Fire Buzz Williams memory lane thread

[FartyEightHours]

I didn’t follow it real hard but was a crime actually committed/someone prosecuted in the rape allegation “case”?  Don’t remember.  I think cottingham was also let go.  Those two guys were very good at their jobs imo.  Could have been lifers at mu.

Buzz is quirky which probably rubbed some of the elites wrong and he also likes working with the jucos.  I think he had to tighten ship some but not fired.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Were you keeping track, did you have a notebook by the bed? 

Some of Wojo’s critics, some have not because they are smart enough to know how dumb it would be right now.

I also defended Buzz, but that never made your notebook apparently.  Very good coach, should have been COY as I said.....also a lot of other stuff.  Glad he is gone.

Where is the peeing dog Cracked Sidewalks blog post that was deleted for you?  Or the Cottingham was the worst hire in the history of ADs.? 

The Mother of All Egregious.  Guru's posts look like a wall flower in comparison.  No one argues that he is a true fan (just about his volume).  You on the other hand....

[Cheeks]

Where is the peeing dog Cracked Sidewalks blog post that was deleted for you?  Or the Cottingham was the worst hire in the history of ADs.? 

The Mother of All Egregious.  Guru's posts look like a wall flower in comparison.  No one argues that he is a true fan (just about his volume).  You on the other hand....

It wasn't deleted for me.  I modified it myself and explained why.   So you were wrong #1 in this post.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2011/01/marquette-choking-dogs-pee-themselves.html
 

Here's where you are wrong #2....Nice blather on Cottingham about being the worst AD in history, also a statement I didn't make.  I got to work with Steve for several years.  Very nice man, smart guy.  Did I think he should have been the AD?  Nope.  Did I think we moved too fast to hire a guy that was going to be there at least a week if not longer if we waited.  Yup.  What was the rush?  Unfortunately he ended up being the fall guy for the actions of players from a certain team.

You're arguing if I am a true fan?  LOL.  Wrong #3...you hit the trifecta.  There may not a be bigger one here on the west coast for MU, but let me guess you get to decide who is a "true" fan.  It doesn't come from passion, donations, traveling to games around the country, promoting MU constantly, participating in high school interviews encouraging people to go to MU.....nope...all that is just a front for someone that doesn't care about the school or the university...yup., that must be it.

[Dr. Blackheart]

It wasn't deleted for me.  I modified it myself and explained why.   So you were wrong #1 in this post.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2011/01/marquette-choking-dogs-pee-themselves.html
 

Here's where you are wrong #2....Nice blather on Cottingham about being the worst AD in history, also a statement I didn't make.  I got to work with Steve for several years.  Very nice man, smart guy.  Did I think he should have been the AD?  Nope.  Did I think we moved too fast to hire a guy that was going to be there at least a week if not longer if we waited.  Yup.  What was the rush?  Unfortunately he ended up being the fall guy for the actions of players from a certain team.

You're arguing if I am a true fan?  LOL.  Wrong #3...you hit the trifecta.  There may not a be bigger one here on the west coast for MU, but let me guess you get to decide who is a "true" fan.  It doesn't come from passion, donations, traveling to games around the country, promoting MU constantly, participating in high school interviews encouraging people to go to MU.....nope...all that is just a front for someone that doesn't care about the school or the university...yup., that must be it.

Kansas ticket scandal, Bobby K choking incident, Lazar and ND Prep, Fox/ESPN "me too", will Greg K. endorse you?  Asking for a friend that's sick of you tearing down MU basketball.

[Cheeks]

Kansas ticket scandal, Bobby K chocking incident, Lazar and ND Prep, Fox/ESPN "me too", will Greg K. endorse you?  Asking for a friend that's sick of you tearing down MU basketball.

I happen to love MU basketball and feel strongly about what it is and what it can become which is an amazing asset for the school, city, alumni.  Most importantly that it can be done in a positive, clean way without other issues. Do you agree?

[Dr. Blackheart]

I happen to love MU basketball and feel strongly about what it is and what it can become which is an amazing asset for the school, city, alumni.  Most importantly that it can be done in a positive, clean way without other issues. Do you agree?

