Tough Questions Need To Be Asked

[tower912]

Jaysus Tower, the heart and soul of a top 10 team transfers out and you're still making excuses for Wojo. Give it a rest.

Defending Wojo.   The questions are the same.  Sam and Joey are leaving.  Because they are unhappy with Wojo.  Why are they unhappy with Wojo?  Much speculation.  The hot take is because they don't think Wojo can win or that that Markus is a ball hog.   I am saying they are leaving because they aren't going to be featured.  Speculation, too.  Saying the exact same thing from a different angle.   
  Those predisposed to disliking Wojo say it is Wojos fault.  I, who have catalogued my concerns about Wojo multiple times, am simply asking that if the issue truly is about Markus's touches and playing time, should Wojo have capitulated to the Hausers?

40% of D1 basketball players transfer.  Marquette has been particularly susceptible to this ever since Odartey in 2002.  This one hurts more because it breaks up what looked like the best Marquette team in 40 years.  But the sun came up and there is another season to prepare for.

[Henry Sugar]

40% of D1 basketball players transfer.

I wonder what the percentage is of kids that transfer out of preseason top 10 teams when they are two of the top options.

Not directed at you personally, but I think it's disingenuous to use this talking point.

[Goose]

Henry

Of course. You do not see backbone of programs, especially dream type kids, bolt like the Hausers did. Very troubling for anyone not looking to make an excuse for another setback.

[Warrior2008]

I wonder what the percentage is of kids that transfer out of preseason top 10 teams when they are two of the top options.

Not directed at you personally, but I think it's disingenuous to use this talking point.

Not to mention at the personal expense of a 1,000 point scorer prolonging the start of his professional career by a year and the other burning a year of eligibility in order to get out.  Circumstances here are wildly different.

[Dish]

I wonder what the percentage is of kids that transfer out of preseason top 10 teams when they are two of the top options.

Not directed at you personally, but I think it's disingenuous to use this talking point.

+Infinity

Players transfer for a variety of reasons obviously, but typically I'd rank them as 1) Playing time, 2) Homesick/Play closer to home, 3) Want to go from a mid major/low tier to a power conference program

None of these apply to the Hausers. I'd like someone to name the last time two starting five caliber players from a potential top 10 team decided to transfer out of a program (with no coaching change, no potential infractions).

Unless I'm completely at a loss for another example, this transfer scenario has never happened before in college basketball.

[1SE]

Defending Wojo.   The questions are the same.  Sam and Joey are leaving.  Because they are unhappy with Wojo.  Why are they unhappy with Wojo?  Much speculation.  The hot take is because they don't think Wojo can win or that that Markus is a ball hog.   I am saying they are leaving because they aren't going to be featured.  Speculation, too.  Saying the exact same thing from a different angle.   
  Those predisposed to disliking Wojo say it is Wojos fault.  I, who have catalogued my concerns about Wojo multiple times, am simply asking that if the issue truly is about Markus's touches and playing time, should Wojo have capitulated to the Hausers?

40% of D1 basketball players transfer.  Marquette has been particularly susceptible to this ever since Odartey in 2002.  This one hurts more because it breaks up what looked like the best Marquette team in 40 years.  But the sun came up and there is another season to prepare for.

There is no way to slice this without it being a huge disaster of Wojo's making. This isn't Jamal Cain transferring, which would have totally made sense as part of the 40% and we all would have shrugged off. Sam was a three-year starter and Joey got 30 mpg as a freshman. That's being featured. If Wojo told them they were going to play less next year then his diagnosis must have been it was them that led to the collapse rather than his coaching/Markus's injury or slump. If so, that's a terrible read by Wojo and shows again he has no clue how to assemble talent into a winning basketball team.

[1SE]

+Infinity

Players transfer for a variety of reasons obviously, but typically I'd rank them as 1) Playing time, 2) Homesick/Play closer to home, 3) Want to go from a mid major/low tier to a power conference program

None of these apply to the Hausers. I'd like someone to name the last time two starting five caliber players from a potential top 10 team decided to transfer out of a program (with no coaching change, no potential infractions).

Unless I'm completely at a loss for another example, this transfer scenario has never happened before in college basketball.

Not to mention that if they go anywhere other than UW they will probably be moving significantly FARTHER away from home.

[Goose]

1SE

But likely to a winning culture. This program is not even a work in progress at the moment.

[79Warrior]

I wonder what the percentage is of kids that transfer out of preseason top 10 teams when they are two of the top options.

Not directed at you personally, but I think it's disingenuous to use this talking point.

