Poll: Post Hiroshima

[Lennys Tap]

Al McGuire: I am not running a democracy.

Gato - IIRC you posted that you spoke at length with the Hausers at the banquet and all seemed hunky dory. They must be excellent actors.

[Silent Verbal]

I love how pant-craptingly defensive much of the fire Wojo camp gets when you calmly ask what they think should happen in the immediate wake of theoretically dismissing a coach in the middle of April. Its as if it makes you a better, more passionate fan for refusing to think rationally and methodically.

The immediate wake?

Get rid of Wojo now and hire one of the assistants as an interim for next year.  Call next season and the 2020 recruiting class a wash, and after next season, hire a guy with a proven track record of building a program at the high major level. 

I understand this won't happen, and that we'll go into next year with Wojo as our coach.  But he's a dead man walking.  His credibility with recruits, the fan base, and college basketball as a whole took a massive hit yesterday.  We all know that, barring some miracle season, he's done after next year.  Well, maybe not all of us know that, but anyone willing to look at this situation objectively does.

[Dawson Rental]

Seeing as the guy is responsible for a good amount of our HS recruiting as well as recruiting our current players to see things through, I think there are worse ideas.

Like stepping on your onepost.

[Pakuni]

Gato - IIRC you posted that you spoke at length with the Hausers at the banquet and all seemed hunky dory. They must be excellent actors.

Banquet occurred before another significant announcement.

[5DollarPitcher]

I love how pant-craptingly defensive much of the fire Wojo camp gets when you calmly ask what they think should happen in the immediate wake of theoretically dismissing a coach in the middle of April. Its as if it makes you a better, more passionate fan for refusing to think rationally and methodically.

What that you're failing to grasp is that, albeit counterintuitively, nothing else matters right now beyond "Fire Wojo".  As I illustrated in my earlier post - Wojo is the wrong coach for the lofty expectations most have for this program.  This has been shown time and time again.  Whatever happens after "Fire Wojo", at least there's a CHANCE of that coach being the right coach.

Nonetheless, I've been down the road of suggesting replacements, future plans, etc, etc on this board and it just turns into an argument of hypotheticals until we are all blue in the face.  Who's to say your idea of the future performance of "Coach A" or your idea of whether "Coach A" wants to come to Marquette is the right idea or vice versa?  No one can say for certain and, a sobering reality for many on this board, no one can sensibly try to predict that type of thing.  It's perfectly unpredictable.

So keep going Mr Rational and Methodical.  Keep going into our fourth iteration of CarlinoRowseyHoward.  And keep watching "PLAY ANGRY" every night before you fall asleep.  And keep pressing on to set Marquette records for first round tournament losses.  Hey - every few years you might even squeak out an NIT Final Four.

The appropriate question to be asking is "Is Wojo the right guy?".  The answer is binary.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I am certainly not aware of all who might be interested, but I am sure they are out there. How about Barnes, he is looking. How about making a run at the guy from Wichita State. How about Wardle. How about Dawkins, since we seem to love the Duke pedigree. Hell what about Hoiberg. If he would go to Nebraska, MU could get him with the resouces. YThey would all be upgrades to Wojo, and they all can coach.

Barnes and Marshall both earn well over $3.5 million per year at their respective gigs.  Hoiberg just signed a 7-year, $25 million deal at Nebraska.  While Buzz was making that a salary within that ballpark while at Marquette (which I would argue was due more to his negotiating skills than the administration's commitment to high-level men's basketball), do you realize that Marquette pays Wojo much less than those coaches (he's around $2 million)?  You want to go after a coach like Johnny Dawkins (a fellow Duke coaching tree hire), after you fire another one in Wojo?  With regards to Wardle - yes, he is an alum - but he came under national fire for attacking the Peoria sports news reporters for not "supporting the program"; make no mistake - that is undoubtedly being used against him and his staff in recruiting as we speak. 

So, let's say we fire Wojo tomorrow - he is signed through 2022, so we would owe three years worth of buyout (I would guess around $6 million).  Then, we will hire another coach (likely in the same range) for another five years.  For the next three years, we will be paying over $4 million to two different coaches.  For a program in a conference that is making just over that in television revenue annually, that is a poison pill of horrific consequences for the long-term stability of the program.  Even if you decide to promote Stan for the year (which would similarly be a bad decision), having an official lame duck coach for the next year would similarly kill recruiting and the entire outlook of the season. 

The best bet, as tough as it sounds, is to stay the course, support the team (and the staff) and see what they can do next season.  The buyout next year will be a year lower, and - if things turn south - the athletic department will have ample time to properly comb through and assess candidates during the season. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Yup, you don't just fire someone without a plan or an idea someone may step in. If you do make a rash decision, you end up like St Johns.

The athletic department will no doubt keep their ears open over the summer and through the season but it's way too late in the game to do a new coaching search now.

[MUBurrow]

What that you're failing to grasp is that, albeit counterintuitively, nothing else matters right now beyond "Fire Wojo".   ...
The appropriate question to be asking is "Is Wojo the right guy?".  The answer is binary.

