UCLA

[Its DJOver]

Some fans, yes.  I find it unhealthy and a lot of good coaches kicked to the curb as a result.  The results over the longer haul show the true capabilities of a coach who can teach, get them to improve, etc over 5 to 6 months, not 40 minutes in one game.  In my opinion if Bennett were to stay and continue with these results, an occasional Elite 8 and Sweet 16's, he would be just fine.  Duke and UNC wouldn't accept it.

I respectfully disagree, but I don't think that we'll find out because I think they break through to a FF this year.

[rocket surgeon]

As an alum of Georgetown Prep (an "elite east coast prep school" according to one woman) I can state there is a lot more to the Scotty Story.

That is one f#cking creepy individual.

The Roman Church needs to allow married priests. The priesthood is an unmitigated disaster - a haven for creeps and bastion of psychosexual degenerates.

if that were the issue, pay for their subscriptions to pornhub 5000 and a robot babe.  otherwise, come on jonny, wedding cake ain't gonna satiate the sick appetite for the youngsters. 

[Cheeks]

I respectfully disagree, but I don't think that we'll find out because I think they break through to a FF this year.

UVA's history includes two Final Fours from the 80's.  No national titles and up / down results for decades.  They didn't even make a NCAA appearance until the 70's.  They would be fools to run him out of town, but programs have done sillier things.

[Lennys Tap]

10-8 overall at UVA and Wazzu.   7-6 at UVA.  One Elite 8, two Sweet 16s.   

As illustrated time and again, Knight, Coach K (multiple times), Izzo, Boeheim, Olson, Huggins, Self, Massamino, etc, etc, all elite and some HOF coaches....have lost in the first round to double digit seeds when they were a 3 or better seed.  Go down to a 4 seed, and it really opens up further.  Did they forget how to coach that day?  Of course not.  One game situations a lot can happen, including bad matchups or simply having a bad day.  The tournament is littered with those teams having losses.  How is it possible considering how elite they are as coaches?  Because games are played, and stuff happens called sports....nerves, off days, glorious days for the other team, etc.  That's why.

Tony Bennett has been to the NCAA tournament 6 times in his tenure. He has been seeded #1 three times, #2 once, #5 once and #10 once.

As a #1 seed his record is 2-1 vs #16s (the only coach ever to lose to a 16 and he lost by 20), 0-1 vs #10s, 1-0 vs #9s, 1-0 vs #8s and 1-1 vs #4s.

As a #2 seed, his record is 1-0 vs #15s and 0-1 vs #7s.

As a #5 seed he's 1-0 vs #12s, 0-1 vs #4s (lost by 24).

As a #10 seed, he's 0-1 vs #7s (in what are generally toss up games, he lost by 26).

As I said, I love Tony Bennett. But while Chico makes excuses, he would be the first to admit he's done a consistently lousy job at preparing his team for the tournament. I'm sure he's going to make changes rather than just HOPE that his team doesn't fall flat in March.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It's a tough question. I generally agree with Cheeks that judging a coach solely based on what they do in the postseason is not a good strategy for success. Why dismiss a fantastic season because of 1 bad performance in the last game?

I think most programs would have a hard time firing a coach that is consistently bringing in tournament appearances and high seeds. Take Cincy for example. We can quibble on their exact placement in the college basketball hierarchy, but I think most would agree that they are top 25 program overall. Cronin has taken them to 8 straight NCAA tournaments (and is on track for a 9th) with a few high seeds mixed in there. In 8 appearances he only has 1 sweet 16 to show for it and that was in their second appearance. That's six straight years of first weekend exits, half of them in their first game. If he keeps that up, I don't think that Cincy fires him (assuming no off the court issues). If a top 25 program like Cincy won't fire a coach with a record like that, how many programs can we say would have that much higher standards for their coaches?

But I do agree that there is a theoretical point where consistent underachieving in the tourney will result in a firing. I have no idea what that point is and its probably different for each program. If Bennett gets Virginia a 3 seed or higher every year but always falls short in the tourney I think he keeps his job. I just can't see a coach leading a team to that high of a seed getting fired, no matter the postseason results.

