MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Herman Cain on April 23, 2019, 09:30:42 PM
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Greg has gained muscle ,worked on developing his handle and leadership during the red shirt season. Greg was a favorite of mine as a freshman and I am really looking forward to some great things from him this year.
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/Greg-Elliott-131394963/
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Allowing Greg to redshirt may have been Wojo's biggest mistake of the season. Not playing Bailey more in January and early February is up there, but I think having Greg healthy and playing like a sophomore Greg was projected to play might have:
Allowed Wojo to rest Markus.
Allowed Wojo to not play Chartouny.
Allowed Markus to play off the ball.
Provided another athletic guard to defend all of those athletic guards that beat Marquette down the stretch.
He didn't have to be a hero. Just a healthy sophomore version of his freshman self.
In hindsight, may have been the most crucial decision of the year.
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Allowing Greg to redshirt may have been Wojo's biggest mistake of the season. Not playing Bailey more in January and early February is up there, but I think having Greg healthy and playing like a sophomore Greg was projected to play might have:
Allowed Wojo to rest Markus.
Allowed Wojo to not play Chartouny.
Allowed Markus to play off the ball.
Provided another athletic guard to defend all of those athletic guards that beat Marquette down the stretch.
He didn't have to be a hero. Just a healthy sophomore version of his freshman self.
In hindsight, may have been the most crucial decision of the year.
The reason he was redshirted was he was going to miss most of the season and then get behind for lack of play.
It was not a totally voluntary decision.
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The reason he was redshirted was he was going to miss most of the season and then get behind for lack of play.
It was not a totally voluntary decision.
"I could have played against Wisconsin (December 9th) if that was needed and any game after that. I was prepared to play. That decision to stay out was made but if I had been needed, I could have come back and played any time after the Wisconsin game."
10 games = most of the 34 game season?
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tower,
They got to 23-4 without Greg. At that point keeping the red-shirt seems a good idea. You don't burn an agreed upon red-shirt year at that point once you start losing. Once Wojo, Greg and his family decided to red-shirt the best thing to do for the player is to continue the plan. He had re-injured his hand once already, coming back too soon may have risked another injury.
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Allowing Greg to redshirt may have been Wojo's biggest mistake of the season. Not playing Bailey more in January and early February is up there, but I think having Greg healthy and playing like a sophomore Greg was projected to play might have:
Allowed Wojo to rest Markus.
Allowed Wojo to not play Chartouny.
Allowed Markus to play off the ball.
Provided another athletic guard to defend all of those athletic guards that beat Marquette down the stretch.
He didn't have to be a hero. Just a healthy sophomore version of his freshman self.
In hindsight, may have been the most crucial decision of the year.
Greg is not a PG and I really don’t understand why everybody thinks he is. He has never played PG, not even in HS.
And yes I see that he talks a little about it in the interview but it’s pretty clear it’s a work in progress and wouldn’t have helped this year.
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They got to 23-4 without Greg. At that point keeping the red-shirt seems a good idea. You don't burn an agreed upon red-shirt year at that point once you start losing. Once Wojo, Greg and his family decided to red-shirt the best thing to do for the player is to continue the plan. He had re-injured his hand once already, coming back too soon may have risked another injury.
This.
If we were 9-4 or 8-5 in non-con, with only 1 or no good wins, I could see bringing Elliott back. But we were 11-2, better than most thought we'd be, and then we ripped off 12 of 13 after losing our BEast opener to St. John's. There were few times when we were in the middle of that stretch that folks were thinking, "Uh-oh, better activate Greg!"
It's easy with 20/20 hindsight to say we should have. Now we have him for 3 years, and if he's any good that will be a great thing.
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Greg is not a PG and I really don’t understand why everybody thinks he is. He has never played PG, not even in HS.
And yes I see that he talks a little about it in the interview but it’s pretty clear it’s a work in progress and wouldn’t have helped this year.
Neither is Koby McEwen. Elliott and McEwen May be able to handle the ball but why do people believe Howard is going to be spending considerable time playing off the ball this coming season? Has the coaching staff discussed this or is it wishful thinking?
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You all are getting what a PG is ...mixed up a bit in this case I think. Maybe not...but I think this situation is going to be unique.
They all can play PG and set up others as well as be active on the offensive and the defensive end themselves. Did Villanova have a pure PG over the years?
J. Brunson and the other kid Archie D I guess were but they could also lead vocally and score if needed.
It all comes down to ball handling, vocal leadership and how to create and get others good shots or in position to get the best shot they can as quickly and as easy as they can.
Some PG's set up others better and create easy shots and space for others due to the fact that they can get wherever they want on the floor and score as well.
There are combo-guards [which is what you really want, which is versatility.] and you have a natural or pure PG's who can't shoot or get their own shot a lick, but pass off to others.
On this team next year, EVERYONE will need to handle the ball at times. Not just one guy like this past year.
There are point guards and point forwards. . . and point defenders all at the point of attack. I think this team will be unique in that the guy who is the point defender or deflector on D, will be at the point of attack on offense.
And from play to play. . . that might be different.
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Greg is not a PG and I really don’t understand why everybody thinks he is. He has never played PG, not even in HS.
And yes I see that he talks a little about it in the interview but it’s pretty clear it’s a work in progress and wouldn’t have helped this year.
I would have rather had him on the floor than Chartouny.
