The 2014 hiring of Wojo has indelibly marred the reputation of this program...

[Lennys Tap]

Sean Miller on tape and being under investigation by the FBI at Arizona
Will Wade having to sit out the NCAA tourney because of being on tape offering money for a recruit at LSU
Izzo being accused of covering up sexual assaults and tied to Nassar at MSU
Buzz getting involved to squelch a rape investigation at MU
Creighton's assistant offering "not just a job, but a lucrative job" to a recruit's parent
Louisville and all of the fun they had
Dana Altman knowingly bringing in not one but two individuals accused of sexual assault (one kicked out of his previous institution who then was involved in an alleged gang rape at UO) at Oregon
MU hiring Wojo

7 of those things "indelibly marred the reputation" of their programs. One did not. 

Step back from the lefge

Wrote an entire paragraph/list just to get in an unsubstantiated rip at Buzz. Yeah, Buzz indelibly marred the reputation of Marquette. Sure. Typical Billy/Cheek.

[war1980rior]

I really restrain myself from posting in arguments, and I don't want to argue, just post a couple thoughts.  I agree with WindyPlayer and Tower.  I also recognize many posters frustration with Wojo.  Let's take a look at when and why he was selected as our coach.  I thought he was a steal at the time.  He had been approached by so many other schools over the years and he stayed at Duke as an assistant.  Why?  He wanted a tradition and a destination.  He's never moved around.  That happens to be the attitude we need.  We don't want to be a stepping stone.  We want a top guy who stays. 

Well, if you want a top guy, that happens to be someone who wants to move up to a current blue blood.  We either get a great coach re-tread, or a rising guy (enter Wojo).  I don't like the "was a good coach and is available kind of guy."  Nobody knew much about Wojo other than he was the most trusted coach on Coach K's staff for several years (kind of makes him pretty good).  I'm sorry, but at the time, he was a great hire.  A lot to prove, high expectations, but a very solid hire, just lacking experience and bound to make some mistakes.

Now since he took the step to come to us, we do owe him our loyalty for a good stretch.  I hate to say it, but we were looking at a dumpster fire of a program, with everyone throwing their flammable trash on top when Buzz left.  I can't believe Wojo had the brass ones to step into Marquette's fire of doom.  He did, because it was a destination to him.

Has he taken us to the promised land?  No.  Not close enough.  He has us on a good track, and up until the Hauser toss their grenade in the room as they left, we were looking extremely strong (one poll had us #2!).  I don't know if they intended to create havoc or just move to something they liked better.  It doesn't matter.  They're gone.  What's left?  A solid team (sorry, but top 35 or so is NCAA bid quality).  We're going to win a lot of games.  It's going to look different.  It could be pretty exciting.

How many teams have a 2nd team or better All American returning?  It's not more than 9 of 350+.  There aren't that many teams with 3 starters returning.  Personally, and I'm no expert, but I thought Bailey should have been starting the last 10 games or so as well, so make it 4.  Also, Cain played significantly better his freshman year with Greg in the lineup.  It's a pretty solid core.  Wojo gets one solid transfer along with the newbies, and it's off to the races.

The reaction of the team with Wojo (video we're all looked at today) tells me the team is solidly behind him.  They don't get that into it if they're not completely comfortable with him and trust him.  That returned any lost confidence in him.

I'm an optimist and believe there are good things ahead!  Crisis = opportunity.  I've always liked being the underdog.  Now we are again.  The team is headed overseas this summer for some experience and great bonding, and will be ahead of the competition in November.  Sam WAS my favorite player, but them leaving just might make this team better.  We won't know until the current drafting of transfers is complete.  We actually won't know until the BEast schedule is well underway. 

All that said, if it was a major problem with him, he would be gone by now.  If Markus had left, and the Hausers stayed, think of how slow our team would be next year.  I really like where we're headed.  Unknown can be fun!

[Stretchdeltsig]

Too many negative people on here.

[Cheeks]

Wrote an entire paragraph/list just to get in an unsubstantiated rip at Buzz. Yeah, Buzz indelibly marred the reputation of Marquette. Sure. Typical Billy/Cheek.

