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Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
66
Marquette
Scrimmage
Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
TV: NA
Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
75

Herman Cain

Greg has gained muscle ,worked on developing his handle and leadership during the red shirt season. Greg was a favorite of mine as a freshman and I am really looking forward to some great things from him this year.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/Greg-Elliott-131394963/
"It was a Great Day until it wasn't"
    ——Rory McIlroy on Final Round at Pinehurst

tower912

Allowing Greg to redshirt may have been Wojo's biggest mistake of the season.  Not playing Bailey more in January and early February is up there, but I think having Greg healthy and playing like a sophomore Greg was projected to play might have:

Allowed Wojo to rest Markus.
Allowed Wojo to not play Chartouny.
Allowed Markus to play off the ball.
Provided another athletic guard to defend all of those athletic guards that beat Marquette down the stretch.

He didn't have to be a hero.  Just a healthy sophomore version of his freshman self.

In hindsight, may have been the most crucial decision of the year.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Heisenberg

Quote from: tower912 on April 23, 2019, 09:44:36 PM
Allowing Greg to redshirt may have been Wojo's biggest mistake of the season.  Not playing Bailey more in January and early February is up there, but I think having Greg healthy and playing like a sophomore Greg was projected to play might have:

Allowed Wojo to rest Markus.
Allowed Wojo to not play Chartouny.
Allowed Markus to play off the ball.
Provided another athletic guard to defend all of those athletic guards that beat Marquette down the stretch.

He didn't have to be a hero.  Just a healthy sophomore version of his freshman self.

In hindsight, may have been the most crucial decision of the year.

The reason he was redshirted was he was going to miss most of the season and then get behind for lack of play.

It was not a totally voluntary decision.

Silkk the Shaka

Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on April 23, 2019, 09:54:49 PM
The reason he was redshirted was he was going to miss most of the season and then get behind for lack of play.

It was not a totally voluntary decision.

"I could have played against Wisconsin (December 9th) if that was needed and any game after that.  I was prepared to play.  That decision to stay out was made but if I had been needed, I could have come back and played any time after the Wisconsin game."

10 games = most of the 34 game season?

Norm

tower,

They got to 23-4 without Greg. At that point keeping the red-shirt seems a good idea. You don't burn an agreed upon red-shirt year at that point once you start losing. Once Wojo, Greg and his family decided to red-shirt the best thing to do for the player is to continue the plan. He had re-injured his hand once already, coming back too soon may have risked another injury.

genious expert

#5
Quote from: tower912 on April 23, 2019, 09:44:36 PM
Allowing Greg to redshirt may have been Wojo's biggest mistake of the season.  Not playing Bailey more in January and early February is up there, but I think having Greg healthy and playing like a sophomore Greg was projected to play might have:

Allowed Wojo to rest Markus.
Allowed Wojo to not play Chartouny.
Allowed Markus to play off the ball.
Provided another athletic guard to defend all of those athletic guards that beat Marquette down the stretch.

He didn't have to be a hero.  Just a healthy sophomore version of his freshman self.

In hindsight, may have been the most crucial decision of the year.

Greg is not a PG and I really don't understand why everybody thinks he is. He has never played PG, not even in HS.

And yes I see that he talks a little about it in the interview but it's pretty clear it's a work in progress and wouldn't have helped this year.

MU82

Quote from: Norm on April 23, 2019, 10:01:07 PM

They got to 23-4 without Greg. At that point keeping the red-shirt seems a good idea. You don't burn an agreed upon red-shirt year at that point once you start losing. Once Wojo, Greg and his family decided to red-shirt the best thing to do for the player is to continue the plan. He had re-injured his hand once already, coming back too soon may have risked another injury.

This.

If we were 9-4 or 8-5 in non-con, with only 1 or no good wins, I could see bringing Elliott back. But we were 11-2, better than most thought we'd be, and then we ripped off 12 of 13 after losing our BEast opener to St. John's. There were few times when we were in the middle of that stretch that folks were thinking, "Uh-oh, better activate Greg!"