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X1000
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Honestly, I think Wojo felt the pressure this season to deliver results. Previous seasons he kept his bench relatively long trying to max the development of players in season to give himself options plus build for the next season. This year he went all in to produce results in the season. He shortened the bench and went max usage with Markus. It absolutely worked until it didn't (because of Markus injury) and then there wasnt an alternative approach or different lineup that could be applied to get us through those last 7 games.
Throw in a player insurrection and we see what happens.
If Greg had been healthy all season, Wojo has a lot more roster flexibility. C'est la vie
Next year we should have a too 25 defense, it's really just a question of whether or not we can have a top 40 offense
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This.
If we were 9-4 or 8-5 in non-con, with only 1 or no good wins, I could see bringing Elliott back. But we were 11-2, better than most thought we'd be, and then we ripped off 12 of 13 after losing our BEast opener to St. John's. There were few times when we were in the middle of that stretch that folks were thinking, "Uh-oh, better activate Greg!"
It's easy with 20/20 hindsight to say we should have. Now we have him for 3 years, and if he's any good that will be a great thing.
Wojo would have taken a huge amount of crap for lifting the redshirt regardless of whether our outcome with him in the lineup:
If Greg is the difference and we wind up winning, say, four or five of the last six games, the board would be non-stop comments of: "Wojo wasted a year of Greg's eligibility for what? We were winning just fine without him."
If we wind up with the late-season losing streak anyway: "Wojo blew a year of Greg's eligibility for what? We were winning without him and clearly, he disrupted the team dynamic."
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Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.
I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.
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I would have rather had him on the floor than Chartouny.
Chartouny has his shortcomings. But if you look to the left, he was SOTG twice. The only non-starter to receive it. The more he was on the floor the more he integrated into the team. For his "slowness" of foot he was pretty good at driving to the basket and drawing the defense.
But yes, everyone missed not having Greg on the floor the past season.
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Chartouny has his shortcomings. But if you look to the left, he was SOTG twice. The more he was on the floor the more he integrated into the team. For his "slowness" of foot he was pretty good at driving to the basket and drawing the defense.
But yes, everyone missed not having Greg on the floor the past season.
He was SOTG twice because he ran up some numbers in garbage time against two cupcakes. He's not as good a basketball player as Greg Elliott.
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Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.
I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.
Add even more importantly, Greg provides another defensive switchable that can guard 1 through 3. Chartouney was ok on defense but he didn't provide that level of defense.
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Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.
I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.
This. I remember a portion his high school footage involving good court vision and distribution. Traditional PG or not, if that vision and handle transition to this level, he helps the team.
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Add even more importantly, Greg provides another defensive switchable that can guard 1 through 3. Chartouney was ok on defense but he didn't provide that level of defense.
On paper, Chartouny looked perfect. But what he was on paper was part of a system that highlighted his abilities and minimized his deficiencies. Our system was the opposite of that.
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He was SOTG twice because he ran up some numbers in garbage time against two cupcakes. He's not as good a basketball player as Greg Elliott.
Two of the biggest fluke SOTG
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Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.
I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.
Yup. And his 116 ORtg during limited time on the floor as a freshman proves how talented Elliott is. MU was thisclose to winning the BE last season -- methinks Elliott coulda made the difference there.
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Sacar is not a point guard. He's further from a PG than Elliott. Yet he played the point for us last year. Sam & Joey are not point guards, yet both spent some time there last year.
I don't think anyone thought Greg could come in and remind us of Travis Diener or Dominic James, but he could've provided rest for Markus and an additional ballhandler. He could've got the ball across half court & initiated the offense while allowing others to do less. That would've provided significant value.
Yep.
We still will not have a "true PG" next season. But we should have 3 guys who are more than capable of handling the ball in most situations, and who knows how much McEwen and Elliott might have improved as they sat out last season. Plus, maybe Symir.
We will not be in a situation that if Markus can't go or if he needs a longer rest, we will have to make due with forwards and/or a sled like JCS running the offense.
With the arrival of those 2 (maybe 3) and the departures of the S&J, we immediately have gone from a tall team to a small team. Bailey played quite a bit of 2 this past season but probably will have to play a decent amount of 4 next year. Should be interesting.
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Yep.
We still will not have a "true PG" next season. But we should have 3 guys who are more than capable of handling the ball in most situations, and who knows how much McEwen and Elliott might have improved as they sat out last season. Plus, maybe Symir.
We will not be in a situation that if Markus can't go or if he needs a longer rest, we will have to make due with forwards and/or a sled like JCS running the offense.
With the arrival of those 2 (maybe 3) and the departures of the S&J, we immediately have gone from a tall team to a small team. Bailey played quite a bit of 2 this past season but probably will have to play a decent amount of 4 next year. Should be interesting.
Doubt there is anyway Symir reclassifies to this year given current roster construction, but everything else you said is spot on.
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Doubt there is anyway Symir reclassifies to this year given current roster construction, but everything else you said is spot on.
I'll take your word on Symir. I am not an insider.
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I'll take your word on Symir. I am not an insider.
Not necessarily insider knowledge, just a log jam of guards for next season that it doesn't make sense for Symir to waste a year of eligibility trying to break through said log jam.
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Not necessarily insider knowledge, just a log jam of guards for next season that it doesn't make sense for Symir to waste a year of eligibility trying to break through said log jam.
Looks like they may want him in here as a RS freshman