[Its DJOver]

Cincy is an interesting example because they went from P6 to non-P6.  If they were still in the Beast, and could in theory attract a better coach if they were to part with Cronin I think the trend of R64, R32, R64, R32, R32 would be a concerning one, but despite being a "top 25 program", I don't think there's any question that they're on the down swing.  The Beast remnants otherwise known as the AAC are really the only examples I can think of where they're in that weird spot between mid major and power conference.  Other than in their first year, when 'Ville were already on their way out, and Ollie winning with Calhoun's players, has an AAC team made the second weekend?

[Cheeks]

Tony Bennett has been to the NCAA tournament 6 times in his tenure. He has been seeded #1 three times, #2 once, #5 once and #10 once.

As a #1 seed his record is 2-1 vs #16s (the only coach ever to lose to a 16 and he lost by 20), 0-1 vs #10s, 1-0 vs #9s, 1-0 vs #8s and 1-1 vs #4s.

As a #2 seed, his record is 1-0 vs #15s and 0-1 vs #7s.

As a #5 seed he's 1-0 vs #12s, 0-1 vs #4s (lost by 24).

As a #10 seed, he's 0-1 vs #7s (in what are generally toss up games, he lost by 26).

As I said, I love Tony Bennett. But while Chico makes excuses, he would be the first to admit he's done a consistently lousy job at preparing his team for the tournament. I'm sure he's going to make changes rather than just HOPE that his team doesn't fall flat in March.

Bennett has been to the NCAAs 8 times, not 6.  He had two at Wazzu, including a Sweet 16.  Yes, coaching at another school in the NCAA tournament does end up on your resume and why it isn't included by you is interesting.

Go further into your numbers.  You are using seeding as if the NCAA committee seeded correctly.  We know this isn't the case each and every damn year when a 12 beats a 5 or an 11 beats a 6.  In theory, that should happen very rarely, but it happens more than a a third of the time.  Why?  Because if you look at the actual power rankings the teams are much closer than the seedings suggest.  Does that excuse losing as a 1 vs a 16?  No.  But how did HOF Coach K do that to Lehigh as a 15 vs 2?  Etc, etc?  Because it happens.  Because sports isn't about a little number next to the team.  Kids actually have to shoot, defend, not get in foul trouble, etc.  Things happen.

Let me give you a tangible example.  In 2013, Harvard was a 14 seed and knocked off New Mexico the 3 seed.  Shouldn't happen, right?  But look at the power ratings with New Mexico at 24th.  New Mexico should not have been sniffing a 3 seed at all, more like a 6 seed.  The same can be said of 12, 13, 14 seeds that really should be more like 9 or 10 seeds.

Now, if UVa breaks through this year and goes to a Final Four, he's "suddenly" a good coach?  What if he gets there because the bracket is blown wide open, or does that even matter?  I'm sorry, but Bennett is a good coach, period.  What happens in the tournament is an entirely different experience where even the most elite coaches in the game have lost early.

[brewcity77]

Brad Stevens

Less than zero chance of that. He notoriously disliked recruiting and has one of the best jobs in the NBA. If he takes another job, it will be another NBA job.

[Lennys Tap]

Bennett has been to the NCAAs 8 times, not 6.  He had two at Wazzu, including a Sweet 16.  Yes, coaching at another school in the NCAA tournament does end up on your resume and why it isn't included by you is interesting.

Do the people at Texas give a sh!t about Shaka's record at VCU? Does Kansas care what Self did at Tulsa or Illinois? Did IU fans take solace in TC's (Wade's actually) FF at Marquette? Virginia cares NOTHING about "Wazzou", pre, post or during Bennett. His post season record at Virginia is what's in question and given his regular season success it is epic bad. Of course Knight, K and others have had bad losses in the tournament, but none that come close to losing to a #16 by 20. That's unique, historic. And they have to many big wins in the tournament to list. Tony B?  He's been seeded #1 three times and #2 once at UVA and has ONE win against a team seeded #7 or higher (a #4). His UVA teams have underperformed more than anyone in modern history in the tournament. I hope he gets the monkey off of his back, but it's there for a reason. He and his players have put it there.

[Lennys Tap]

 What happens in the tournament is an entirely different experience where even the most elite coaches in the game have lost early.

Of course coaches, elite and otherwise, have lost games they shouldn't have in the tournament. But TB, in 6 years at UVA has been the victim of  3 major upsets and 1 epic upset and lost both "toss ups" (5 vs 4 and 7 vs 10, by 24 and 26 points respectively! while never beating anyone even close to his seed line. Somebody (John Wooden) has to have the most distinguished tournament record and someone has to have the most disappointing. Right now that someone is Tony Bennett. If I'm wrong, let's hear some names.

