Izzo

[brewcity77]

We don't have a glass house.  We cleaned up our program.

We don't believe we do. That doesn't make it so. I get the impression we have a clean program, but the reason things like this come out months & years after the fact is because people cover it up.

I want to believe the best about MU, but it's only fair to recognize that the opposite is also a possibility.

[WhiteTrash]

We don't believe we do. That doesn't make it so. I get the impression we have a clean program, but the reason things like this come out months & years after the fact is because people cover it up.

I want to believe the best about MU, but it's only fair to recognize that the opposite is also a possibility.

Fair to say that no one can say with 100% certainty that any university is without faults but you do realize the massive extent of unethical and criminal behavior at MSU? My god they just paid out 1/2 billion dollars to some victims and there have been 35 sexual violence and related misconduct complaints filed against MSU athletes since fall 2012. And, I'd bet anything that the action of the brave woman who came forward to day will result in even more complaints (as it did in the Nassar situation). MSU doesn't encourage its athletes to rape women but it sure as hell is guilty of cover up and bullying female victims and that is equally as evil and illegal.

[Loose Cannon]

we cant throw stones in glass houses

What are the other options.  Silence is consent?

[NorthernDancerColt]

We don't believe we do. That doesn't make it so. I get the impression we have a clean program, but the reason things like this come out months & years after the fact is because people cover it up.

I want to believe the best about MU, but it's only fair to recognize that the opposite is also a possibility.

Yes, but when the people doing the cover-upping skip town due to mounting internal pressure that the MO won't be tolerated anymore...that's a lot more than the glass-enclosed ivory tower §€!#@$$e$ in East Lansing did. Their guy with two Z's in his name was worshiped...our guy with two Z's was worried....with good reason.

If the tables were turned and our administration let the inmates run the asylum, I would be even more disgusted. IZZO is a hell of a basketball coach. He is a scumbag of a person.

[brewcity77]

I'm not endorsing anything at MSU. Just pointing out that this stuff was going on 5, 10, 15 years ago and no one was any the wiser. Easy to be critical when the spotlight shines into the dirty closet, but I'm not going to automatically assume our own closet is pristine. Down that road lies hypocrisy.

[Galway Eagle]

What are the other options.  Silence is consent?

Im fine with critisizing MSU and Izzo but a lot of people dont with MU and Buzz just wanted to point that out

[Loose Cannon]

Im fine with critisizing MSU and Izzo but a lot of people dont with MU and Buzz just wanted to point that out

You're right, and as Brew  mentioned if we don't shine into Our closets for dirt we might/are on the road to hypocrisy and I agree.

But do we fold our tent, and not look for a solution.  This stuffs been happening for a long time.  Maybe its time the stone throwing begins and all the house that are affected are maybe cleaned up if that's what it takes. 

As to the hypocrisy tag, in my life I had a few of those moments, (Pleading Not Guilty to a traffic violating when I indeed was Guilty)

I didn't go to Penn State but I always hoped if I had any facts about the Penn State sandal I would be strong enough to say something, and endure the backlash of jeopardizing wins, hardware banners etc from the fan base.

Maybe its  the victim's ages and the ongoing length of time which  ignites someone to act while considering the consequences.

Maybe it simply comes down to which side of the scale weighs more the Violations, Crimes, Victims versus the schools Reputation, Programs accomplishments and wins and hardware awarded.

Where's  Dr.  Phil when I need him.

[Herman Cain]

I think colleges should rethink the whole first two weeks of freshman year.  Basically, have the kids in classroom and seminars all day and night every day of the week. Then have some kind of academic accountability for being in these classes. Kind of like a training camp. Then immediately go into regular sessions.  Life would suck at first, but it would probably eliminate a lot of the problems that freshman face.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I think colleges should rethink the whole first two weeks of freshman year.  Basically, have the kids in classroom and seminars all day and night every day of the week. Then have some kind of academic accountability for being in these classes. Kind of like a training camp. Then immediately go into regular sessions.  Life would suck at first, but it would probably eliminate a lot of the problems that freshman face.

This is the kinda chit that gets you to be Chair of the Fed, 9-9-9.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

I'm not endorsing anything at MSU. Just pointing out that this stuff was going on 5, 10, 15 years ago and no one was any the wiser. Easy to be critical when the spotlight shines into the dirty closet, but I'm not going to automatically assume our own closet is pristine. Down that road lies hypocrisy.