Solid point

[tower912]

No doubt it sucks.  I am not absolving Wojo.  But, as throughout the season, a whole bunch of posters refuse to lay any blame at the feet of the Hausers.  Which to me is astonishing.   Other big name transfers, the default is to say it was a bad fit, or the kid wanted to be featured and it wasn't going to happen or they got bad advice. 

Here, the default is to hang it all on Wojo and Markus.   Nearly unprecedented in the history of transfers to hang it on the coach and the BEPOY/second team All-American.

Odd.

[1SE]

1SE

But likely to a winning culture. This program is not even a work in progress at the moment.

I know we've been of a similar mind about a lot of things and as disappointed I was by the end-of-season I thought that these things happen, we were returning basically the entire team and adding a hopefully missing piece in Koby, and was ok with giving Wojo his season 6 as the chance for redemption which I thought would be realistic to achieve.

But now with the guts gone from this team I have no idea what direction the program goes in. My heart goes out to the other guys on the team who must be similarly gutted. My biggest concern is that all we have to look forward now is one more season of Hero ball that leaves us on the outside looking in just for a NCAA berth. Is that where anyone thought we would be in year 6?

And managing the roster IS the coach's job. If Wojo can't run a locker room well enough to keep two guys (HIS recruits) getting 30 mpg happy then I don't see how he can possibly manage roster in the long term.

But again, out of fairness to the guys left let them play next season out without blowing it up and maybe they'll catch lightning in the bottle. But the whole season should basically be a year-long HC search. IIIIFFF Wojo makes it to the S16 next year he can get on the long-list of coaches for 2020-2021.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Here, the default is to hang it all on Wojo and Markus.   Nearly unprecedented in the history of transfers to hang it on the coach and the BEPOY/second team All-American.

Odd.

I agree it is odd -- this is the most abnormal transfer situation in MU history.  I am sure there is plenty of individual blame to go around, but if you are thinking about the 'program' then Wojo has to be at the center. 

[Anti-Dentite]

Defending Wojo.   The questions are the same.  Sam and Joey are leaving.  Because they are unhappy with Wojo.  Why are they unhappy with Wojo?  Much speculation.  The hot take is because they don't think Wojo can win or that that Markus is a ball hog.   I am saying they are leaving because they aren't going to be featured.  Speculation, too.  Saying the exact same thing from a different angle.   
  Those predisposed to disliking Wojo say it is Wojos fault.  I, who have catalogued my concerns about Wojo multiple times, am simply asking that if the issue truly is about Markus's touches and playing time, should Wojo have capitulated to the Hausers?

40% of D1 basketball players transfer.  Marquette has been particularly susceptible to this ever since Odartey in 2002.  This one hurts more because it breaks up what looked like the best Marquette team in 40 years.  But the sun came up and there is another season to prepare for.

You can attempt to defend Wojo on any singular issue and make a case for him, what you can't defend is the overall direction of this program, cumulatively, he hasn't gotten it done and yesterday the program became a dumpster fire. Wojo is not up to this, it's okay to realize it and admit it.

[ATL MU Warrior]

There is no way to slice this without it being a huge disaster of Wojo's making. This isn't Jamal Cain transferring, which would have totally made sense as part of the 40% and we all would have shrugged off. Sam was a three-year starter and Joey got 30 mpg as a freshman. That's being featured. If Wojo told them they were going to play less next year then his diagnosis must have been it was them that led to the collapse rather than his coaching/Markus's injury or slump. If so, that's a terrible read by Wojo and shows again he has no clue how to assemble talent into a winning basketball team.

Or, he's had that same conversation with all of the major minute loggers from last year (Sam, Joey, Markus, Sacar), told them to expect to see those minutes decline/roles change somewhat due to the new players coming in next year, and two of the four couldn't handle it and decided to leave.  That's just as plausible as what you've outlined above.

Listen, I liked the Hausers a lot and they are very good players.  Their leaving is a big blow.  However, to pretend that their isn't some blame on them in this whole scenario doesn't pass the smell test.  In fact, this whole thing reeks of selfishness and a sense of entitlement on their part. 

It's incumbent on Wojo to fill their spots with impact players...i don't know if he can, but I am going to be rooting like hell for him to do so.  I personally want some guys that are multi-dimensional, can do more than just shoot threes and rebound.  Slashers, athletes, guys who can facilitate offense. 

Let's see if he can do it.

[connie]

Or, he's had that same conversation with all of the major minute loggers from last year (Sam, Joey, Markus, Sacar), told them to expect to see those minutes decline/roles change somewhat due to the new players coming in next year, and two of the four couldn't handle it and decided to leave.  That's just as plausible as what you've outlined above.