[Herman Cain]

UVA's history includes two Final Fours from the 80's.  No national titles and up / down results for decades.  They didn't even make a NCAA appearance until the 70's.  They would be fools to run him out of town, but programs have done sillier things.

UVA cares more about maintaining a clean image than championships at this point in their development. As such Bennett pretty much has life tenure because he runs a  program with no problems and is a consistent winner.

[Cheeks]

Less than zero chance of that. He notoriously disliked recruiting and has one of the best jobs in the NBA. If he takes another job, it will be another NBA job.

I learned long ago zero chance is not an option.  It may be low, but not zero.

Recruiting at Butler would be tough.  Recruiting at Duke, whole different ball game.

[Lennys Tap]

UVA cares more about maintaining a clean image than championships at this point in their development. As such Bennett pretty much has life tenure because he runs a  program with no problems and is a consistent winner.

No disagreement. As stated multiple times, I like and admire Bennett and think he's a good coach. But the fact remains his teams have vastly underperformed in the tournament. As Chico would say, they've peed down their leg, and they've done it several times.

[Oregon Warrior]

The nature of the business dictates he will receive a raise, as much to show commitment as to ward off others. It is not the most practical approach to the world, but coaches are in a unique supply and demand position often dictated by emotions of those paying based on what you have done lately.  He will get a raise.

This

[Eye]

Bennett's record to this point sounds a lot like Ryan's record prior to beating U of A for the first time in a regional final. A very good one and a borderline great one at the end, but a whole lot of F's before that. And Ryan did it with a fair amount less of a clean image and no problems.

I interviewed Dick Bennett early in my radio career, around 20 years ago. Same thought now as 20 years ago. He's an extremely nice man, probably too nice for his profession. From everything I've gathered about Tony Bennett, the same things can be said. But if my program's goal is to win a national title, I don't want him coaching my program. Playing that style in a top-six league makes it significantly harder to win a national title. You've got to win essentially 5 straight coin flips to win it. Or maybe even 6 in UVA's case.

[79Warrior]

State school, no they will not pay a coach as much as you think, never has

Wrong

[Benny B]

Do the people at Texas give a sh!t about Shaka's record at VCU? Does Kansas care what Self did at Tulsa or Illinois? Did IU fans take solace in TC's (Wade's actually) FF at Marquette? Virginia cares NOTHING about "Wazzou", pre, post or during Bennett. His post season record at Virginia is what's in question and given his regular season success it is epic bad. Of course Knight, K and others have had bad losses in the tournament, but none that come close to losing to a #16 by 20. That's unique, historic. And they have to many big wins in the tournament to list. Tony B?  He's been seeded #1 three times and #2 once at UVA and has ONE win against a team seeded #7 or higher (a #4). His UVA teams have underperformed more than anyone in modern history in the tournament. I hope he gets the monkey off of his back, but it's there for a reason. He and his players have put it there.

IU didn’t give two shiites about MU’s FF.  They simply didn’t want Crean recruiting in their backyard. 

[THRILLHO]

No disagreement. As stated multiple times, I like and admire Bennett and think he's a good coach. But the fact remains his teams have vastly underperformed in the tournament. As Chico would say, they've peed down their leg, and they've done it several times.

I'm sympathetic to Chico's view that the NCAA tournament is a crapshoot and you have to give more weight to consistently getting in and getting high seeds than to occasional success, because it's actually harder (and better) to do the former. And I'm not sure I buy that Bennett is a good coach who somehow "doesn't prepare his team well" for tournament games. Most great coaches have done poorly in the tournament some years by chance, and in a long career it might happen multiple times within a short period by chance, so that a casual observer might say during that period the coach isn't preparing his team well. And sometimes that short period might occur at the start of a coach's career. Jay Wright for example, had a six-season period between 2010-2015 where he didn't make it past the 2nd round, despite being a 1 seed once and a 2 seed twice. But since he had already been to a final four, no one thought, "he doesn't know how to prepare his players for the tournament." I'm sure they thought other silly things about him, but not that particular silly thing.

I know that Bennett's record is probably worse than Wright's (and losing to a 16-seed has strong pull), but I guess what I'm looking for to change my mind on Bennett is some objective criteria that would help me differentiate from two unlikely things: A several-year run of bad luck at the start of a career vs. a coach who is great at preparing his team and winning games for all but one month of the year.