Are you saying I am Billy?

Put your money where your mouth is for charity.  Please...man up!!  Happy to prove you wrong.

[Billy Hoyle]

Wrote an entire paragraph/list just to get in an unsubstantiated rip at Buzz. Yeah, Buzz indelibly marred the reputation of Marquette. Sure. Typical Billy/Cheek.

Because, as long as Buzz was here the program was marred. We brought in Wojo to repair our reputation and it's worked.  Successful while being a clean program off the court. One head coach said to me "Marquette is no longer the Marquette of Buzz" and this was while we were ranked in the top 10.

As long as all of those individuals I named remain with their programs or retain influence over their program, they are "marred."

Not Cheeks either. My wife has made it clear we will never live in LA.

Finally, Lenny, it was fully substantiated. The worst part is Buzz went into hiding and made his assistants deal with the fallout.

[willie warrior]

I really restrain myself from posting in arguments, and I don't want to argue, just post a couple thoughts.  I agree with WindyPlayer and Tower.  I also recognize many posters frustration with Wojo.  Let's take a look at when and why he was selected as our coach.  I thought he was a steal at the time.  He had been approached by so many other schools over the years and he stayed at Duke as an assistant.  Why?  He wanted a tradition and a destination.  He's never moved around.  That happens to be the attitude we need.  We don't want to be a stepping stone.  We want a top guy who stays. 

Well, if you want a top guy, that happens to be someone who wants to move up to a current blue blood.  We either get a great coach re-tread, or a rising guy (enter Wojo).  I don't like the "was a good coach and is available kind of guy."  Nobody knew much about Wojo other than he was the most trusted coach on Coach K's staff for several years (kind of makes him pretty good).  I'm sorry, but at the time, he was a great hire.  A lot to prove, high expectations, but a very solid hire, just lacking experience and bound to make some mistakes.

Now since he took the step to come to us, we do owe him our loyalty for a good stretch.  I hate to say it, but we were looking at a dumpster fire of a program, with everyone throwing their flammable trash on top when Buzz left.  I can't believe Wojo had the brass ones to step into Marquette's fire of doom.  He did, because it was a destination to him.

Has he taken us to the promised land?  No.  Not close enough.  He has us on a good track, and up until the Hauser toss their grenade in the room as they left, we were looking extremely strong (one poll had us #2!).  I don't know if they intended to create havoc or just move to something they liked better.  It doesn't matter.  They're gone.  What's left?  A solid team (sorry, but top 35 or so is NCAA bid quality).  We're going to win a lot of games.  It's going to look different.  It could be pretty exciting.

How many teams have a 2nd team or better All American returning?  It's not more than 9 of 350+.  There aren't that many teams with 3 starters returning.  Personally, and I'm no expert, but I thought Bailey should have been starting the last 10 games or so as well, so make it 4.  Also, Cain played significantly better his freshman year with Greg in the lineup.  It's a pretty solid core.  Wojo gets one solid transfer along with the newbies, and it's off to the races.

The reaction of the team with Wojo (video we're all looked at today) tells me the team is solidly behind him.  They don't get that into it if they're not completely comfortable with him and trust him.  That returned any lost confidence in him.

I'm an optimist and believe there are good things ahead!  Crisis = opportunity.  I've always liked being the underdog.  Now we are again.  The team is headed overseas this summer for some experience and great bonding, and will be ahead of the competition in November.  Sam WAS my favorite player, but them leaving just might make this team better.  We won't know until the current drafting of transfers is complete.  We actually won't know until the BEast schedule is well underway. 

All that said, if it was a major problem with him, he would be gone by now.  If Markus had left, and the Hausers stayed, think of how slow our team would be next year.  I really like where we're headed.  Unknown can be fun!

This sd was paid for by the wojo for sainthood movement  Wojo Treasurer.

[Small Orange Soda]

Now since he took the step to come to us, we do owe him our loyalty for a good stretch.  I hate to say it, but we were looking at a dumpster fire of a program, with everyone throwing their flammable trash on top when Buzz left.  I can't believe Wojo had the brass ones to step into Marquette's fire of doom.  He did, because it was a destination to him.