Do you seriously expect that there was going to be a significant change in Sam's minutes next year?  Do you seriously think that Sam hasn't known for at least two years it was likely that Marcus was going to be the featured dude going into next year, and that Sam was going to be 1a or #2?  I just can't.  I am willing to place some responsibility on the Hausers, but let's be clear where the responsibility for directing this program lies.  This is a S show of epic proportions.  People can trot out their attempts to gloss over this mess, but the fact no one can point to a situation like this happening before makes this, by definition, unique.  The number 2 and 3 players on a team expected to be in the top ten next year, one with only a year of eligibility left,  just abandoned your program, and Wojo either caused it or couldn't stop it.  Please tell me how that is anything but a massive failure?

[1SE]

Do you seriously expect that there was going to be a significant change in Sam's minutes next year?  Do you seriously think that Sam hasn't known for at least two years it was likely that Marcus was going to be the featured dude going into next year, and that Sam was going to be 1a or #2?  I just can't.  I am willing to place some responsibility on the Hausers, but let's be clear where the responsibility for directing this program lies.  This is a S show of epic proportions.  People can trot out their attempts to gloss over this mess, but the fact no one can point to a situation like this happening before makes this, by definition, unique.  The number 2 and 3 players on a team expected to be in the top ten next year, one with only a year of eligibility left,  just abandoned your program, and Wojo either caused it or couldn't stop it.  Please tell me how that is anything but a massive failure?

Thank you, what I've been trying to say but put much better.

[Its DJOver]

Do you seriously expect that there was going to be a significant change in Sam's minutes next year?  Do you seriously think that Sam hasn't known for at least two years it was likely that Marcus was going to be the featured dude going into next year, and that Sam was going to be 1a or #2?  I just can't.  I am willing to place some responsibility on the Hausers, but let's be clear where the responsibility for directing this program lies.  This is a S show of epic proportions.  People can trot out their attempts to gloss over this mess, but the fact no one can point to a situation like this happening before makes this, by definition, unique.  The number 2 and 3 players on a team expected to be in the top ten next year, one with only a year of eligibility left,  just abandoned your program, and Wojo either caused it or couldn't stop it.  Please tell me how that is anything but a massive failure?

Mustapha Heron, top scorer for Auburn in 2017-18, transferred to StJ in a move that looks very questionable right now.

[Warrior2008]

Mustapha Heron, top scorer for Auburn in 2017-18, transferred to StJ in a move that looks very questionable right now.

He transferred because his Mom was having health problems.  Apples to oranges with the Hausers.

[connie]

Mustapha Heron, top scorer for Auburn in 2017-18, transferred to StJ in a move that looks very questionable right now.

"Closer to home"  "ill mother" "Immediately eligible" due to a hardship waiver. 

[Its DJOver]

"Closer to home"  "ill mother" "Immediately eligible" due to a hardship waiver.

Not the entire story.  It was generally thought that when he transferred that he wouldn't get the hardship waiver because he wasn't from NY.  People were quite surprised that he got it, because it was kind of unprecedented.  Haanif didn't get one. 

Edit: Also, I'm not a doctor, but IDT that "being sick" and "having a concussion" should be in the same category.  I'm sure the NCAA did it's due diligence in reviewing his situation, but it seems like he played the system IMO.

[connie]

Fair enough.  There were obviously reasons for this.  I guess I just don't see a way given the situation that those "reasons" couldn't be addressed.

[dw3dw3dw3]

Fair enough.  There were obviously reasons for this.  I guess I just don't see a way given the situation that those "reasons" couldn't be addressed.

Feels like the proof needed for waivers these days are available on the sites that somehow make it legit for non-seeing impaired people to bring full size dogs on planes. Sam has to be close to graduating doesn't he? Maybe a few summer courses and all of a sudden he's a grad transfer?

[NavinRJohnson]

There is no way to slice this without it being a huge disaster of Wojo's making. This isn't Jamal Cain transferring, which would have totally made sense as part of the 40% and we all would have shrugged off. Sam was a three-year starter and Joey got 30 mpg as a freshman. That's being featured. If Wojo told them they were going to play less next year then his diagnosis must have been it was them that led to the collapse rather than his coaching/Markus's injury or slump.

This is just a silly emotional assessment. They were going to play less next year, because there are additional players coming in that would make the team better.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

This is just a silly emotional assessment. They were going to play less next year, because there are additional players coming in that would make the team better.

I could see Joey playing less.  Sam not as much - maybe a minute or two per game?  Now, it's possible he would have seen even less shots with Kobe and Greg added to the mix.

[forgetful]

Mustapha Heron, top scorer for Auburn in 2017-18, transferred to StJ in a move that looks very questionable right now.

Fire Pearl. Clearly his inability to keep his top scorer is why Auburn tanked this year.