCU shorts they used to do.

[MU82]

All righty then ... finally saw this flick.

I'll start by saying I am not a Marvel Head or whatever the biggest fans are called. I don't even know what y'all mean by Prime and various timelines and such. I just like being entertained. I went to the movie because a friend talked me into seeing the first part and I had to see how it ended. Went to a $5.75 matinee; got about my money's worth.

I can't comment on most of the plot holes because I don't have the same wealth of background knowledge that most of y'all do. The main thing that popped into my mind was that the Captain Marvel superchick probably could have collected all the stones and beaten Thanos all by herself, or maybe with just a little help. But then we only would have had a 50-minute TV show.

I liked Scarlett Johansson, not only because I like looking at her but because I thought her character had depth. I laughed out loud a couple of times at how out of shape Thor was and how they made fun of that a few times. I mostly liked the wise-guy raccoon dude. Thoroughly annoyed by Spiderboy, just as I was in the previous one. Wish they would have left him dead. Downey was good as always. Not impressed by Capt America, either the writing for his character or the actor.

I'll never be a Marvel Head, and I've probably seen about a dozen of them if I counted. These two, Black Panther, a couple of Capt Americas, a couple of Iron Mans, one of the Thors, the 3 Tobey Maguire Spider-Mans, maybe another one or two I'm not thinking of. Of those, my faves were the first and second Spideys, the first Iron Man and Black Panther. Also preferred several of the DC movies -- the original Superman, a couple of Batmans, Wonder Woman.

All in all, I left thinking this movie was "fine." I was reasonably entertained. I did not think it was anything close to great cinema.

Frankly, I preferred Season 8 of Game of Thrones (ducks).

[brewcity77]

I'll start by saying I am not a Marvel Head or whatever the biggest fans are called. I don't even know what y'all mean by Prime and various timelines and such. I just like being entertained.

Reading this, I'm not surprised. Endgame was not for you. That's not meant in a negative say, but it was probably the ultimate fan service movie. From "I can do this all day" to "Hail Hydra" to Camp Lehigh, Cap's entire story arc was rooted in his three previous movies & inside jokes. The Clint/Natasha storyline wouldn't have the same emotional impact without Avengers, Age of Ultron, & Civil War.

So many other details were for the True Believers. Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, Jarvis' presence with Howard Stark, Pepper wearing Rescue, Stan's last cameo, the Thanos scarecrow...honestly you could watch all 21 previous films and still not pick up on every reference, joke, or allusion. It was a love letter to Marvel fans. It wouldn't surprise me if I missed some stuff, & I've read just about every major story arc of every major character.

And Wonder Woman was a total ripoff of Captain America: The First Avenger, all the way to the ending with Steve crashing a plane to save the world. But I can see it being a better popcorn movie for the uninitiated. Not everyone is a Marvel buff.

[MU82]

Reading this, I'm not surprised. Endgame was not for you. That's not meant in a negative say, but it was probably the ultimate fan service movie. From "I can do this all day" to "Hail Hydra" to Camp Lehigh, Cap's entire story arc was rooted in his three previous movies & inside jokes. The Clint/Natasha storyline wouldn't have the same emotional impact without Avengers, Age of Ultron, & Civil War.

So many other details were for the True Believers. Scott saying "you're so big" to Cassie, Jarvis' presence with Howard Stark, Pepper wearing Rescue, Stan's last cameo, the Thanos scarecrow...honestly you could watch all 21 previous films and still not pick up on every reference, joke, or allusion. It was a love letter to Marvel fans. It wouldn't surprise me if I missed some stuff, & I've read just about every major story arc of every major character.

And Wonder Woman was a total ripoff of Captain America: The First Avenger, all the way to the ending with Steve crashing a plane to save the world. But I can see it being a better popcorn movie for the uninitiated. Not everyone is a Marvel buff.

Well, that explains a lot.

As I said, I was reasonably entertained and got my $5.75 worth. Glad it was everything you wanted and more; we should all be happy!