I love how the legend of the Bare Cupboard grows and grows each year, just enough so that people can still motion at it to explain away any disappointment with the current team.

By this time next year we'll be hearing about how Wojo inherited a roster of Buzz loyalists who tried to sabotage the squad.

[warriorchick]

I really restrain myself from posting in arguments, and I don't want to argue, just post a couple thoughts.  I agree with WindyPlayer and Tower.  I also recognize many posters frustration with Wojo.  Let's take a look at when and why he was selected as our coach.  I thought he was a steal at the time.  He had been approached by so many other schools over the years and he stayed at Duke as an assistant.  Why?  He wanted a tradition and a destination.  He's never moved around.  That happens to be the attitude we need.  We don't want to be a stepping stone.  We want a top guy who stays. 

Well, if you want a top guy, that happens to be someone who wants to move up to a current blue blood.  We either get a great coach re-tread, or a rising guy (enter Wojo).  I don't like the "was a good coach and is available kind of guy."  Nobody knew much about Wojo other than he was the most trusted coach on Coach K's staff for several years (kind of makes him pretty good).  I'm sorry, but at the time, he was a great hire.  A lot to prove, high expectations, but a very solid hire, just lacking experience and bound to make some mistakes.

Now since he took the step to come to us, we do owe him our loyalty for a good stretch.  I hate to say it, but we were looking at a dumpster fire of a program, with everyone throwing their flammable trash on top when Buzz left.  I can't believe Wojo had the brass ones to step into Marquette's fire of doom.  He did, because it was a destination to him.

Has he taken us to the promised land?  No.  Not close enough.  He has us on a good track, and up until the Hauser toss their grenade in the room as they left, we were looking extremely strong (one poll had us #2!).  I don't know if they intended to create havoc or just move to something they liked better.  It doesn't matter.  They're gone.  What's left?  A solid team (sorry, but top 35 or so is NCAA bid quality).  We're going to win a lot of games.  It's going to look different.  It could be pretty exciting.

How many teams have a 2nd team or better All American returning?  It's not more than 9 of 350+.  There aren't that many teams with 3 starters returning.  Personally, and I'm no expert, but I thought Bailey should have been starting the last 10 games or so as well, so make it 4.  Also, Cain played significantly better his freshman year with Greg in the lineup.  It's a pretty solid core.  Wojo gets one solid transfer along with the newbies, and it's off to the races.

The reaction of the team with Wojo (video we're all looked at today) tells me the team is solidly behind him.  They don't get that into it if they're not completely comfortable with him and trust him.  That returned any lost confidence in him.

I'm an optimist and believe there are good things ahead!  Crisis = opportunity.  I've always liked being the underdog.  Now we are again.  The team is headed overseas this summer for some experience and great bonding, and will be ahead of the competition in November.  Sam WAS my favorite player, but them leaving just might make this team better.  We won't know until the current drafting of transfers is complete.  We actually won't know until the BEast schedule is well underway. 

All that said, if it was a major problem with him, he would be gone by now.  If Markus had left, and the Hausers stayed, think of how slow our team would be next year.  I really like where we're headed.  Unknown can be fun!

Well said.

Some of the posts from the last ten days are going to be really fun to read a year from now.

[Cheeks]

Because, as long as Buzz was here the program was marred. We brought in Wojo to repair our reputation and it's worked.  Successful while being a clean program off the court. One head coach said to me "Marquette is no longer the Marquette of Buzz" and this was while we were ranked in the top 10.

As long as all of those individuals I named remain with their programs or retain influence over their program, they are "marred."

Not Cheeks either. My wife has made it clear we will never live in LA.

Ironically, I've finally convinced my wife in the last year or two to leave.  As soon as my daughter is done with high schools.  14 more months. 

[BallBoy]

I love how the legend of the Bare Cupboard grows and grows each year, just enough so that people can still motion at it to explain away any disappointment with the current team.

By this time next year we'll be hearing about how Wojo inherited a roster of Buzz loyalists who tried to sabotage the squad.

