Fire Buzz Williams memory lane thread

[The Lens]

Al McGuire once said to Mike Deane of Aaron Hutchins, you need him a lot more than he needs you. 

There are 350+ D1 jobs but only 1 Buzz.  If I was MU, I would have worked harder to to get Buzz to work harder, at MU.

[The Sultan]

Al McGuire once said to Mike Deane of Aaron Hutchins, you need him a lot more than he needs you. 

There are 350+ D1 jobs but only 1 Buzz.  If I was MU, I would have worked harder to to get Buzz to work harder, at MU.

Marquette didn't need Buzz Williams.

[Goose]

Bocephys

Yeah, I am big Buzz guy. In a profession that is littered with "bad character" guys, I would put Buzz on a six on a 1-10 scale.

I loved the way he supported his players, the type of player he recruited and the style of play they played. He created an us against the world mindset and that is my style.

As for his character, I think he 100% cashed it in his last season and made him against the brass. Not a big fan of that, but a decision I believe he made. MU gave him a chance and paid him well, he should have handled his final season better.

As I said earlier, I think he is a six on the scale of running a clean program. I could stomach that as a fan completely, minus anything to do with misbehavior with women. That said, I probably would not want to be his boss and constantly feeling the need to micro manage him. MU was not wrong for wanting him to toe the line.

Again, I am a MU basketball fan and his tenure was the closest to the old days by a wide margin. That is fine and dandy for me to approve, but means nothing in the big picture.

MU did what they believed to be best for the university and I have no gripes with that. Buzz is a strange dude and not for everyone. My guess is that there likely is a long list of his former players that love him. In my world, that means something.

[skianth16]

Marquette didn't need Buzz Williams.

Sure, MU didn't need Buzz. We don't need to have a top tier basketball team. Heck, we don't even really need a basketball program at all. But having a basketball program sure does seem to benefit the university. And having a winning basketball team is an even bigger benefit.

Buzz has proven himself to be a pretty darn good head coach. There may be other coaches out there better than him, but Marquette isn't exactly in the running to get them. Keeping a coach that was able to make a few sweet 16s and an elite 8 is usually a pretty good idea. Those guys don't grow on trees.

Plus, rebuilding sucks, and it takes time. It sure seems a lot easier to work with the talented guy you have rather than choosing to start over. We were winning and getting guys into the NBA under Buzz. What have we gotten since he left?

[Galway Eagle]

Sure, MU didn't need Buzz. We don't need to have a top tier basketball team. Heck, we don't even really need a basketball program at all. But having a basketball program sure does seem to benefit the university. And having a winning basketball team is an even bigger benefit.

Buzz has proven himself to be a pretty darn good head coach. There may be other coaches out there better than him, but Marquette isn't exactly in the running to get them. Keeping a coach that was able to make a few sweet 16s and an elite 8 is usually a pretty good idea. Those guys don't grow on trees.

Plus, rebuilding sucks, and it takes time. It sure seems a lot easier to work with the talented guy you have rather than choosing to start over. We were winning and getting guys into the NBA under Buzz. What have we gotten since he left?

The irony of you posting this on a thread linked to a fire buzz Williams thread that you started is hilarious.

[skianth16]

The irony of you posting this on a thread linked to a fire buzz Williams thread that you started is hilarious.

You know, people can change their mind over the course of 10 years.

Throughout the first year of Buzz, I was very frustrated watching an assistant take over a good program and go through the growing pains of taking on a bigger job. I thought we could have and should have gotten a seasoned head coach to take over the program. But after seeing what he was capable of after that first year, I began to really like the guy. It's as simple as that.

And that initial thread dredged back up 10 years later looks like it was posted on the day of a loss. So, that was probably a lot of venting frustration. Now, looking back objectively at what Buzz accomplished, it's very clear he was a good coach. One of the best we've had at MU.

[Galway Eagle]

You know, people can change their mind over the course of 10 years.

Throughout the first year of Buzz, I was very frustrated watching an assistant take over a good program and go through the growing pains of taking on a bigger job. I thought we could have and should have gotten a seasoned head coach to take over the program. But after seeing what he was capable of after that first year, I began to really like the guy. It's as simple as that.

And that initial thread dredged back up 10 years later looks like it was posted on the day of a loss. So, that was probably a lot of venting frustration. Now, looking back objectively at what Buzz accomplished, it's very clear he was a good coach. One of the best we've had at MU.

So we shouldn't take anything you say near losses at face value?

