Poll:Let’s stop beating around the bush

[BM1090]

How are we still having the same exact conversation in 10 different threads? Is nobody bored yet?

[UNC Eagle]

All things considered , I believe Wojo has done a respectable job for Marquette. The Big East is a tough conference to compete in. The nature of the double round robin makes it very hard to dominate over the full conference season as the other teams have a chance to scout and make adjustments.  Wojo has solidified the team in the upper half of the league.

I think the unexpected loss of Greg Elliott  hurt the team this year. It was somewhat masked during the first part of the year as Markus played out of his mind at times. However, it became more evident toward the end. Greg seemed like the kind of kid that mirrored Wojos  competitive personality and could have been a coach on the floor of sorts. May have made the difference in two or three games. Which could have impacted the seeding.

The team looks to be strong next year, even if Markus goes pro. I expect Joey Hauser to gain muscle and lose fat and become a more effective inside presence to complete his outside game. Sam should be healthy all season .  Sacar Theo and Ed  will keep improving. It remains to be seen if Koby can be as effective at the Big East level as he was for Utah State. If he can then the team is going to be a real force. I think Jamal will rebound to at least the levels we saw as a freshman as he will benefit from a real point guard like Koby and also being reunited with Greg. Anything the team can get from Ike will be gravy.

[MU82]

All things considered , I believe Wojo has done a respectable job for Marquette. The Big East is a tough conference to compete in. The nature of the double round robin makes it very hard to dominate over the full conference season as the other teams have a chance to scout and make adjustments.  Wojo has solidified the team in the upper half of the league.

I think the unexpected loss of Greg Elliott  hurt the team this year. It was somewhat masked during the first part of the year as Markus played out of his mind at times. However, it became more evident toward the end. Greg seemed like the kind of kid that mirrored Wojos  competitive personality and could have been a coach on the floor of sorts. May have made the difference in two or three games. Which could have impacted the seeding.

The team looks to be strong next year, even if Markus goes pro. I expect Joey Hauser to gain muscle and lose fat and become a more effective inside presence to complete his outside game. Sam should be healthy all season .  Sacar Theo and Ed  will keep improving. It remains to be seen if Koby can be as effective at the Big East level as he was for Utah State. If he can then the team is going to be a real force. I think Jamal will rebound to at least the levels we saw as a freshman as he will benefit from a real point guard like Koby and also being reunited with Greg. Anything the team can get from Ike will be gravy.

1. Ridiculously calm, reasoned take.

2. Watch it on the Elliott thing. That's an "excuse," and we Scoopers hate excuses. Unless they benefit Shaka or Miles or Anderson or any coach not named Wojo. Then excuses are OK.

Got it?

[Coleman]

The only reason most are okay with keeping him, is because they are okay with mediocrity. Not sure why, but they seem to be. I will get told "these things take time, etc etc etc". It's been 5 years, and if they don't do well next year, people will keep the excuse machine going for him. No one will want him fired after next year either if it's not up to expectations. People are too afraid of another Coaching search and losing players. As they say in the gambling world..."scared money don't make money".

I missed buzz the minute he left, and miss him even more now...he won.

I'm not okay with mediocrity. The way this season ended was not "okay." Wojo is not a perfect coach. I'm not convinced Wojo is a great coach or will live up to those who came before him. I expect much better things next year, or there may be consequences.

All of that said, if you are going to call for someone to be fired, you need to have a replacement. You have to have assurances the outcome will be better than staying the course. You have offered no thoughts on this.

We have a very promising team next year. If you fired Wojo now, that all falls apart. I am not willing to discard what may end up being a fantastic, or perhaps even historic season, especially with no viable alternative.

BTW: Unlike Chicos, I was a Buzz fan. But he left. It is time to move on and work with what we have. I'm willing to give Wojo another year with what should be his most talented team yet.

[brewcity77]

You love Marquette basketball the same way Lennie loved rabbits. Take a break dude.

This post belongs in the Scoop Hall of Fame. Savage & brilliant.

[brewcity77]

Yet, that's where the program is currently..mediocre, to possibly slightly above.

You don't seem to know what mediocre means. We made the tournament, which puts us ahead of 48 of 87 high major programs. Only 15 high majors had a higher seed than we did. That puts us in the 83rd percentile of high major programs.