Kind of like how the anti-wojo crew points to that team lead by Magic Dawson as the next national champion.

Carlino
Fisher
Wilson
Taylor
JJJ
Derrick
Dawson
Burton
Anderson
Cohen

Ten scholarship players. Two coming off injuries in Taylor and Wilson.  Two that transferred weeks into the season. Burton whose foot was out the door his freshman year and Magic Dawson who went on to mid major life with limited results.

That team was mediocre the year before and lost three of their best scorers. Sorry but that team is low Big east talent at best. That was Buzz's last team and he knew he wasn't going to the promise land so he got out.

Compare that to the team today even without the Hausers and today's is 20x better

[Small Orange Soda]

Kind of like how the anti-wojo crew points to that team lead by Magic Dawson as the next national champion.

Well, no one actually said this.  You really beat the hell out of that strawman, though.  Well done.

On the other hand, I quoted someone who appears to sincerely believe that this program was such garbage that they couldn't believe a career assistant (and not our first choice), even wanted it.  Reads like quite a bit of hyperbole to me.

Now, I'm not saying the talent left for Wojo was great, or that they should've been a tournament team.  But considering that once Wojo finally got rid of all those terrible players he inherited we actually took a step backward (Which doesn't jive with this bizarre "We've improved every year under Wojo" take that somehow gets tossed around without any pushback around here), either the cupboard wasn't as bad as people said it was or Wojo did a crummy job in year 4.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Now, I'm not saying the talent left for Wojo was great, or that they should've been a tournament team.  But considering that once Wojo finally got rid of all those terrible players he inherited we actually took a step backward (Which doesn't jive with this bizarre "We've improved every year under Wojo" take that somehow gets tossed around without any pushback around here), either the cupboard wasn't as bad as people said it was or Wojo did a crummy job in year 4.

On this piece, saying "we improved every year under Wojo" doesn't mean we will have better results every season. Unless you can reload like Duke or Kentucky, every program will go through rebuilding years every couple of seasons. Year 4 was always going to be a rebuilding year because of how the roster was constructed. Despite it being a rebuilding year, we still made the NIT. The last rebuilding year (Wojo year 1) we were sub 500. Next season is going to be a rebuilding year too. My expectation is that despite it being a rebuilding year we should still make the dance.

[brewcity77]

either the cupboard wasn't as bad as people said it was or Wojo did a crummy job in year 4.

Or we had a very experienced team in year 3, with 5 of the top-8 in minutes being juniors or seniors, & we had an inexperienced team in year 4, with just 2 of the top-8 being juniors or seniors.

[Small Orange Soda]

On this piece, saying "we improved every year under Wojo" doesn't mean we will have better results every season. Unless you can reload like Duke or Kentucky, every program will go through rebuilding years every couple of seasons. Year 4 was always going to be a rebuilding year because of how the roster was constructed. Despite it being a rebuilding year, we still made the NIT. The last rebuilding year (Wojo year 1) we were sub 500. Next season is going to be a rebuilding year too. My expectation is that despite it being a rebuilding year we should still make the dance.

Sorry, this is a distinction without a difference.  Going from the NCAA to the NIT is not improving.

Or we had a very experienced team in year 3, with 5 of the top-8 in minutes being juniors or seniors, & we had an inexperienced team in year 4, with just 2 of the top-8 being juniors or seniors.

And if in Year 4 the complaints are that we don't have enough experience, then that's on the Coach.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Because, as long as Buzz was here the program was marred. We brought in Wojo to repair our reputation and it's worked.  Successful while being a clean program off the court. One head coach said to me "Marquette is no longer the Marquette of Buzz" and this was while we were ranked in the top 10.

As long as all of those individuals I named remain with their programs or retain influence over their program, they are "marred."

Not Cheeks either. My wife has made it clear we will never live in LA.

Finally, Lenny, it was fully substantiated. The worst part is Buzz went into hiding and made his assistants deal with the fallout.

Odd... I figured you live in SoCal considering the intimate knowledge of the niche-California sport water polo you & Cheeks share

[MU82]

Sorry, this is a distinction without a difference.  Going from the NCAA to the NIT is not improving.