Cheeks-

I love you and you have been very personable and helpful to me and my family.  I value your contributions and never supported your bans. 

I love the joshing back and forth and you take them in good form.  That said, you need to know when to give it a rest.  You know and I know, the more successful you are the more critics you gain.

Just know when you rip Buzz, you are ripping many excellent and competent people who oversaw him.  Thus, give it a rest...and I will call you out on that for every 12 of your posts. I support them (MUAD) over you (or others).  You know it is a tough job.  I use hyperbole often that maybe 10% get...that said, those you live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.  There is always a message unsaid. 

Go Warriors!

B

[Cheeks]

Cheeks-

I love you and you have been very personable and helpful to me and my family.  I value your contributions and never supported your bans. 

I love the joshing back and forth and you take them in good form.  That said, you need to know when to give it a rest.  You know and I know, the more successful you are the more critics you gain.

Just know when you rip Buzz, you are ripping many excellent and competent people who oversaw him.  Thus, give it a rest...and I will call you on that every 12th post.i support them over you (or others) ads don't it is a tough job.  I use hyperbole often that maybe 10% get.

Go Warriors!

B

I don't believe I am ripping people that oversaw him, because he got bigger than them and couldn't be reigned in.   If anything, I'm advocating for those people.

They become somewhat powerless. It happened with his predecessor, too....which is why the angst among some people that had to put up with that family.  Yes, ADs and folks in the athletic department roles have a brutal job, especially at high profile departments where the coach makes more money than the AD and yields tremendous power.  Often can consolidate that power with a few donors against his/her own AD.  It's not cool, but it happens.  End of the day, even if you are a big shot coach making $3M a year, coworkers and colleagues expect to be treated well.

peace.

[Uncle Rico]

If buzz beats Duke, scoop better prepare for the category 5 crap storm

Why?  Buzz left Marquette.  I don’t understand the obsession with former coaches.  They moved on, we should, too.  Marquette took a chance on him and gave him an opportunity.  Kudos to him for his success here and at VPI.  He isn’t coming back and I’ll fondly recall his time here but I’m excited for Marquette’s future

[shoothoops]

Let’s live in the present and future. Let’s not live in the past. Take the good and move on. Buzz was a surprise hire that worked out very well for Marquette. He left. As was the case with previous head coaches that leave, indifference. MU hopes to have that Buzz kind of success moving forward with a different coach. 

[Galway Eagle]

Unpopular opinion but I think Buzz is overrated here. He had two great years, one of which anybody could've won with that team. He had 3/4 of a third great year with Crean's players before an injury.

2009- We were doing great but I feel like a better coach could've overcame a loss of James when you still have Jerel, Matthews and Hayward.

2010- Great coaching job.

2011- It's incredible to me that the sweet 16 overshadows how meh this season was.

2012- Great team but I think anybody could've coached this team to their record. Also they underperformed in March, the argument why? Because Florida was bad matchup and yet under wojo bad matchups are inexcusable.

2013- Great coaching year.

2014- Terrible coaching year and I've even seen posters associate this year as one of Wojo's faults. WTF

Buzz had a great run at MU truly but I think 2010 being a 6 seed and 2013 winning the BE were the only two masterful coaching performances.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Unpopular opinion but I think Buzz is overrated here. He had two great years, one of which anybody could've won with that team. He had 3/4 of a third great year with Crean's players before an injury.

2009- We were doing great but I feel like a better coach could've overcame a loss of James when you still have Jerel, Matthews and Hayward.

2010- Great coaching job.

2011- It's incredible to me that the sweet 16 overshadows how meh this season was.

2012- Great team but I think anybody could've coached this team to their record. Also they underperformed in March, the argument why? Because Florida was bad matchup and yet under wojo bad matchups are inexcusable.

2013- Great coaching year.

2014- Terrible coaching year and I've even seen posters associate this year as one of Wojo's faults. WTF

Buzz had a great run at MU truly but I think 2010 being a 6 seed and 2013 winning the BE were the only two masterful coaching performances.