[muguru]

You don't seem to know what mediocre means. We made the tournament, which puts us ahead of 48 of 87 high major programs. Only 15 high majors had a higher seed than we did. That puts us in the 83rd percentile of high major programs.

To me, and the level I want MU to achieve...the results have been mediocre. Not failing to secure the BE title needing 1 win with 4 to go...terrible.

[brewcity77]

It was a bad finish. No one disputes that. That also doesn't undo November through February or that being in the 83rd percentile of high major programs is well above mediocre. The definitions of words don't change based on your expectations.

[muguru]

You don't seem to know what mediocre means. We made the tournament, which puts us ahead of 48 of 87 high major programs. Only 15 high majors had a higher seed than we did. That puts us in the 83rd percentile of high major programs.

I love how people keep talking about how it's supposed to be a great thing that they got a #5 seed. And did what with it?? The idea of the tournament is to win and keep advancing isn't it?? 15 high majors had a higher seed....16 teams were ahead of Marquette on the seed line..MU the only team higher on the S Curve that lost their first game was K State. KState and MU...that's it..every other team won at least their first game. And 13 of the 16 are still playing in the Sweet 16, and two teams that were lower than MU on the S-Curve(Oregon and Auburn) Is that supposed to be impressive that they got a 5 seed and were 17th on the S Curve?? Is that banner hanging worthy??

You guys are so hell bent on pointing out how the arrow is pointing up..Sure getting a 5 seed was good this year compared to previous years, but my whole argument is, years like this year should NEVER be better years then previous years, they should be considered down years. Talk about where Wojo started etc..That's how you guys view it..I view it as, if this were typical years for Wojo, how many would be satisfied then, of NCAA(loss), NIT, NCAA(Loss)?? Not me, and that's why I don't like where the program is at.

[Uncle Rico]

I love how people keep talking about how it's supposed to be a great thing that they got a #5 seed. And did what with it?? The idea of the tournament is to win and keep advancing isn't it?? 15 high majors had a higher seed....16 teams were ahead of Marquette on the seed line..MU the only team higher on the S Curve that lost their first game was K State. KState and MU...that's it..every other team won at least their first game. And 13 of the 16 are still playing in the Sweet 16, and two teams that were lower than MU on the S-Curve(Oregon and Auburn) Is that supposed to be impressive that they got a 5 seed and were 17th on the S Curve?? Is that banner hanging worthy??



You guys are so hell bent on pointing out how the arrow is pointing up..Sure getting a 5 seed was good this year compared to previous years, but my whole argument is, years like this year should NEVER be better years then previous years, they should be considered down years. Talk about where Wojo started etc..That's how you guys view it..I view it as, if this were typical years for Wojo, how many would be satisfied then, of NCAA(loss), NIT, NCAA(Loss)?? Not me, and that's why I don't like where the program is at.

They have 4 league title banners hanging at Fiserv.  You must have spent a lot of years being disappointed.  Have a grape soda

[muguru]

2015–16  St. John's  8–24 1–17 10th 
2016–17  St. John's  14–19 7–11 8th 
2017–18  St. John's  16–17 4–14 T–9th 
2018–19  St. John's  21–13 8–10 7th NCAA Division I First Four

This post right here will/should end all arguments about this topic..Guess what?? That's Chris Mullin at SJU...Guess where his trend line is?? UP Yet, 99.9% of you think he's a terrible Coach and they should fire him..And I promise you their fans feel the same way..They are right, he's an awful Coach.

But everyone here says Wojo's "trendline" is positive and pointing up...well..so is Mullin's. No different. At all. If that's what it's based on is trend line, then Mullin deserves more time to, right??

But hardly any of you would give him that time...yet support Wojo with the same "trend line". That's pretty hypocritical, isn't it??

The defense rests your honor.

[BM1090]

2015–16  St. John's  8–24 1–17 10th 
2016–17  St. John's  14–19 7–11 8th 
2017–18  St. John's  16–17 4–14 T–9th 
2018–19  St. John's  21–13 8–10 7th NCAA Division I First Four

This post right here will/should end all arguments about this topic..Guess what?? That's Chris Mullin at SJU...Guess where his trend line is?? UP Yet, 99.9% of you think he's a terrible Coach and they should fire him..And I promise you their fans feel the same way..They are right, he's an awful Coach.