I (mostly) appreciate your response, so thanks. We're just never going to agree that your suggested approach is the right one.

[Johnny B]

I hate this subject title. Just 2 atomic bombs have been used in warfare since 1945. The results were so horrific, we haven't seen such weapons deployed since.

It's beyond ridiculous to compare two college students leaving Marquette to an event such as Hiroshima. Come on, get a grip. We've managed to deal with the unexpected departures of players such as Jeronne Maymon, Deonte Burton, Vander Blue and Haanif Cheatham. We've had coaches pull up stakes and leave in the middle of the night. MU will get past this.

Snowflake.

[WhiteTrash]

Barnes and Marshall both earn well over $3.5 million per year at their respective gigs.  Hoiberg just signed a 7-year, $25 million deal at Nebraska.  While Buzz was making that a salary within that ballpark while at Marquette (which I would argue was due more to his negotiating skills than the administration's commitment to high-level men's basketball), do you realize that Marquette pays Wojo much less than those coaches (he's around $2 million)?  You want to go after a coach like Johnny Dawkins (a fellow Duke coaching tree hire), after you fire another one in Wojo?  With regards to Wardle - yes, he is an alum - but he came under national fire for attacking the Peoria sports news reporters for not "supporting the program"; make no mistake - that is undoubtedly being used against him and his staff in recruiting as we speak. 

So, let's say we fire Wojo tomorrow - he is signed through 2022, so we would owe three years worth of buyout (I would guess around $6 million).  Then, we will hire another coach (likely in the same range) for another five years.  For the next three years, we will be paying over $4 million to two different coaches.  For a program in a conference that is making just over that in television revenue annually, that is a poison pill of horrific consequences for the long-term stability of the program.  Even if you decide to promote Stan for the year (which would similarly be a bad decision), having an official lame duck coach for the next year would similarly kill recruiting and the entire outlook of the season. 

The best bet, as tough as it sounds, is to stay the course, support the team (and the staff) and see what they can do next season.  The buyout next year will be a year lower, and - if things turn south - the athletic department will have ample time to properly comb through and assess candidates during the season.

I agree with this.  If Wojo can salvage this mess, MU may have a great coach.  Considering the alternatives,  I see no downside to another year of Wojo.

[Marcus92]

I don't care whether "Hiroshima" is PC or not. (I assume that's what your pithy "Snowflake" response implies.) It waaaayyyy overstates the importance of Sam and Joey transferring. This is nothing like Hiroshima. The closest equivalent to Hiroshima in NCAA basketball is the death penalty -- being banned from competing in the sport altogether, a devastating event which can negatively impact a program for years or decades.

[Anti-Dentite]

I don't care whether "Hiroshima" is PC or not. (I assume that's what your pithy "Snowflake" response implies.) It waaaayyyy overstates the importance of Sam and Joey transferring. This is nothing like Hiroshima. The closest equivalent to Hiroshima in NCAA basketball is the death penalty -- being banned from competing in the sport altogether, a devastating event which can negatively impact a program for years or decades.

Well there you go comparing basketball to an atomic bomb...get over yourself.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

A) Did the Hausers have major off-court issues?  Or were they instead exemplary student athletes.
B) Does losing Sam and Joey make us more or less likely to win as many games as possible next season?  These are the things you say you care about.

You're willing to back a coach who willingly chooses to make his job much harder but not being able to keep 2 of his best players?  And yes, I say "willingly chooses" due to his inability to reign in Markus despite THE ENTIRE TEAM pleading with him on multiple occasions to change things: not just Sam and Joey.  If this a Hauser problem, why are we still not out of the woods on other core players potentially leaving yet?

Sorry, logged off for awhile.

I think you may have misunderstood my point. I wasn't implying that the Hausers were bad players or had off the court issues. They are excellent players and were fantastic representatives of the university.

What I was saying is that their departure doesn't factor into my personal judgement of whether or not Wojo should be fired. I don't care if Wojo wins with the Hausers or without them. I just care that he wins. You seem to think he can't win without the Hausers. Maybe you're right. I think it's possible. If he loses, he will be fired. If he wins, then he should stay. Either way, you have to give him the chance. You can't just fire him because you think he won't win next season.

As for the rest of your post, maybe you have insight I don't. I have only heard of one serious rumor of a player mulling over a transfer...and after the Hausers left he told the coaches he was going to stay because minutes just opened up. I'll be honest, I am hearing a much different version of the story than you seem to be.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What that you're failing to grasp is that, albeit counterintuitively, nothing else matters right now beyond "Fire Wojo".  As I illustrated in my earlier post - Wojo is the wrong coach for the lofty expectations most have for this program.  This has been shown time and time again.  Whatever happens after "Fire Wojo", at least there's a CHANCE of that coach being the right coach.