+1
While Buzz and the team took the hit in the public, the real issue with Marquette was the basketball situation was treated like 100 others that were handled the same way under the university's policies (which where not in compliance with Title IX).  MSU chose to ignore their policies and Title IX.

While Buzz and the team deserved the hit, so did Johnny from Mequon. MU's policy was taken right out of priest abuse playbook, however.

[Jon]

[MU86NC]

Glass Houses....

[Jon]

Glass Houses....

swimming in deceit
and nary a drop to drink
oh the irony

[The Sultan]

Glass Houses....

You may be right

[Cheeks]

Windex?

It was a new cleaner called " BuzzBeGone "

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It was a new cleaner called " BuzzBeGone "

I don't get this at all.  I think in the past you have said 'Buzz left on his own', etc etc.  Maybe some have alluded to the fact he was encouraged to look elsewhere.

If all of the horrible things are Buzz's fault--all on Buzz.  Why are more people not completely disgusted by the fact the administration let him stay and didnt fire him?

That's the glass house I have a either have a problem with or a problem reconciling the narrative...

IMO these are institutional problems--and the more we vilify just the figurehead of an issue the longer the real problems go unfixed.

[The Sultan]

I don't get this at all.  I think in the past you have said 'Buzz left on his own', etc etc.  Maybe some have alluded to the fact he was encouraged to look elsewhere.

If all of the horrible things are Buzz's fault--all on Buzz.  Why are more people not completely disgusted by the fact the administration let him stay and didnt fire him?

That's the glass house I have a either have a problem with or a problem reconciling the narrative...

IMO these are institutional problems--and the more we vilify just the figurehead of an issue the longer the real problems go unfixed.

They fired the athletic director, who was the former legal counsel, under whose watch let the Title IX procedures out of date.  They laid the blame at his feet, which very well may have been fair.  What Buzz did was wrong no doubt, but it very well may not have been how he was trained.  That's the problem.

One thing that really should be completely ignored is the "messed with his happy" narrative.  Marquette's job isn't simply to make Buzz happy. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

They fired the athletic director, who was the former legal counsel, under whose watch let the Title IX procedures out of date.  They laid the blame at his feet, which very well may have been fair.  What Buzz did was wrong no doubt, but it very well may not have been how he was trained.  That's the problem.

One thing that really should be completely ignored is the "messed with his happy" narrative.  Marquette's job isn't simply to make Buzz happy.

They definitely did odd things to restrict him (frosh living in dorms, changing academic stds, etc)

That has the appearance of an odd passive aggressive approach...they blamed him but didn't because he was winning.  They had odd tactical responses to broad institutional issues.  Now I don't doubt MUs go-forward intentions, but this isnt a new problem and it came out on the precipice of a much broader change in the environment.

MSU seems much bigger but same root cause.  Institutional disregard for crime when it creates either liability or threatens an income stream.

I wish these problems could be solved by firing cottingham or buzz or some other one person we can vilify.   So far hasn't been true.

[The Sultan]

I wish these problems could be solved by firing cottingham or buzz or some other one person we can vilify.   So far hasn't been true.

What broader institutional issues are you talking about?  Does MU still have issues with Title IX?  Or are you talking about MSU?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

What broader institutional issues are you talking about?  Does MU still have issues with Title IX?  Or are you talking about MSU?

They certainly did...and again I don't doubt their go-forward intentions and corrections. 

The broader issue I am referring to is that these types of problems keep coming up...MSU is just the latest example.

[jesmu84]

They definitely did odd things to restrict him (frosh living in dorms, changing academic stds, etc)

That has the appearance of an odd passive aggressive approach...they blamed him but didn't because he was winning.  They had odd tactical responses to broad institutional issues.  Now I don't doubt MUs go-forward intentions, but this isnt a new problem and it came out on the precipice of a much broader change in the environment.

MSU seems much bigger but same root cause.  Institutional disregard for crime when it creates either liability or threatens an income stream.

I wish these problems could be solved by firing cottingham or buzz or some other one person we can vilify.   So far hasn't been true.

Have you met the rest of the world? Just look at how easily white collar crime is passed over.

[SERocks]

... but it's only fair to recognize that the opposite is also a possibility.

If this is true, fire Wojo and bring back Buzz.  We are not winning enough on the court to be putting up with other nonsense off the court.