But everyone here says Wojo's "trendline" is positive and pointing up...well..so is Mullin's. No different. At all. If that's what it's based on is trend line, then Mullin deserves more time to, right??

But hardly any of you would give him that time...yet support Wojo with the same "trend line". That's pretty hypocritical, isn't it??

The defense rests your honor.

It's very different. Wojo has won 20+ games every year but his first. Mullin's 8-10 conference record is his best while Wojo has 3 years better than that and 1 equal to it.

That said, you're correct that Mullin very clearly has SJU trending up. I don't think he should be fired at this point. But if he misses the tournament next year he should.

[Its DJOver]

How are we still having the same exact conversation in 10 different threads? Is nobody bored yet?

The way we finished the year, people are going to have to vent, some more than others.  Internet is the best place to do this.  I would expect it to continue at this level, at least until the tournament is finished.  By then the baseball season will be 2 weeks in, and the NBA playoffs will be starting.  Once that happens, I expect the venting will be back down to the usual "championship or bust" crowd.

[Cheeks]

2015–16  St. John's  8–24 1–17 10th 
2016–17  St. John's  14–19 7–11 8th 
2017–18  St. John's  16–17 4–14 T–9th 
2018–19  St. John's  21–13 8–10 7th NCAA Division I First Four

This post right here will/should end all arguments about this topic..Guess what?? That's Chris Mullin at SJU...Guess where his trend line is?? UP Yet, 99.9% of you think he's a terrible Coach and they should fire him..And I promise you their fans feel the same way..They are right, he's an awful Coach.

But everyone here says Wojo's "trendline" is positive and pointing up...well..so is Mullin's. No different. At all. If that's what it's based on is trend line, then Mullin deserves more time to, right??

But hardly any of you would give him that time...yet support Wojo with the same "trend line". That's pretty hypocritical, isn't it??

The defense rests your honor.

Are you comparing Mullin’s record to Wojo’s?  That’s cute.

Guess what, Mullin shouldn’t be fired this year either.

[SaveOD238]

How are we still having the same exact conversation in 10 different threads? Is nobody bored yet?

Because the majority wont stop feeding the vocal minority trolls.

[muguru]

Are you comparing Mullin’s record to Wojo’s?  That’s cute.

Guess what, Mullin shouldn’t be fired this year either.

The king of the "flashy" charts pounding home the point of Wojo's  "trend line"...and saying it's pointing up, and that's good enough. Mullin's is also pointing up(clearly), yet 90% of the people here that support Wojo, and think Mullin is a terrible Coach, think Mullin should be fired. Why?? I mean, you have tried to pound home that the "trend line" is all that matters as far as where a Head coach is at..Wojo's is trending up(you showed that numerous times trying to pound home the point), so are we going to apply different standards now for Mullin?? I think we are based on your "you're comparing Wojo's record to Mullin's..cute" remark.

You said it's all about trend line..Both are trending up..should Mullin be fired or not?? Do you think he's a good coach or not??

[muguru]

It's very different. Wojo has won 20+ games every year but his first. Mullin's 8-10 conference record is his best while Wojo has 3 years better than that and 1 equal to it.

That said, you're correct that Mullin very clearly has SJU trending up. I don't think he should be fired at this point. But if he misses the tournament next year he should.

Oh no...it's not different..we can't have different standards for Mullin as we do Wojo, just because Wojo is our Coach. It's been beaten home that what matters is trend line for a Coach..Not raw numbers or anything else...just whether or not he is trending up(meaning, has his team done better each year during his tenure), well Wojo's has...Mullin's has..But people would fire Mullin in a heart beat....but not Wojo. remember..it's not about raw numbers or "expectations", because when I tried to use that argument it was beaten down by many...it's ONLY about trend line/Trajectory....so we HAVE to use the same standards...why should Mullin be fired, but Wojo shouldn't be??