[Cheeks]

Do the people at Texas give a sh!t about Shaka's record at VCU? Does Kansas care what Self did at Tulsa or Illinois? Did IU fans take solace in TC's (Wade's actually) FF at Marquette? Virginia cares NOTHING about "Wazzou", pre, post or during Bennett. His post season record at Virginia is what's in question and given his regular season success it is epic bad. Of course Knight, K and others have had bad losses in the tournament, but none that come close to losing to a #16 by 20. That's unique, historic. And they have to many big wins in the tournament to list. Tony B?  He's been seeded #1 three times and #2 once at UVA and has ONE win against a team seeded #7 or higher (a #4). His UVA teams have underperformed more than anyone in modern history in the tournament. I hope he gets the monkey off of his back, but it's there for a reason. He and his players have put it there.

Yes, they did and it was highlighted when those coaches were hired.  One of the prominent announcements to Texas and IU fans is they hired a coach that got to a Final Four.  It validates their hire.  Of course they care, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

As it pertains to this exercise, it doesn’t matter a hill of beans because it should be about the person’s ability to coach...you are being selective to make a point you don’t stand solid ground on.

[avid1010]

UVA cares more about maintaining a clean image than championships at this point in their development. As such Bennett pretty much has life tenure because he runs a  program with no problems and is a consistent winner.

I love when you say things like you know it to be true...cracks me up.  Why qualify your initial statement with "at this point in time" with the next statement of life tenure.  He will have to have NCAA success. 

Defense travels easier than offense...he had success at a previous school...his dad had success...and I think he will have success...but imho flaming out the way he has for the rest of his career would not keep him at UVA for life.

[Cheeks]

I love when you say things like you know it to be true...cracks me up.  Why qualify your initial statement with "at this point in time" with the next statement of life tenure.  He will have to have NCAA success. 

Defense travels easier than offense...he had success at a previous school...his dad had success...and I think he will have success...but imho flaming out the way he has for the rest of his career would not keep him at UVA for life.

If he continues to win coach of the year honors, compete for ACC titles, remain in the top 15 like he has, they would be absolute fools to fire him.  It’s UVA, not some blue blood.

[burger]

Bennett has achieved the "status" of being fringe Top 5 coach in the country.....

Isso.....K......Wright......Roy(even though I don't think so)......Calipari......Few.....Self.....

PS....."Status" does not mean you are.....

But right In that grouping.....

I don't think UCLA has "graft" unfortunately to land a coach of his accomplishment.....

Virginia is a great school.....Has great academics.....

I can not speak to his pay or the Virginia facilities......But I can't imagine they are not first class.....

[Cheeks]

I know that Bennett's record is probably worse than Wright's (and losing to a 16-seed has strong pull), but I guess what I'm looking for to change my mind on Bennett is some objective criteria that would help me differentiate from two unlikely things: A several-year run of bad luck at the start of a career vs. a coach who is great at preparing his team and winning games for all but one month of the year.

Not even one month, but one game a year.  In the month of March in the ACC Tournament he has won the tournament three times.  Has done very well in one and done competition against some of the best teams in the nation. 

This is also ignored by some here. 

[lawdog77]

Not even one month, but one game a year.  In the month of March in the ACC Tournament he has won the tournament three times.  Has done very well in one and done competition against some of the best teams in the nation. 

This is also ignored by some here.

Isn't the ACC Tourney a crapshoot too?

[rocket surgeon]

The thing about the “dance” and I think cheeks alluded to this somewhat in here, doing well is all about match ups.  Initially, getting a better seed increases ones chances of moving on.  After that, it depends on “upsets” that can shake up a whole bracket.  Then it’s about matchups.  Exhibit A-st Johns, even though most would say we are a better team overall, it has been proven this year that we have had trouble matching up with them.  Hence, home and home losses.  If we were/are to face them a 3rd time, I’m hoping wojo has figured them out and we kick their arse. 

    Otherwise, good coaches have the dudes who can matchup and perform against most teams.  Getting the right combination of players vs theirs.  This may happen to be Matt heldt getting 15 minutes instead of 2 for example.  Or Cain with chartouny at opportune times.  And obviously It comes down to the players executing for him. To win it all, many times takes the perfect storm where everyone is clicking and having the games of their lives at the same time.