[Mutaman]

Bocephys

Yeah, I am big Buzz guy. In a profession that is littered with "bad character" guys, I would put Buzz on a six on a 1-10 scale.

For those of us who are not in the know, why don't you state some actual facts to support this statement.

[tower912]

You know, people can change their mind over the course of 10 years.

Throughout the first year of Buzz, I was very frustrated watching an assistant take over a good program and go through the growing pains of taking on a bigger job. I thought we could have and should have gotten a seasoned head coach to take over the program. But after seeing what he was capable of after that first year, I began to really like the guy. It's as simple as that.

And that initial thread dredged back up 10 years later looks like it was posted on the day of a loss. So, that was probably a lot of venting frustration. Now, looking back objectively at what Buzz accomplished, it's very clear he was a good coach. One of the best we've had at MU.

I respect and appreciate this post.

[Cheeks]

Al McGuire once said to Mike Deane of Aaron Hutchins, you need him a lot more than he needs you. 

There are 350+ D1 jobs but only 1 Buzz.  If I was MU, I would have worked harder to to get Buzz to work harder, at MU.

Uhm, he was getting paid to do a job....millions of dollars a year. He needed to do that job.

[Mutaman]

I happened to know too - straight from the mouths of those MU had to hire. Is that ok?

i suspect I am the only one on MU Scoop who has no idea "what went on". So I just read what Chico's posts during one of his non- suspension periods and assume the opposite happened.

[NickelDimer]

What aspect of it? That a better coach would've gotten more out of 09? That  11 was an extremely meh season? That anybody could've won with the 12 team?

Buzz is a hell of a coach with bonafides! There's no disputing that.

[Cheeks]

You know, people can change their mind over the course of 10 years.

Throughout the first year of Buzz, I was very frustrated watching an assistant take over a good program and go through the growing pains of taking on a bigger job. I thought we could have and should have gotten a seasoned head coach to take over the program. But after seeing what he was capable of after that first year, I began to really like the guy. It's as simple as that.

And that initial thread dredged back up 10 years later looks like it was posted on the day of a loss. So, that was probably a lot of venting frustration. Now, looking back objectively at what Buzz accomplished, it's very clear he was a good coach. One of the best we've had at MU.

Buzz was a head coach before he became an assistant at MU, just for clarity. 

[skianth16]

So we shouldn't take anything you say near losses at face value?

Haha, that's probably a good rule of thumb.

[Galway Eagle]

Buzz is a hell of a coach with bonafides! There's no disputing that.

That's not an argument, that's just reiterating an opinion.

I said he was a hell of a coach in 2010 and 2013. The other years I think it is more than warranted to question Buzz's coach capabilities at MU for the reasons I listed.

[NickelDimer]

That's not an argument, that's just reiterating an opinion.

I said he was a hell of a coach in 2010 and 2013. The other years I think it is more than warranted to question Buzz's coach capabilities at MU for the reasons I listed.

You started the post claiming Buzz is overrated on this board. He's not.

[Galway Eagle]

You started the post claiming Buzz is overrated on this board. He's not.

I then said my take on each of his seasons. Which was I wrong about? The only one I see as up for debate is the take on the 09 season.

Because you can't agree with my takes on those seasons and then say that he's not overrated. People gush over the 11 season's march run forgetting the regular season. People remember we went to the sweet 16 in 12 and Jae won BE POY but forget that we had a wide open bracket to the FF with Missouri and Michigan St losing but choked. People somehow excuse 14 and put it on Wojo. I gave Buzz due credit for his 2 well done coaching jobs

[The Sultan]

Sure, MU didn't need Buzz. We don't need to have a top tier basketball team. Heck, we don't even really need a basketball program at all. But having a basketball program sure does seem to benefit the university. And having a winning basketball team is an even bigger benefit.

Buzz has proven himself to be a pretty darn good head coach. There may be other coaches out there better than him, but Marquette isn't exactly in the running to get them. Keeping a coach that was able to make a few sweet 16s and an elite 8 is usually a pretty good idea. Those guys don't grow on trees.

Plus, rebuilding sucks, and it takes time. It sure seems a lot easier to work with the talented guy you have rather than choosing to start over. We were winning and getting guys into the NBA under Buzz. What have we gotten since he left?

Winning. You must not be paying attention.

[Cheeks]

You started the post claiming Buzz is overrated on this board. He's not.

Matter of opinion. 

[NickelDimer]

Matter of opinion.