And if in Year 4 the complaints are that we don't have enough experience, then that's on the Coach.

I don't consider what took place from Year 3 to 4 "improving." I thought it was OK -- not great, not super-satisfying, but OK -- given that it was a transition year. Having to play two midgets at guard, including one who has less interest in defense than I do in acorn squash, kept us from playing any D at all. It's not an excuse, because the coach also is in charge of roster-building, but it is a fact.

I do look at the overall arc of the program -- Year 2, 20 wins with 1-and-done Hank; Year 3, NCAA tournament; Year 4, slight step backward with couple of NIT wins for young team; Year 5, 2nd place BEast, 5 seed in NCAA tournament -- and see an upward trend.

It will not be easy to keep that upward trend going this year. If it doesn't, and especially if Wojo doesn't have a great recruiting class, it will be time to bring in a new coach.

[brewcity77]

And if in Year 4 the complaints are that we don't have enough experience, then that's on the Coach.

Sure. And would-be upperclassmen like Duane, Levin, Traci, & Haanif left. Even still, we were one win away from the tourney.

I'll be honest, my only real hope is a national championship. One building season that sets up future success, whether it ends in a NIT run or an early NCAA exit, is pretty irrelevant.

[Cheeks]

Odd... I figured you live in SoCal considering the intimate knowledge of the niche-California sport water polo you & Cheeks share

I'll answer for me, Billy can choose to answer for himself.

50% of the NCAA D1 Water Polo programs are outside the state of California.  It is one of the fastest growing high school sports in the country, with Texas, Utah, Oregon, Florida, Illinois and Michigan driving much of that growth.

The entity that Billy works for, multiple partner members participate in the sport at the D1 level.  Some schools are studying adding the sport.

I'll throw the same offer to you....man up.  Commit to real money for charity as I have stated to Lenny and I will prove we aren't the same people...don't live in the same state, and ironically were at each other's throats a bit 10 years ago on this board.  Man up for a good cause.

[Billy Hoyle]

Odd... I figured you live in SoCal considering the intimate knowledge of the niche-California sport water polo you & Cheeks share

The only thing I know about water polo or have ever shared here comes from a former coworker who was on the US team in Beijing and played at Stanford. She is from the Midwest. I've never seen a match in person.

[Small Orange Soda]

I don't consider what took place from Year 3 to 4 "improving." I thought it was OK -- not great, not super-satisfying, but OK -- given that it was a transition year. Having to play two midgets at guard, including one who has less interest in defense than I do in acorn squash, kept us from playing any D at all. It's not an excuse, because the coach also is in charge of roster-building, but it is a fact.

I do look at the overall arc of the program -- Year 2, 20 wins with 1-and-done Hank; Year 3, NCAA tournament; Year 4, slight step backward with couple of NIT wins for young team; Year 5, 2nd place BEast, 5 seed in NCAA tournament -- and see an upward trend.

It will not be easy to keep that upward trend going this year. If it doesn't, and especially if Wojo doesn't have a great recruiting class, it will be time to bring in a new coach.

Considering that Wojo is supposed to bring us sustained success, year 4 was a red flag to me.  It's not like we were stepping back from a Final Four run. The defense being an awful, whether one wants to call it a reason or an excuse, is still on Wojo either way.

As for the rest, I mostly agree, especially your last paragraph.  But I say that as someone who has admittedly been disappointed in the Wojo era (but doesn't think he should be fired yet).  I find it surprising how many people who think Wojo has done a good job won't allow him a mulligan if we take a step back this year. 

I'll be honest, my only real hope is a national championship. One building season that sets up future success, whether it ends in a NIT run or an early NCAA exit, is pretty irrelevant.

And I think it's relevant when evaluating whether or not said Coach is the guy to bring us a national championship.  Your mileage may vary.

[Eldon]

I don't consider what took place from Year 3 to 4 "improving." I thought it was OK -- not great, not super-satisfying, but OK -- given that it was a transition year. Having to play two midgets at guard, including one who has less interest in defense than I do in acorn squash, kept us from playing any D at all. It's not an excuse, because the coach also is in charge of roster-building, but it is a fact.