There is a CHANCE as you put it of Wojo being the right coach as well. He has succeeded every year he has been here. Never exceeded expectations, but never failed to meet them. Next season is the highest expectations since he's been here and he lost two of his best weapons. For the first time, I'm not confident he will meet the season expectations. But you have to give him the opportunity. He has to actually have a bad season before you can fire him.

[Eldon]

There is a CHANCE as you put it of Wojo being the right coach as well. He has succeeded every year he has been here. Never exceeded expectations, but never failed to meet them. Next season is the highest expectations since he's been here and he lost two of his best weapons. For the first time, I'm not confident he will meet the season expectations. But you have to give him the opportunity. He has to actually have a bad season before you can fire him.

Which expectations? 

Pre-Hauser Departure: Top 10 and top seed
Post-Hauser Departure: Bubble and 10-seed

[onepost]

You state all of this as if its known fact. Who were the multiple guys, when did these multiple times occur, who else is mulling, who are your sources.  Just posting something a million times doesn't make it true.  I thought you were "one post Johnson"

It's called irony, look it up. It's fact, if you want to know more you're welcome to DM me like others have but you have to be smarter than thinking I'm gonna sit here and publicly state who's sharing what. I'm saying this "a million times" because some of you aren't listening and continue to brush off the legit problems with this program.

[onepost]

Sorry, logged off for awhile.

I think you may have misunderstood my point. I wasn't implying that the Hausers were bad players or had off the court issues. They are excellent players and were fantastic representatives of the university.

What I was saying is that their departure doesn't factor into my personal judgement of whether or not Wojo should be fired. I don't care if Wojo wins with the Hausers or without them. I just care that he wins. You seem to think he can't win without the Hausers. Maybe you're right. I think it's possible. If he loses, he will be fired. If he wins, then he should stay. Either way, you have to give him the chance. You can't just fire him because you think he won't win next season.

As for the rest of your post, maybe you have insight I don't. I have only heard of one serious rumor of a player mulling over a transfer...and after the Hausers left he told the coaches he was going to stay because minutes just opened up. I'll be honest, I am hearing a much different version of the story than you seem to be.

You're welcome to DM me.

[5DollarPitcher]

He has succeeded every year he has been here.

If you believe that your standards for MUBB are not the same as mine.  Therefore, having this conversation wouldn't be fair to you or me.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The immediate wake?

Get rid of Wojo now and hire one of the assistants as an interim for next year.  Call next season and the 2020 recruiting class a wash, and after next season, hire a guy with a proven track record of building a program at the high major level. 

I understand this won't happen, and that we'll go into next year with Wojo as our coach.  But he's a dead man walking.  His credibility with recruits, the fan base, and college basketball as a whole took a massive hit yesterday.  We all know that, barring some miracle season, he's done after next year.  Well, maybe not all of us know that, but anyone willing to look at this situation objectively does.

I swear this is like the 15th "crisis" that was caused by an MU coach that people have told me would cause the coach to lose all credibility. Yet somehow we are still here....

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If you believe that your standards for MUBB are not the same as mine.  Therefore, having this conversation wouldn't be fair to you or me.

Don't mistake what I said. My standards for MUBB are a return to blue blood status and nothing short of that will ever have me content. I'm just patient and recognize the steps required to get there.

[Silent Verbal]

I swear this is like the 15th "crisis" that was caused by an MU coach that people have told me would cause the coach to lose all credibility. Yet somehow we are still here....

Still where?  This is an absolute disaster for the program, especially if the Hausers end up at UW, which looks very likely.

If you want to keep defending Wojo in the wake of all this, you do you.

[MUfan12]

This is an absolute disaster for the program, especially if the Hausers end up at UW, which looks very likely.

It's not that likely.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Still where?  This is an absolute disaster for the program, especially if the Hausers end up at UW, which looks very likely.

If you want to keep defending Wojo in the wake of all this, you do you.

I wasn't aware that I defended Wojo. Hyperbole is just amusing to me.

I'll be honest, I don't give the tiniest crap where the Hausers end up unless its back here. I'm not sure why it matters.

[JakeBarnes]

I don't care whether "Hiroshima" is PC or not. (I assume that's what your pithy "Snowflake" response implies.) It waaaayyyy overstates the importance of Sam and Joey transferring. This is nothing like Hiroshima. The closest equivalent to Hiroshima in NCAA basketball is the death penalty -- being banned from competing in the sport altogether, a devastating event which can negatively impact a program for years or decades.

Hiroshima is a longstanding joke to the Buzz days.

[5DollarPitcher]

Don't mistake what I said. My standards for MUBB are a return to blue blood status and nothing short of that will ever have me content. I'm just patient and recognize the steps required to get there.

What steps are left? We've been through more than one full recruiting cycle and have not one tangible something to show for it. Even more disturbing, we've seen negative idiosyncrasies exist throughout multiple iterations of Wojo teams (Carlino, Rowsey, Howard, defense, transfers, etc).

In the words of that one guy who I don't know who he was; "they are who we thought they were!"