Results speak for themselves

[Cheeks]

Results speak for themselves

Which ones, the year 6 not even making any tournament when he should have riding high off the previous trips and picked 1st? 

The blown Washington NCAA game, or do none of those types of things count unless Wojo or someone other than Buzz is doing them? 

[muguru]

Which ones, the year 6 not even making any tournament when he should have riding high off the previous trips and picked 1st? 

The blown Washington NCAA game, or do none of those types of things count unless Wojo or someone other than Buzz is doing them?

You know Chicos...you keep bringing up how Buzz missed the tourney his last year..That was the ONLY year he missed the tourney at MU. But, my question is...how come you make it out to be such a big deal that he missed the tourney ONE year, and your boy Wojo has missed 3 out of 5 years but that's okay to you?? Not only has he missed, but the two times he did make it, he was blown out. Buzz won 8 tourney games in his time at MU. The blown washington game?? Tourney's a crap shoot according to you. But...okay Buzz blew it...hell, I'd have loved Wojo to even be in a position(ie a close game) to blow one of his two tourney games. Buzz was easily the second best Coach in MU history...not debatable.

[Lennys Tap]

I gave Buzz due credit for his 2 well done coaching jobs

I would give Buzz credit for 5 well done coaching jobs in 6 years.

But maybe you're just a really tough grader. If Buzz is 2 for 6 though, then Crean is 1 for 9 and Wojo is 0 for 5.

[Galway Eagle]

I would give Buzz credit for 5 well done coaching jobs in 6 years.

But maybe you're just a really tough grader. If Buzz is 2 for 6 though, then Crean is 1 for 9 and Wojo is 0 for 5.

Honestly tell me do you think 18-13 (9-9) regular season is a successful year? It's mind boggling how two wins in the tournament make everybody forget just how not great that season was. We weren't in the tournament without beating Providence and West Virginia in the BE tournament and if I remember correctly we were still sweating it out on selection Sunday. I'm sorry that is not a well done coaching job.

In 2009 he inherited 4 of the best players to wear an MU uniform since the last of Al's guys left. I get DJ going down was awful but I maintain that a better coach could've done just fine with 3 of the best players in the past 30 years remaining.

In 2012 can you honestly tell me you're happy with where we left in March? Especially when you realise that Missouri and Michigan St were eliminated in our bracket?Even beyond that I am confident that almost any coach could've won with that team, but I'll give Buzz credit for putting them together all the same.
 
Those are the three years in question. One is unequivecally not a well done coaching job, another were not his players and he choked at the first sign of adversity. The last we did terrible in March for how great that team was, yet we bend over for buzz choking that year due to a bad matchup while hating Wojo for bad matchups.

[Cheeks]

You know Chicos...you keep bringing up how Buzz missed the tourney his last year..That was the ONLY year he missed the tourney at MU. But, my question is...how come you make it out to be such a big deal that he missed the tourney ONE year, and your boy Wojo has missed 3 out of 5 years but that's okay to you?? Not only has he missed, but the two times he did make it, he was blown out. Buzz won 8 tourney games in his time at MU. The blown washington game?? Tourney's a crap shoot according to you. But...okay Buzz blew it...hell, I'd have loved Wojo to even be in a position(ie a close game) to blow one of his two tourney games. Buzz was easily the second best Coach in MU history...not debatable.

It is a crapshoot in who you play, where you play...how you play not so much.  Which is why I said our loss to Murray State was because of how we played, but it didn't help that it was a horrible matchup for us.

To your other question, why is it that you bark that year five and he doesn't win a NCAA game, but Year 6 for Buzz for a team picked to win the Big East you let it slide? 

Wojo has to clean up Buzz's roster mess, including sending Mayo and others on their way.  He inherited a team that didn't make any tournament.  You keep saying he inherited a great program, that's fine and dandy but the immediate roster was not that great...so much so the great Brent Williams couldn't do anything with it.  That's the difference.

Also this, Buzz is a better coach than Wojo.  At least for now.  That may change or it may not. But a lot goes into being the coach at MU, outside the lines of the court included.  This is the part you haven't cared about, you aren't an alum, don't run the university.  Buzz's teams won 8 NCAA games in 6 years...well done.  6 years that were much different than the 5 Wojo has been a part of.  Different Big East, different college basketball landscape entirely.  Buzz tried it for one year and failed...Wojo has gone to three post season appearances in this new Big East.

Hopefully things continue to improve.  Are you going to buy a Texas A&M shirt?