It's easy with 20/20 hindsight to say we should have. Now we have him for 3 years, and if he's any good that will be a great thing.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Oregon Warrior

Quote from: genious expert on April 23, 2019, 10:20:19 PM
Greg is not a PG and I really don't understand why everybody thinks he is. He has never played PG, not even in HS.

And yes I see that he talks a little about it in the interview but it's pretty clear it's a work in progress and wouldn't have helped this year.

Neither is Koby McEwen. Elliott and McEwen May be able to handle the ball but why do people believe Howard is going to be spending considerable time playing off the ball this coming season? Has the coaching staff discussed this or is it wishful thinking?

MUHoopsFan2

#8
You all are getting what a PG is ...mixed up a bit in this case I think. Maybe not...but I think this situation is going to be unique.

They all can play PG and set up others as well as be active on the offensive and the defensive end themselves. Did Villanova have a pure PG over the years?

J. Brunson and the other kid Archie D I guess were but they could also lead vocally and score if needed.

It all comes down to ball handling, vocal leadership and how to create and get others good shots or in position to get the best shot they can as quickly and as easy as they can.

Some PG's set up others better and create easy shots and space for others due to the fact that they can get wherever they want on the floor and score as well.

There are combo-guards [which is what you really want, which is versatility.] and you have a natural or pure PG's who can't shoot or get their own shot a lick, but pass off to others.

On this team next year, EVERYONE will need to handle the ball at times. Not just one guy like this past year.

There are point guards and point forwards. . . and point defenders all at the point of attack.  I think this team will be unique in that the guy who is the point defender or deflector on D, will be at the point of attack on offense.

And from play to play. . . that might be different.

The Sultan

Quote from: genious expert on April 23, 2019, 10:20:19 PM
Greg is not a PG and I really don't understand why everybody thinks he is. He has never played PG, not even in HS.

And yes I see that he talks a little about it in the interview but it's pretty clear it's a work in progress and wouldn't have helped this year.


I would have rather had him on the floor than Chartouny.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

tower912

Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

mu03eng

Honestly, I think Wojo felt the pressure this season to deliver results. Previous seasons he kept his bench relatively long trying to max the development of players in season to give himself options plus build for the next season. This year he went all in to produce results in the season. He shortened the bench and went max usage with Markus. It absolutely worked until it didn't (because of Markus injury) and then there wasnt an alternative approach or different lineup that could be applied to get us through those last 7 games.

Throw in a player insurrection and we see what happens.

If Greg had been healthy all season, Wojo has a lot more roster flexibility. C'est la vie

Next year we should have a too 25 defense, it's really just a question of whether or not we can have a top 40 offense
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

The Equalizer

Quote from: MU82 on April 23, 2019, 11:10:48 PM
This.

If we were 9-4 or 8-5 in non-con, with only 1 or no good wins, I could see bringing Elliott back. But we were 11-2, better than most thought we'd be, and then we ripped off 12 of 13 after losing our BEast opener to St. John's. There were few times when we were in the middle of that stretch that folks were thinking, "Uh-oh, better activate Greg!"

It's easy with 20/20 hindsight to say we should have. Now we have him for 3 years, and if he's any good that will be a great thing.

Wojo would have taken a huge amount of crap for lifting the redshirt regardless of whether our outcome with him in the lineup:

If Greg is the difference and we wind up winning, say, four or five of the last six games, the board would be non-stop comments of:  "Wojo wasted a year of Greg's eligibility for what?  We were winning just fine without him."

If we wind up with the late-season losing streak anyway:  "Wojo blew a year of Greg's eligibility for what?  We were winning without him and clearly, he disrupted the team dynamic."

brewcity77

Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.

I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.

NCMUFan

#14
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 08:04:14 AM

I would have rather had him on the floor than Chartouny.

Chartouny has his shortcomings.  But if you look to the left, he was SOTG twice.  The only non-starter to receive it.  The more he was on the floor the more he integrated into the team.  For his "slowness" of foot he was pretty good at driving to the basket and drawing the defense.