I do look at the overall arc of the program -- Year 2, 20 wins with 1-and-done Hank; Year 3, NCAA tournament; Year 4, slight step backward with couple of NIT wins for young team; Year 5, 2nd place BEast, 5 seed in NCAA tournament -- and see an upward trend.

It will not be easy to keep that upward trend going this year. If it doesn't, and especially if Wojo doesn't have a great recruiting class, it will be time to bring in a new coach.

A slight step back next year could still be considered an overall upward trend. How far back is slight?

[Eldon]

Sure. And would-be upperclassmen like Duane, Levin, Traci, & Haanif left. Even still, we were one BIG win away from the tourney.

I'll be honest, my only real hope is a national championship. One building season that sets up future success, whether it ends in a NIT run or an early NCAA exit, is pretty irrelevant.

FTFY.

IIRC, MU was what, a four seed? Which translates roughly to "first 16 out." I doubt one more win moves us past all of those other teams.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

FTFY.

IIRC, MU was what, a four seed? Which translates roughly to "first 16 out." I doubt one more win moves us past all of those other teams.

We were a 2 seed

[MU82]

I find it surprising how many people who think Wojo has done a good job won't allow him a mulligan if we take a step back this year. 

A slight step back next year could still be considered an overall upward trend. How far back is slight?

Even though I generally defend Wojo's overall record because I think he's done a good job of moving the program forward, developing high-school talent and improving as a coach, I place the lion's share of blame for the Hauser fiasco in the CEO of the organization's lap. It is his job to manage egos, his job to prevent exactly the kind of thing that happened. So if the reason for the step back is that we lost two starters, including a second-team all-conference player who is good at everything, that's primarily on Wojo IMHO. (Again, I said "primarily." I am not one who thinks the golden boyz are blameless here.)

We still have a good team, including an All-American. Presumably it is a team that will play the style Wojo wants to play. We should expect him to get the most out of them because that's what good coaches do, and be able to continue advancing the program. For me, a significant part of that is to land a very good recruiting class for 2020-21 and beyond.

I don't have a "red line," really, but ...

Let's say we suffer a heartbreaking loss late in the season and it keeps us out of the NCAAs BUT Wojo has signed a top-10 recruiting class. I might be inclined to think the program is still generally showing progress.

Or let's say we get only a decent recruiting class but we go 24-7 again, with another 2nd place finish, and another top-5 seed, and we actually win an NCAA game or two. I also might be inclined to think the program is showing progress.

But if we squeak into the tournament as an 11-seed and have a mediocre recruiting class or if we miss the tournament and have only a decent recruiting class, I'd be inclined to think the Wojo era should end.

I just did a whole lot more speculating than I normally like to do. Things happen during the course of a season. What if Markus gets hurt in our 10th game and misses the rest of the season? What if two other key players do? What if Wojo's 2020 recruiting class is only so-so but he gets verbal commitments from two of the top 10 players of 2021? Etc, etc, etc ... so I'm not gonna lock myself into any of the above.

Y'all asked a question, so I did my best to answer. I tend to have more shades of gray and more nuance than some other Scoopers (not saying that's superior, just that it's true), and I also am an optimist at heart who WANTS to believe the program is on its way to being great again. I still support Wojo, but now I'm being more demanding that he proves he deserves support from me and those like me.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I'll answer for me, Billy can choose to answer for himself.

50% of the NCAA D1 Water Polo programs are outside the state of California.  It is one of the fastest growing high school sports in the country, with Texas, Utah, Oregon, Florida, Illinois and Michigan driving much of that growth.

The entity that Billy works for, multiple partner members participate in the sport at the D1 level.  Some schools are studying adding the sport.

I'll throw the same offer to you....man up.  Commit to real money for charity as I have stated to Lenny and I will prove we aren't the same people...don't live in the same state, and ironically were at each other's throats a bit 10 years ago on this board.  Man up for a good cause.

I'll gladly do that for you to prove you aren't WarriorDad