Galway - This is one aspect that you are evaluating.  Buzz did this AND got Jimmy, Jae, DJO, Vander, Jamil, Dwight to Marquette (think that is all that had some time in the NBA - even more if you include over-seas).  Need both.  I haven't counted, but if you normalize for years coached, it may be the highest concentration of pro ballers in the university since Al. 

[Galway Eagle]

Galway - This is one aspect that you are evaluating.  Buzz did this AND got Jimmy, Jae, DJO, Vander, Jamil, Dwight to Marquette (think that is all that had some time in the NBA - even more if you include over-seas).  Need both.  I haven't counted, but if you normalize for years coached, it may be the highest concentration of pro ballers in the university since Al.

True, but with all them we didn't actually have much to show for it. I'm not going to put in the work but I'd be curious to see how our success looks against teams that had as many future pros during the same stretch.

Think about it in 2010 we were a 6 seed with two future first rounders, a second rounder and UDFA Buycks. 2011 we were an 11 seed with a first rounder, 2 second rounders, and UDFA Buycks and Blue.

We had loads of guys get pro time but how does that concentration measure against other teams with four and five future pros on them?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

True, but with all them we didn't actually have much to show for it. I'm not going to put in the work but I'd be curious to see how our success looks against teams that had as many future pros during the same stretch.

Think about it in 2010 we were a 6 seed with two future first rounders, a second rounder and UDFA Buycks. 2011 we were an 11 seed with a first rounder, 2 second rounders, and UDFA Buycks and Blue.

We had loads of guys get pro time but how does that concentration measure against other teams with four and five future pros on them?

I'm not trying to rationalize 'coaching' -- you can feel free to pick it apart. 

A rookie coach went 2nd round, tourney, S16, S16, E8....those are the results

But you know, time and learning and all.

[Galway Eagle]

I'm not trying to rationalize 'coaching' -- you can feel free to pick it apart. 

A rookie coach went 2nd round, tourney, S16, S16, E8....those are the results

But you know, time and learning and all.

He had a year at UNO so he wasn't a rookie. Also due to what he inherited then using Jucos never had to deal with the "young team" issue.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

He had a year at UNO so he wasn't a rookie. Also due to what he inherited then using Jucos never had to deal with the "young team" issue.

OK - one year at some low-major.  Not a rookie.  Also your latter point is a choice.  A coach chooses how to construct his team. 

[Lennys Tap]

Where is the peeing dog Cracked Sidewalks blog post that was deleted for you?  Or the Cottingham was the worst hire in the history of ADs.? 

The Mother of All Egregious.  Guru's posts look like a wall flower in comparison.  No one argues that he is a true fan (just about his volume).  You on the other hand....

Amen, Doc. The "Choking dogs peeing down their legs" blog will always be Chico's "truth", his manifesto. In a difficult moment his true feelings came out and he spoke from the heart. He spoke without filter. Of course he regretted it later because he was exposed by his own words. He was anti Buzz from the jump and when it became clear (very early, to me and others) that Buzz was the real deal it meant that he was going to be exposed as wrong. He was a Marquette fan, sure, but a much bigger fan of himself. So for 6 years he minimized the team's accomplishments (great comebacks were the other teams choking, for example) and made huge deals out of minor internal problems that he ignored in past administrations (not talking about the sexual assault allegations - but a fight, a t-shirt, being in a club under 21, etc.). All because his need to be right, to be a big shot, to be an insider was greater than his love for Marquette. Sad.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Lennys Tap, is the only reason you post here to correct the record about Cheeks?  Because you're really just as annoying as he is.

[Lennys Tap]

Lennys Tap, is the only reason you post here to correct the record about Cheeks?  Because you're really just as annoying as he is.

Fluffy Blue Monster,

1. No.

2. Sorry you feel that way. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

[MU82]

I am glad that Lenny is here to corral chicos' worst impulses and to remind the board about hypocrisy related to stuff like "choking dogs."

And I say this as a guy whose own worst impulses get corralled by Lenny every once in awhile.