But yes, everyone missed not having Greg on the floor the past season.

The Sultan

Quote from: NCMUFan on April 24, 2019, 09:09:52 AM
Chartouny has his shortcomings.  But if you look to the left, he was SOTG twice.  The more he was on the floor the more he integrated into the team.  For his "slowness" of foot he was pretty good at driving to the basket and drawing the defense.

But yes, everyone missed not having Greg on the floor the past season.


He was SOTG twice because he ran up some numbers in garbage time against two cupcakes.  He's not as good a basketball player as Greg Elliott.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

mu03eng

Quote from: brewcity77 on April 24, 2019, 08:58:03 AM
Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.

I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.

Add even more importantly, Greg provides another defensive switchable that can guard 1 through 3. Chartouney was ok on defense but he didn't provide that level of defense.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

JakeBarnes

Quote from: brewcity77 on April 24, 2019, 08:58:03 AM
Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.

I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.

This. I remember a portion his high school footage involving good court vision and distribution. Traditional PG or not, if that vision and handle transition to this level, he helps the team.
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.

"We all carry within us our places of exile, our crimes and our ravages. But our task is not to unleash them on the world; it is to fight them in ourselves and in others." -Camus, The Rebel

brewcity77

Quote from: mu03eng on April 24, 2019, 09:17:47 AM
Add even more importantly, Greg provides another defensive switchable that can guard 1 through 3. Chartouney was ok on defense but he didn't provide that level of defense.

On paper, Chartouny looked perfect. But what he was on paper was part of a system that highlighted his abilities and minimized his deficiencies. Our system was the opposite of that.

Markusquette

Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 24, 2019, 09:13:33 AM

He was SOTG twice because he ran up some numbers in garbage time against two cupcakes.  He's not as good a basketball player as Greg Elliott.

Two of the biggest fluke SOTG

NYWarrior

Quote from: brewcity77 on April 24, 2019, 08:58:03 AM
Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.

I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.

Yup. And his 116 ORtg during limited time on the floor as a freshman proves how talented Elliott is.  MU was thisclose to winning the BE last season -- methinks Elliott coulda made the difference there.

MU82

Quote from: brewcity77 on April 24, 2019, 08:58:03 AM
Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.

I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.

Yep.

We still will not have a "true PG" next season. But we should have 3 guys who are more than capable of handling the ball in most situations, and who knows how much McEwen and Elliott might have improved as they sat out last season. Plus, maybe Symir.

We will not be in a situation that if Markus can't go or if he needs a longer rest, we will have to make due with forwards and/or a sled like JCS running the offense.

With the arrival of those 2 (maybe 3) and the departures of the S&J, we immediately have gone from a tall team to a small team. Bailey played quite a bit of 2 this past season but probably will have to play a decent amount of 4 next year. Should be interesting.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

mu03eng

Quote from: MU82 on April 24, 2019, 10:37:04 AM
Yep.

We still will not have a "true PG" next season. But we should have 3 guys who are more than capable of handling the ball in most situations, and who knows how much McEwen and Elliott might have improved as they sat out last season. Plus, maybe Symir.

We will not be in a situation that if Markus can't go or if he needs a longer rest, we will have to make due with forwards and/or a sled like JCS running the offense.

With the arrival of those 2 (maybe 3) and the departures of the S&J, we immediately have gone from a tall team to a small team. Bailey played quite a bit of 2 this past season but probably will have to play a decent amount of 4 next year. Should be interesting.

Doubt there is anyway Symir reclassifies to this year given current roster construction, but everything else you said is spot on.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

MU82

Quote from: mu03eng on April 24, 2019, 01:23:38 PM
Doubt there is anyway Symir reclassifies to this year given current roster construction, but everything else you said is spot on.

I'll take your word on Symir. I am not an insider.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

mu03eng

Quote from: MU82 on April 24, 2019, 04:25:27 PM
I'll take your word on Symir. I am not an insider.

Not necessarily insider knowledge, just a log jam of guards for next season that it doesn't make sense for Symir to waste a year of eligibility trying to break through said log jam.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

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