[jesmu84]

The king of the "flashy" charts pounding home the point of Wojo's  "trend line"...and saying it's pointing up, and that's good enough. Mullin's is also pointing up(clearly), yet 90% of the people here that support Wojo, and think Mullin is a terrible Coach, think Mullin should be fired. Why?? I mean, you have tried to pound home that the "trend line" is all that matters as far as where a Head coach is at..Wojo's is trending up(you showed that numerous times trying to pound home the point), so are we going to apply different standards now for Mullin?? I think we are based on your "you're comparing Wojo's record to Mullin's..cute" remark.

You said it's all about trend line..Both are trending up..should Mullin be fired or not?? Do you think he's a good coach or not??

Do you even read the posts you respond to?

You're a joke.

[Billy Hoyle]

2015–16  St. John's  8–24 1–17 10th 
2016–17  St. John's  14–19 7–11 8th 
2017–18  St. John's  16–17 4–14 T–9th 
2018–19  St. John's  21–13 8–10 7th NCAA Division I First Four

This post right here will/should end all arguments about this topic..Guess what?? That's Chris Mullin at SJU...Guess where his trend line is?? UP Yet, 99.9% of you think he's a terrible Coach and they should fire him..And I promise you their fans feel the same way..They are right, he's an awful Coach.

But everyone here says Wojo's "trendline" is positive and pointing up...well..so is Mullin's. No different. At all. If that's what it's based on is trend line, then Mullin deserves more time to, right??

But hardly any of you would give him that time...yet support Wojo with the same "trend line". That's pretty hypocritical, isn't it??

The defense rests your honor.

Chris Mullin is a terrible coach because he had the talent he did, particularly Ponds, and barely made the tournament, could only go 6 deep on a roster he constructed and his record was aided by a very weak non-conference schedule. He was also 2-7 against the bottom three teams in the conference.

[StillAWarrior]

It doesn't have to be "either/or" when talking about trends and current performance.  My personal view is that notwithstanding an extremely disappointing end of the season, I was generally happy with where the team was this year.  The end of the season is concerning, no doubt.  Very.  But, over all, I think it was a good season.  I'm well aware that some will say that means I accept mediocrity.  Not true.  First of all, I don't think it was a mediocre season.  I think it was actually a very good season with a horrible end.  Second, I would not accept a similar melt down in the future.  So, regarding the current state of the program, I think it is overall good.  I also happen to believe that the program is trending in the right direction.  Check with me again at this time next year.

In short, I think that any rational fan would consider both current performance and trend.  Having a horrible season with a team that is trending up would not be satisfactory to me.  Having a program that plays in the second weekend of the tournament but is trending down is equally unacceptable.

[MU82]

2015–16  St. John's  8–24 1–17 10th 
2016–17  St. John's  14–19 7–11 8th 
2017–18  St. John's  16–17 4–14 T–9th 
2018–19  St. John's  21–13 8–10 7th NCAA Division I First Four

This post right here will/should end all arguments about this topic..Guess what?? That's Chris Mullin at SJU...Guess where his trend line is?? UP Yet, 99.9% of you think he's a terrible Coach and they should fire him..And I promise you their fans feel the same way..They are right, he's an awful Coach.

But everyone here says Wojo's "trendline" is positive and pointing up...well..so is Mullin's. No different. At all. If that's what it's based on is trend line, then Mullin deserves more time to, right??

But hardly any of you would give him that time...yet support Wojo with the same "trend line". That's pretty hypocritical, isn't it??

The defense rests your honor.

Silliness.

So you contend that a coach who goes 1-29, 2-28, 3-27 and 4-26 is "trending up" the same way Wojo has?

All trending up is equal?

Okey dokey then.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Guess what, Mullin shouldn’t be fired this year either.

You said it's all about trend line..Both are trending up..should Mullin be fired or not??

 

[Marcus92]

I'd encourage posters to simply stop responding to this thread. It's a circular argument with no possible end other than insanity.

[muguru]

Silliness.

So you contend that a coach who goes 1-29, 2-28, 3-27 and 4-26 is "trending up" the same way Wojo has?

All trending up is equal?

Okey dokey then.

Cheeks said it's about trend line, he didn't give specifics...so based on what HE said, trending up, is trending up. He won't let me use specific #'s to support my argument, so the goal posts can't change now.

[StillAWarrior]

I'd encourage posters to simply stop responding to this thread. It's a circular argument with no possible end other than insanity.

If insanity could have ended this thread, it wouldn't have reached a fourth page.