Thankfully, I like to think I have far fewer worst impulses -- certainly, never called kids "choking dogs," nor do I like to argue just for the sake of arguing -- but then again we're all fans of ourselves around here.

[NickelDimer]

Unpopular opinion but I think Buzz is overrated here. He had two great years, one of which anybody could've won with that team. He had 3/4 of a third great year with Crean's players before an injury.

2009- We were doing great but I feel like a better coach could've overcame a loss of James when you still have Jerel, Matthews and Hayward.

2010- Great coaching job.

2011- It's incredible to me that the sweet 16 overshadows how meh this season was.

2012- Great team but I think anybody could've coached this team to their record. Also they underperformed in March, the argument why? Because Florida was bad matchup and yet under wojo bad matchups are inexcusable.

2013- Great coaching year.

2014- Terrible coaching year and I've even seen posters associate this year as one of Wojo's faults. WTF

Buzz had a great run at MU truly but I think 2010 being a 6 seed and 2013 winning the BE were the only two masterful coaching performances.

^^dis is a bad take

[Cheeks]

I am glad that Lenny is here to corral chicos' worst impulses and to remind the board about hypocrisy related to stuff like "choking dogs."

And I say this as a guy whose own worst impulses get corralled by Lenny every once in awhile.

Thankfully, I like to think I have far fewer worst impulses -- certainly, never called kids "choking dogs," nor do I like to argue just for the sake of arguing -- but then again we're all fans of ourselves around here.

What hypocrisy?  I owned it then and own it now.  So how is that hypocritical?  I changed it, noted the change in the post which is still visible for all to see...I copied it last night here again. Not hiding from anything.  It wa not a good look.

Sort of like Erin Andrews article by you calling her out wasn’t a good look.  Sometimes we make mistakes and then we got to own them, right?  Did you own it? I owned mine.  I shouldn’t have written it, changed what I wrote and explained why I did.

If I didn’t own it, then you would be right to call me a hypocrite...but I did own it and have many times since.

Lenny keeps thinking this is about t-shirts and rides, always ignoring the lying part, etc, etc.

[Galway Eagle]

^^dis is a bad take

What aspect of it? That a better coach would've gotten more out of 09? That  11 was an extremely meh season? That anybody could've won with the 12 team?

[Cheeks]

^^dis is a bad take

Not really, not if the same standards are applied equally here, but they aren’t. 

Buzz had two amazing years of coaching, CoY worthy.  But when I read stuff here how Wojo should have gone a certain distance with this roster, or Crean with that roster, but Buzz fell short several times with the talent on his, but very little push back....it makes you wonder.

This just in, sports fans have favorites and agendas.  There were years Buzz, Crean, Wojo, etc, overachieved, and years we didn’t.  That’s an honest take that I don’t see too many here taking.

[The Lens]

What hypocrisy?  I owned it then and own it now.  So how is that hypocritical?  I changed it, noted the change in the post which is still visible for all to see...I copied it last night here again. Not hiding from anything.  It wa not a good look.

Sort of like Erin Andrews article by you calling her out wasn’t a good look.  Sometimes we make mistakes and then we got to own them, right?  Did you own it? I owned mine.  I shouldn’t have written it, changed what I wrote and explained why I did.

If I didn’t own it, then you would be right to call me a hypocrite...but I did own it and have many times since.

Lenny keeps thinking this is about t-shirts and rides, always ignoring the lying part, etc, etc.

We didn't part ways when Buzz inappropriately handled sexual assault allegations
We didn't part ways when Buzz got us on the cover of the Chicago Tribune
We didn't part ways when Buzz's assistant committed an infraction
We didn't part ways when Buzz's subordinate lied

We parted ways when the winning stopped

[Pakuni]

We didn't part ways when Buzz inappropriately handled allegations
We didn't part ways when Buzz got us on the cover of the Trib
We didn't part ways when Buzz's committed an infraction
We didn't part ways when Buzz's subordinate lied

We parted ways when the winning stopped

We parted ways when Buzz chose to leave.